Organic no till, probiotic, knf, jadam, vermicomposting, soil mixes, sips etc... Q & A

[hyroot]

For cal-phos I forgot to add if you're a using animal bones you want it charred black. Cooked over an open flame for few hours. In the oven or skillet it will take a week.... if you don't have a fire pit. You can always pick up some down to earth fish bone meal. It's already processed. Crustacean meal works too. Both have cal-phos.

 

[Mary's Confidant]

CAL-PHOS

1.Collect a bunch of eggshells and wash to remove inside filaments. Remember, you can also use bones and other good sources of calcium like seashells, clams and oysters, etc. Likewise, if you only want calcium, even limestone can be used, or simple lime. Egg shells for soluble calcium. Animal bones for soluble phos.

2. Pan fry the eggshells or bones. Fry until some are brown/black, some white. The burnt shells are your Calcium source while the white are the Phosphorus source.

3.After roasting the eggshells or bones, grind them up. You can do it manually, with a mortar and pestle, throw them in a blender or electric coffee grinder, etc.

4. Add them to a jar and add 5 parts vinegar by volume. For example, if you have 1 cup ground shells, add 5 cups vinegar.

The acid in the vinegar helps digest them. You will notice bubbling as this process converts the ingredients to liquid calcium phosphate.

5. Wait until tiny bubbles disappear

6. Seal the jar and ferment for 20 days.

7. Filter into another jar

8. Now you’ve made your own Calcium Phosphate

NOW :How to Use

Mix 1 tbsp per gallon

Plants

Spray on leaves during transition phase to flower, and when fruits are large and mature

Transition Phase: Induces flowering, eases nutrient demands of transition phase, strengthens flowers

Mature Fruit: Strengthens plant stems, leaves, fruits, helps fruit mature properly for optimum sweet flavor.

You can also skip the vinegar and compost the cal-phos and feed them to worms. Then you will have compost with phos solublizing enzymes and high phos compost.

Hey Hyroot, thanks for offering these recipes.

Should I cook the eggshells until they are darker next time?


Two dozen eggshells made about a half cup


This is what the initial bloom looks like after adding vinegar (added 2.5 cups for my .5 cups of crushed/roasted eggshells)

This is about 10-20 mins later, is this what it should look like before being capped/fermented?


Please offer any feedback. I thought the smell was bad when cooking the eggshells but the smell after adding the vinegar:

 

[hyroot]

Hey Hyroot, thanks for offering these recipes.

Should I cook the eggshells until they are darker next time?

View attachment 4208409
Two dozen eggshells made about a half cup
View attachment 4208410

This is what the initial bloom looks like after adding vinegar (added 2.5 cups for my .5 cups of crushed/roasted eggshells)
View attachment 4208411
This is about 10-20 mins later, is this what it should look like before being capped/fermented?
View attachment 4208412

Please offer any feedback. I thought the smell was bad when cooking the eggshells but the smell after adding the vinegar:

Egg shells are 97% calcium carbonate and 3% calcium phosphate.

You want to char the egg shells for calcium. Uncooked for phos.

Mine gets that reaction with egg shells but not animal bones

Here I just started a wcap with chicken bones.

1. I removed all the meat. Boiled the bones for 40 min.

2. Then washed the bones with soap and hot water.

3. Then I boiled the bones for 20 min

4. Then laid out the bones on a baking sheet and set them outside for 12 days to dry out until the middle sized ones were able to easily snap. Temps here have been 85°-.95° F during the day.

I didn't takes pics of boiling and cleaning.

After the bonws had dried out




5. I warmed up the bbq as hot as i could get it. Almost 500°. F Put the baking sheet of bones on the bbq for 2 1/2 hours. For the first 30 minutes there was tons of smoke. DO NO DO THIS INDOORS! Like with an oven or skillet.

It smelled just like burnt charred food.



6. Then easily pulverized the bones with a mortar and pestle.




7. I poured the bone meal into a food grade plastic bottle and added the vinegar. ( I gave away all my jars and haven't got new ones yet).

