Applying Silver Nitrate & Sodium Thiosulfate Mixture for Fem Pollen

[Daniel Lawton]

Surprising. I'll add that to my list of things that can happen.

I plan to design a more stable STS system soon, because I'm cloning seeds. Maybe once I have that and can try cloning seeds on every grow, I'll test the runoff theory a bit. I know for a fact none of the seed varieties I have tend to go herme.

My seed goal is reliably < 12" autoflower seeds, with Northern Lights and Amnesia Haze being prime candidates.

My strategy on the STS is to keep the silver nitrate and sodium thiosulfate solutions separated in bottles with an eye dropper, and only mix enough for a single plant, when needed.

I'm pretty sure both solutions are stable if you keep them away from light, like in the fridge.

Even cooler would be to get a Dave's Adjustable Hot Sauce bottle, which mixes according to how you set it when you spray your food. If that would work for STS, it'd be pretty neat.

Ok, you have to be high to appreciate that design. And someone might spray their nachos by accident.

 

[xtsho]

Surprising. I'll add that to my list of things that can happen.

I plan to design a more stable STS system soon, because I'm cloning seeds. Maybe once I have that and can try cloning seeds on every grow, I'll test the runoff theory a bit. I know for a fact none of the seed varieties I have tend to go herme.

My seed goal is reliably < 12" autoflower seeds, with Northern Lights and Amnesia Haze being prime candidates.

My strategy on the STS is to keep the silver nitrate and sodium thiosulfate solutions separated in bottles with an eye dropper, and only mix enough for a single plant, when needed.

I'm pretty sure both solutions are stable if you keep them away from light, like in the fridge.

Even cooler would be to get a Dave's Adjustable Hot Sauce bottle, which mixes according to how you set it when you spray your food. If that would work for STS, it'd be pretty neat.

Ok, you have to be high to appreciate that design. And someone might spray their nachos by accident.
View attachment 4017118

Ha ha ha
It would probably work.

 

[Daniel Lawton]

It would probably work.

Especially since mixing those chemicals is a rather odd process. If you watch them mix very slowly, several things seem to be happening in sequence. That combination is even used as a "science demonstration" in schools.

The only thing that worries me about the sprayer is what happens at the nozzle. Will it clog up?

But just because it's funny, I think I'll actually do it. If it worked and the solutions were stable, it's a good ebay product.

 

[Daniel Lawton]

Bad news on the Dave's. Discontinued. But very good news, you can buy those empty! And they promise to mix equal amounts of liquid from both sides. Figuring how much chemicals to put in the water is pretty easy, and fortunately the final solutions are very dilute.

Here's a pic of the bottle.

 

[xtsho]

Bad news on the Dave's. Discontinued. But very good news, you can buy those empty! And they promise to mix equal amounts of liquid from both sides. Figuring how much chemicals to put in the water is pretty easy, and fortunately the final solutions are very dilute.

Here's a pic of the bottle.

View attachment 4017862

Cool. I'm going to be mixing up some solution in the near future for another couple of crosses I plan on making. My friends are going to like their Christmas presents.

 

[javierherredia]

Have you tried the basic colloidal silver method ? It is alot less toxic and less involved. I can tell you first hand it works quite well with non hermaphroditic female genetics.

Have you tried the basic colloidal silver method ? It is alot less toxic and less involved. I can tell you first hand it works quite well with non hermaphroditic female genetics.

I’ve tried the colloidal silver but I only sprayed up to day 23. Did you buy colloidal silver online or make your own?

 

[Daniel Lawton]

I've read that online colloidal contains additives to keep it stable. Also, some say it tends to burn leaves, giving the impression colloidal always does that.

If you make your own, it won't burn leaves. After a couple of weeks of spraying some might look a little unhappy, but it'll be the older leaves.

If you make some, I highly recommend the 24VAC method. 2 spirals of silver wire (thinner) held apart by plastic pieces, with 24VAC directly through them. Reduce amount made to 150ml in a beaker, there's no reason to be making mason jars of it, it only takes longer.

The 24VAC method makes beautiful deep yellow colloidal in 3 days, with no loss of silver from fuzz or electroplate crystals. A laser shined through it is smoother than the DC methods, and doesn't show all the "sparklers" indicating larger colloids.

DC methods require you to wipe fuzz from the positive electrode, and the negative electrode can grow electroplate crystals if you try to turn the voltage down low enough to eliminate the positive terminal fuzz. Fuzz is reduced below 1.5V, but you'll still get electroplate losses. I saw them even at 1VDC, which is why I gave up and stuck with 24VAC.

