Why spend $$$ on a flowering lamp if you have a $ veg lamp?

[Prawn Connery]

I never said it wasn't the most efficient form of growing. Never questioned it. In fact you have me on record now agreeing. Of course it is. (I've never thought otherwise actually)

Good. Then you now understand - or, if I'm lucky, might even agree - that you can actually yield large amounts of cannabis WITH NO VEG TIME AT ALL!

Now let's extrapolate that to any other grow, and you will see why, depending on plant numbers, the more plants you have, the less time you need to veg them for a given yield under a given light source, in a given space. Everything is about metrics.

And the bit about taller plants yielding more than shorter plants . . . tell that one to the SCROG - because most scrogs have very little canopy under the main canopy which is quite often only a foot or so deep.

 

[ANC]

Dunno man, I'm running SOG, and the buds seem to be coming along nicely on account of each being attached to a thick branch with its own roots.I don't veg any longer than it takes for the roots to make it through the rockwool.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Over time it will because less time spent in veg. That's why I said kWh and not kW.

Correct. Faster cycles. No veg time.

Root transport is more efficient, as shorter distances to transport nutrients. Root mass is larger compared to plant size. Roots don't need to consume as much energy - or time - developing to feed one plant and remote branches.

There's a little more to it, but past my bed time . . .

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Using reservoirs in an apt complex also has the "advantage" of your landlord/building manager entering the premises without warning .......leaks can get you busted, stick to soil for safety imo..

 

[Prawn Connery]

Using reservoirs in an apt complex also has the "advantage" of your landlord/building manager entering the premises without warning .......leaks can get you busted, stick to soil for safety imo..

Or grow in the laundry/bathroom etc, where there is a drain

 

[Prawn Connery]

Dunno man, I'm running SOG, and the buds seem to be coming along nicely on account of each being attached to a thick branch with its own roots.I don't veg any longer than it takes for the roots to make it through the rockwool.

You beat me to it. This thread is flying along for a Thursday . . .

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Or grow in the laundry/bathroom etc, where there is a drain

very stealthy locations......lol

 

[churchhaze]

@Prawn Connery Just to clear things up, because now people area confusing arguments:

Do you think that on an absolute basis (per grow) that a full canopy of plants with no veg time will tend to yield the same or more than a full canopy of plants with excessive veg time?

Yes or no. If you're not arguing this, please specify.

 

[cannabineer]

You beat me to it. This thread is flying along for a Thursday . . .

Are you in Aus or NZ? It's Wednesday in the western US.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Whose LED lights would you recommend? I am bewildered by wattage numbers etc.

Sorry, trying to keep up with all the posts, LOL!

I like LED strips, because you can tailor them to your needs and get very even coverage by spacing them out. They're not too expensive, and you can mount to them to easily bought aluminium U-channel.

LED boards - like HLG's Quantum Boards (to name just one brand) are pretty convenient, and lot easier to mount than strips, as they can come with their own heatsinks. Most of thee set-ups are not enclosed and do require a little bit of wiring - of only to strip wires and plug them into the connectors.

If you want a plug-and-play system, there are a few around such as ChilLed and BC Blondes. I haven't used them - and they are pricier than building your own - but if you're that way inclined, I'd be looking at LED strip and panel type enclosed lights. There are a few other brands I can't think of off the top of my head.

 

[ANC]

I run a 52 day strain which is just shy of 8 weeks.
Cutting the 21-day veg off reduces my time from cutting a clone to harvesting by 29%
I bet I could take a fractional loss of yield and still come out ahead.

 

[Prawn Connery]

very stealthy locations......lol

We are talking about an apartment grow - there aren't many stealthy options. Where I live, landlords cannot, by law, just enter your apartment. They must give you notice. I grew in a hot water heater enclosure that had a drain for just such an occasion (leaking hot water system). I'm sure you can use your imagination.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Are you in Aus or NZ? It's Wednesday in the western US.

Oz.

 

[cannabineer]

Sorry, trying to keep up with all the posts, LOL!

I like LED strips, because you can tailor them to your needs and get very even coverage by spacing them out. They're not too expensive, and you can mount to them to easily bought aluminium U-channel.

LED boards - like HLG's Quantum Boards (to name just one brand) are pretty convenient, and lot easier to mount than strips, as they can come with their own heatsinks. Most of thee set-ups are not enclosed and do require a little bit of wiring - of only to strip wires and plug them into the connectors.

If you want a plug-and-play system, there are a few around such as ChilLed and BC Blondes. I haven't used them - and they are pricier than building your own - but if you're that way inclined, I'd be looking at LED strip and panel type enclosed lights. There are a few other brands I can't think of off the top of my head.

I recently saw a light from a firm called Timber. Pretty, but expensive.

There are arcana about potential watts, actual watts, how hard (volts) to drive the components. I am intimidated by all that and am waiting for cheap, efficient and reliable white LEDs. I believe that LED is the future but have zero inclination for DIY.

 

[ANC]

what really struck me doing sog clones, was how healthy they are deep into flower still
Them being around such a short time allows less time for problems to develop.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

We are talking about an apartment grow - there aren't many stealthy options. Where I live, landlords cannot, by law, just enter your apartment. They must give you notice. I grew in a hot water heater enclosure that had a drain for just such an occasion (leaking hot water system). I'm sure you can use your imagination.

It's called a walk in closet, plenty in apts that I rented..... No warrant, no warning, even if tenant is off premises they can enter by law for a flood/leak (property damage)in the US.

 

[churchhaze]

In that case I am confused. What is the efficiency argument for non-SOG?

Okay, let me clear it up for you. There wasn't an argument for non-SOG. @Prawn Connery on multiple occasions has argued that a longer veg time won't result in a higher yield after the canopy is full and I refuted that argument. It's really that simple.

 

[Prawn Connery]

@Prawn Connery Just to clear things up, because now people area confusing arguments:

Do you think that on an absolute basis (per grow) that a full canopy of plants with no veg time will tend to yield the same or more than a full canopy of plants with excessive veg time?

Yes or no. If you're not arguing this, please specify.

You need to read that thread I linked to, as all the answers are there.

What I'm saying - surprise, surprise - is that your total yield will be limited to the optimum amount of light over a given space, all else being equal. It does not matter how you achieve that - SOG, SCROG, single-plant tree - your yield is limited to the total amount of energy you put into it at the optimal light intensity for that particular strain. Optimal light intensity - in terms of even coverage - will determine how much space you need.

If you have excess foliage, that which does not receive enough light intensity will not develop and may eventually die.

If you have a paucity of foliage, you will waste light energy on areas that are not lit, and you will not achieve maximum yield.

Is this concept that hard to understand? I know it confuses a lot of people who think more veg equals more yield, but in the real world - and I am basing this on the hundreds, if not thousands of cannabis plants I have grown in my life - your flowering light determines your maximum yield. Full stop.

 

[cannabineer]

Okay, let me clear it up for you. There wasn't an argument for non-SOG. @Prawn Connery on multiple occasions has argued that a longer veg time won't result in a higher yield after the canopy is full and I refuted that argument. It's really that simple.

Once the canopy is full, I see little potential for higher yields. So I see that you denied it, but refutation requires a conclusive argument. I am not convinced.

 

[churchhaze]

Once the canopy is full, I see little potential for higher yields. So I see that you denied it, but refutation requires a conclusive argument. I am not convinced.

So you think that more veg time won't give you higher yields then? There are only 2 answers to this. Yes or no.