3/4 cup bone meal : 3 3/4 cups vinegar



8. I sealed the lid with an airlock to allow co2 to escape but not to let any contaminants get into the bottle.

 

[projectinfo]

Still reading.

Glad this thread is still going.

@hyroot , man thanks for laying this out for everyone

Are you guys all going from seed every time or just cut a new clone sized hole next to the old stem?

Id like to veg these a little befor putting then into flower, also id like a chance to remove the males.

Im asking because i keep my room in flower all the time and veg in a tent so it wouldnt make much sense to be starting seeds @12hrs light

 

[projectinfo]

@hyroot, really interested to know why to choose soma box with no drains vs sips where you can remove the lower res?

Can you pots some pics of the setup or what your using? The flower and tutorials are on point.

Read the thread and currently re reading your posts specifically, i foundout you can search within a thread for a username. Cuts out alot of.. . well . these kind of posts

Also wandering if you guys ever clean where the water sits.... Id be scared it would get slimy and smelly like hydro if you dont clean everything

 

[hyroot]

@hyroot, really interested to know why to choose soma box with no drains vs sips where you can remove the lower res?

Can you pots some pics of the setup ot the what your using? The flower and tutorials are on point.

Read the thread and currently re reading your posts specifically, i foundout you can search within a thread for a username. Cuts out alot of.. . well . these kind of posts

Also wandering if you guys ever clean where the water sits.... Id be scared it would get slimy and smelly like hydro if you dont clean everything

My soma sip does have a drain out the side. 1/2 inch hole with pvc sticking out.

Adding labs or em1 to the resi when filled with water keeps water cleaner and kills of any pathogens. Azos will kill off algae

 

[hyroot]

Still reading.

Glad this thread is still going.

@hyroot , man thanks for laying this out for everyone

Are you guys all going from seed every time or just cut a new clone sized hole next to the old stem?

Id like to veg these a little befor putting then into flower, also id like a chance to remove the males.

Im asking because i keep my room in flower all the time and veg in a tent so it wouldnt make much sense to be starting seeds @12hrs light

Seed and clone. I veg in 2 and 3 gal pots before transplanting. My veg space is 7 x 5 and my flower space is 12x 8. I veg for 6-8 weeeks from clone and 3 months from seed. I do start seeds and clones in party cups. After I transplant into final pots in the flower room, I still veg for another 2 - 3 weeks. I run the whole flower room on the sane schedule. More perpetua batchesl can be done. My veg space doesn't allow fot that.

 

[projectinfo]

My soma sip does have a drain out the side. 1/2 inch hole with pvc sticking out.

Adding labs or em1 to the resi when filled with water keeps water cleaner and kills of any pathogens. Azos will kill off algae

You dont use an airstone in your res eh?

Do you alwase keep your res topped up or let it dry out befor adding more to it?

Can you remove the res portion from your soma box ?

Do you just reuse the soil and box for years without cleaning the res or pipes ?

Im coming from hydro where you need to clean things very regularly, and standing water means root rot you know

You have a long veg time, how tall when you put them into flower?


I have a 7 ft cieling so im thinking 2 plants per 25gal and flower at 14-20 inches.

 

[Strudelheim]

CAL-PHOS

1.Collect a bunch of eggshells and wash to remove inside filaments. Remember, you can also use bones and other good sources of calcium like seashells, clams and oysters, etc. Likewise, if you only want calcium, even limestone can be used, or simple lime. Egg shells for soluble calcium. Animal bones for soluble phos.

2. Pan fry the eggshells or bones. Fry until some are brown/black, some white. The burnt shells are your Calcium source while the white are the Phosphorus source.

3.After roasting the eggshells or bones, grind them up. You can do it manually, with a mortar and pestle, throw them in a blender or electric coffee grinder, etc.

4. Add them to a jar and add 5 parts vinegar by volume. For example, if you have 1 cup ground shells, add 5 cups vinegar.

The acid in the vinegar helps digest them. You will notice bubbling as this process converts the ingredients to liquid calcium phosphate.