The 24VAC has none of those silver losses and can be left unattended. Just don't short the wires together or you'll blow the fuse in the 24VAC adapter.

Best sprayer I've seen is the hydrogen peroxide sprayers you can buy at CVS. They hold the 150ml, and the sprayer is better than most you can buy separately.

 

[Gunshyb]

Sorry to bring up old thread but this one has been linked to several times and is very informative.

Can anyone send or PM a source for the silver nitrate used in STS method (where to get)?

 

[xtsho]

Depends what country you're in as some have different restrictions on chemicals. I'm in the USA and got mine off of Amazon.

There are two types of the Sodium Thiosulfate and you want to get the "Anhydrous". NA2S2O3

Silver Nitrate
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018Y3QBXE

Sodium Thiosulfate, Anhydrous Na2S2O3
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I5R1UU4

 

[Daniel Lawton]

I gave up on this method. I have a thread on a 24VAC colloidal silver making coil. You can run it 24/7 for a full year, and you won't be able to measure any loss in the electrodes (with .01g accuracy). Makes no fuzz, no electroplate crystals floating on the top, it's so clean it needs no filtering, and works like crazy on the plants. Just let the machinie run always, and put more distilled water in it when it evaporates. The only side effect is that if you keep it going always, the glass beaker tends to turn shiny like a mirror.

So I prefer colloidal silver now. On the other hand, my sister was the head of a plant department at UC Davis, and she said there's much easier ways to turn a plant female than the colloidal silver. So I guess the chemicals are what professionals use.

I just had no luck at all with it, either combining in a spray, or mixing ahead of time. Didn't work.

For people making seeds: If you spend the money for good soil and grow a plant in a pot, it turns out, all you need to do is toss in a tablespoon of Osmocote, and you can keep growing in that soil for several generations. I'm up to 6 and just today harvested a few very nice autoflowers.

I don't even take out the old root. I just cut it off, and put a new plant to the side of it.

The result is likely a little weaker, but if you're making kief or oil, that balances out with how little effort it takes to put the next plant in there.

(If you make your own seeds that is).

 

[xtsho]

I gave up on this method. I have a thread on a 24VAC colloidal silver making coil. You can run it 24/7 for a full year, and you won't be able to measure any loss in the electrodes (with .01g accuracy). Makes no fuzz, no electroplate crystals floating on the top, it's so clean it needs no filtering, and works like crazy on the plants. Just let the machinie run always, and put more distilled water in it when it evaporates. The only side effect is that if you keep it going always, the glass beaker tends to turn shiny like a mirror.

So I prefer colloidal silver now. On the other hand, my sister was the head of a plant department at UC Davis, and she said there's much easier ways to turn a plant female than the colloidal silver. So I guess the chemicals are what professionals use.

I just had no luck at all with it, either combining in a spray, or mixing ahead of time. Didn't work.

For people making seeds: If you spend the money for good soil and grow a plant in a pot, it turns out, all you need to do is toss in a tablespoon of Osmocote, and you can keep growing in that soil for several generations. I'm up to 6 and just today harvested a few very nice autoflowers.

I don't even take out the old root. I just cut it off, and put a new plant to the side of it.

The result is likely a little weaker, but if you're making kief or oil, that balances out with how little effort it takes to put the next plant in there.

(If you make your own seeds that is).

That's odd that you didn't get results from this method. I had been using the colloidal silver method successfully but tried this method and haven't gone back. Are you sure you mixed the solution correctly?

 

[Daniel Lawton]

Are you sure you mixed the solution correctly?

I might not have mixed the solutions as slowly as the instructions stated. As I recall, it's not just 1 reaction. It's at least 2. Some people use it for a chemistry demonstration, about precipitates.

 

[Strainwyze]

Can't beat sts!

 

[Daniel Lawton]

Ok, I'll give it another chance. Still have the chemicals in the fridge. So remind me, is it better at converting just one branch, than the colloidal method?

I have an unknown seed soemone found in some high quality weed. When it grew out, it had an amazing trichome count.

I crossed it with (female pollen) Amnesia Haze, trying to make a new autoflower with higher trichome counts. Then I figure I'll grow the seeds, convert the branches on each, and select the one that ends up with the best growth pattern. But to do that efficiently I need to convert just one branch on each. (Plus I'd like to keep the pot that isn't converted!)