5. Wait until tiny bubbles disappear

6. Seal the jar and ferment for 20 days.

7. Filter into another jar

8. Now you’ve made your own Calcium Phosphate

NOW :How to Use

Mix 1 tbsp per gallon

Plants

Spray on leaves during transition phase to flower, and when fruits are large and mature

Transition Phase: Induces flowering, eases nutrient demands of transition phase, strengthens flowers

Mature Fruit: Strengthens plant stems, leaves, fruits, helps fruit mature properly for optimum sweet flavor.

You can also skip the vinegar and compost the cal-phos and feed them to worms. Then you will have compost with phos solublizing enzymes and high phos compost.

So basically I can skip this whole process by simply composting my egg shells? I compost about 1000 eggshells a year, in a final amount of about 6 cubic feet of compost. I use this at a rate of 33% to make my bedding base for the worm bins. thanks

 

[Ecompost]

Egg shells are 97% calcium carbonate and 3% calcium phosphate.

You want to char the egg shells for calcium. Uncooked for phos.

Mine gets that reaction with egg shells but not animal bones

Here I just started a wcap with chicken bones.

1. I removed all the meat. Boiled the bones for 40 min.

2. Then washed the bones with soap and hot water.

3. Then I boiled the bones for 20 min

4. Then laid out the bones on a baking sheet and set them outside for 12 days to dry out until the middle sized ones were able to easily snap. Temps here have been 85°-.95° F during the day.

I didn't takes pics of boiling and cleaning.

After the bonws had dried out

View attachment 4213397


5. I warmed up the bbq as hot as i could get it. Almost 500°. F Put the baking sheet of bones on the bbq for 2 1/2 hours. For the first 30 minutes there was tons of smoke. DO NO DO THIS INDOORS! Like with an oven or skillet.

It smelled just like burnt charred food.

View attachment 4213399

6. Then easily pulverized the bones with a mortar and pestle.

View attachment 4213408


7. I poured the bone meal into a food grade plastic bottle and added the vinegar. ( I gave away all my jars and haven't got new ones yet).

3/4 cup bone meal : 3 3/4 cups vinegar

View attachment 4213409

8. I sealed the lid with an airlock to allow co2 to escape but not to let any contaminants get into the bottle.

View attachment 4213410

Yo bro nice one, have you ever heard of Super magro? May be you ought to look in to it, if you can do this you can make super magro bio fertilizer too buddy, few more process and bit more time but its easy peasy really and since its open source, you ought to be able to find a method and kit list, just got to get the components and hardware which is all basic stuff like tanks and buckets and blah and have the time

 

[hyroot]

You dont use an airstone in your res eh?

Do you alwase keep your res topped up or let it dry out befor adding more to it?

Can you remove the res portion from your soma box ?

Do you just reuse the soil and box for years without cleaning the res or pipes ?

Im coming from hydro where you need to clean things very regularly, and standing water means root rot you know

You have a long veg time, how tall when you put them into flower?


I have a 7 ft cieling so im thinking 2 plants per 25gal and flower at 14-20 inches.

I let the resi dry out or just get low before adding water.

I do reuse the soil and box for years. My soil is over 8 or 9 years old. No issues. I add a splash of lab to the resi once a week whether it's time ti fill it or not. Lab or em1 is a bacterial inoculant that kills off pathogens and improves yeilds, growth, and water uptake. Root rot won't happen as long as you add that to the resi.

Lab is lactobacillus and em1 is lactobacillus plus more yeasts and purple non sulfur bacteria.

I don't use air stones. I used to when I first started running sips a few years ago. It makes the roots explode but thats about it. I found keeping it anaerobic produced better results and larger yields and larger buds. With sips we're just trying to mimic nature.

I have high ceilings so height isn't an issue for me. I usually scrog my plants so they just fill out the trellis and maybe end up about 2 - 3 feet above the trellis.

 

[hyroot]

So basically I can skip this whole process by simply composting my egg shells? I compost about 1000 eggshells a year, in a final amount of about 6 cubic feet of compost. I use this at a rate of 33% to make my bedding base for the worm bins. thanks

Yes but charring them first to get solubilozing enzymes. Egg shells for calcium and animal bones for phos.