Does that sound doable with sts? Converting just one branch with colloidal is hit and miss.

 

[whitebb2727]

If using DC, the sub 1 volt chargers work great. 1-3 volt works great as well. No fuzz.

 

[Daniel Lawton]

If using DC, the sub 1 volt chargers work great. 1-3 volt works great as well. No fuzz.

That's true, I tested .25V to 7V looking for the sweet spot. Fuzz seems to start above 1.5V, but where exactly is very hard to tell.

1V indeed has no fuzz, but then it produces electroplate crystals floating on the top. So you have electrode loss from another source.

It works like this: you're really electroplating (poorly). If you exceed 1.5 volts or so, you get "electrode burn" as it's called in the industry. If you avoid that, you are electroplating. Most of the crystals formed will go to the other electrode, but some will float off and rise to the surface, where they'll continue to form sheets of silver. And you get electrode loss. Over time, you'll have to replace the electrode.

With AC, it seems that any electroplating goes evenly to both electrodes. I've even see t he 24VAC clean up a beaker that had stray silver in it, from trying the DC method.

It also seems to make smaller colloids than the DC method. But the very best part is, you can leave it on all the time. Never need to turn it off. It reaches some kind of equilibrium. The only thing you have to worry about is evaporation. Full evaporation will deposit the colloidals on the inside of the beaker, forming a mirror.

Fortunately, it's an unmeasurable amount of silver (with my .01g scale).

One warning: Don't short the 24VAC leads, you'll blow the transformers fuse. Also, put it on a Mr. Coffee heater pad and it's 3 times faster. If you don't prime the water and it's room temp, it can take up to a week to make it strong enough for the laser.

Also, don't try to make a huge amount. Stick with 500ml beakers, or even better, 250ml. It's all about wire outside surface area relative to the amount of liquid.

And the 24VAC method is much slower than the DC, so it's critical not to try to make a huge amount at a time.

 

[whitebb2727]

That's true, I tested .25V to 7V looking for the sweet spot. Fuzz seems to start above 1.5V, but where exactly is very hard to tell.

1V indeed has no fuzz, but then it produces electroplate crystals floating on the top. So you have electrode loss from another source.

It works like this: you're really electroplating (poorly). If you exceed 1.5 volts or so, you get "electrode burn" as it's called in the industry. If you avoid that, you are electroplating. Most of the crystals formed will go to the other electrode, but some will float off and rise to the surface, where they'll continue to form sheets of silver. And you get electrode loss. Over time, you'll have to replace the electrode.

With AC, it seems that any electroplating goes evenly to both electrodes. I've even see t he 24VAC clean up a beaker that had stray silver in it, from trying the DC method.

It also seems to make smaller colloids than the DC method. But the very best part is, you can leave it on all the time. Never need to turn it off. It reaches some kind of equilibrium. The only thing you have to worry about is evaporation. Full evaporation will deposit the colloidals on the inside of the beaker, forming a mirror.

Fortunately, it's an unmeasurable amount of silver (with my .01g scale).

One warning: Don't short the 24VAC leads, you'll blow the transformers fuse. Also, put it on a Mr. Coffee heater pad and it's 3 times faster. If you don't prime the water and it's room temp, it can take up to a week to make it strong enough for the laser.

Also, don't try to make a huge amount. Stick with 500ml beakers, or even better, 250ml. It's all about wire outside surface area relative to the amount of liquid.

And the 24VAC method is much slower than the DC, so it's critical not to try to make a huge amount at a time.

I say the ac does work better. I just mention the DC cell chargers at sub 1 volt because they are easy to get.

I'm not really worried about electrode loss. 5 foot of silver Jewelers wire was just a few bucks on Amazon.

 

[Daniel Lawton]

I just mention the DC cell chargers at sub 1 volt because they are easy to get.

No doubt. 24VAC power supplies are hard to get these days, with Radio Shack gone.

And if you don't mind losing some electrode, DC is much easier. I'd have guessed at 1V as likely the best DC voltage also, after all the testing I did.

 

[Strainwyze]

Hey i know its off topic but can i use a quickstart t8 flouro digi ballast to run LEDs Somehow ?

 

[Daniel Lawton]

I sure don't know. But there are some very good E26 LED bulbs out there, putting out a true 19 watts, for around $15.

All of the brands I've tested (10) eventually break however. The driver chip breaks, not the leds (which is typical).

They're very nice while they're working, especially if your plant is an autoflower. Leave just one pointing at the plant 24/7 and it'll beat sunlight.