 

[hyroot]

Yo bro nice one, have you ever heard of Super magro? May be you ought to look in to it, if you can do this you can make super magro bio fertilizer too buddy, few more process and bit more time but its easy peasy really and since its open source, you ought to be able to find a method and kit list, just got to get the components and hardware which is all basic stuff like tanks and buckets and blah and have the time

Its all in Spanish. I don't read or speak spanish.

I just follow and use.different recipes from Korean natural farming, jadam natural farming, and kyusei natural farming. Which is all basically making biofertz via ferments. Utilizing either sugar, lactobacillus, or leaf mold compost to ferment milk, plants, fruits, grains, egg shells, and or bone meal..

 

[projectinfo]

http://www.gaiagreen.com/livingsoil.html

Instead of starting off cooking soil fora month, with the clackamas coots mix


Could i just use this and hold off feeding until next round because to many amendments added?

Is there anything wrong with starting off with a hot mix for living soil in soma sip boxes?

I just dont have the space or time to mix my soil for a month and its coming up on winter here .

 

[projectinfo]

Also im trying to figure out the difference between subcools supersoil witha bubch of amendments in it .

Vs clackamas coots pretty basic and you hust topdress and feed ferments , castings composts more?

After a run with this hot soil, would it be basically a coots mix that i could start following hyroots thread here?

 

[hyroot]

http://www.gaiagreen.com/livingsoil.html

Instead of starting off cooking soil fora month, with the clackamas coots mix


Could i just use this and hold off feeding until next round because to many amendments added?

Is there anything wrong with starting off with a hot mix for living soil in soma sip boxes?

I just dont have the space or time to mix my soil for a month and its coming up on winter here .

That will still have to be broken down ie cook.


You don't want hot soil. It will fry your plants. Making the leaves taco like crazy and slow.growth.

Coots mix doesn't really run hot because it doesn't have any high nitrogen inputs nor any bone meal. If you add bokashi or grokashi to the soil and spray soil with lab or em1. It will speed up cook time by 2 weeks. Adding red wiggler worms will.speed things up too.

 

[hyroot]

Also im trying to figure out the difference between subcools supersoil witha bubch of amendments in it .

Vs clackamas coots pretty basic and you hust topdress and feed ferments , castings composts more?

After a run with this hot soil, would it be basically a coots mix that i could start following hyroots thread here?

Subcools super soil is hot mix that is very redundant. It has multiple inputs that have the same elements and minerals which isn't necessary at all either. Subcool never took the time to learn about soil microbiology and what plants can actually uptake. He just regurgitated someone elses recipe as his own.

 

[Strudelheim]

So basically I can skip this whole process by simply composting my egg shells? I compost about 1000 eggshells a year, in a final amount of about 6 cubic feet of compost.

Also you don't need to wait a month, better is longer to a degree, but the cooking time which is just composting/breaking down of amendments has 2 purposes, one to make nutrients available, if you have ewc in your mix you will already have some soluble nutrients that are available enough to get you going. The second reason time is needed is that the compost process heats up the temp of the mix and this would literally burn your roots.

Im doing a test right now, where I mixed a batch of soil, and because I am all out of mix decided to transplant one plant into it after only 24 hours of it sitting. And its on the richer end of mixes out there.

 

[projectinfo]

Use the flesh and skin of the pumpkin. Toss or compost the stem.. The seeds, cook or make an sst or grow more pumpkins.

EM1 liquid mixed with vegetable and fruits. Then ferment for a week. It will develop into EM2.
EM2 liquid mixed with bran, brown sugar and rice water and ferment for about a week, it will become EM3.
Let ferment for about another week without adding anything. It will become EM4.
Add vinegar and distilled alochol. Then ferment for about another week, it will become EM5

The FPE recipe I'm doing; For flower I'm sticking to using red, yellow, orange fruits. No citrus. Its fermented for 4 weeks total.

For veg I'm using green plants. All my other veggie scraps go to the worm bin.

I'm using labs in my FPE not EM1.

EM1 is the same lacto bacteria in labs plus photsynthetic bacteria and yeast.

Instead of making labs could you activate em1 and use it the same ?

 

[projectinfo]

I have this, and by the ingredients im guessing its just like em1.

Got it from blackswallow living soils,