Why is no-one ever using a Coco/Vermiculite (and some Perlite) Mix?

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flexy123

Well-Known Member
There is very little information on this, IF AT ALL, with the exception of some shroomers who use Coco/Vermi for cultivation.

I have never ever anyone seen making a mix of coco coir WITH VERMICULITE. And Perlite added for drainage/airation.

This is really extremely odd since on paper, Vermiculite seems to be PERFECT to use with Coco, it could even address the issues of Coco grows needing Cal/Mg. (Because Vermiculite "binds" the abundance of potassium and salts that come off coco - which is one reason why it depletes Calcium. Correct me if I am wrong here).

I understand also (looking at some scientific papers) that Vermiculite "attracts" minerals like calcium, it holds and stores them but also gives them off. For me, this sounds ideal to use it with Coco.

I just started an "experimental" grow with 5 parts Coco Coir + 2 parts coarse Vermiculite + 3 parts Perlite. (Simply because I had all this here but didn

30% Perlite is a lot, but I chose so to offset a little with drainage (which Perlite provides) since Coco and Vermiculite really hold LOTS of water. Of course, could be that another percentage of the mix would be better.

Dry mix is VERY light and fluffy. I just started it, so I will see how this goes.

Just wondering why no one ever grows with such a mix? And if someone has, what are your experiences?
 
Daveindiego

Daveindiego

Well-Known Member
How do you mix it up?

In the pot you’re using do you one part coco, 1/3 part Perlite and 2/5 part vermiculite and then mix around in the pot? Or do you have a larger bin that you’d mix it up in, and then disperse to the pot?
 
kingtitan

kingtitan

Well-Known Member
flexy123 said:
There is very little information on this, IF AT ALL, with the exception of some shroomers who use Coco/Vermi for cultivation.

I have never ever anyone seen making a mix of coco coir WITH VERMICULITE. And Perlite added for drainage/airation.

This is really extremely odd since on paper, Vermiculite seems to be PERFECT to use with Coco, it could even address the issues of Coco grows needing Cal/Mg. (Because Vermiculite "binds" the abundance of potassium and salts that come off coco - which is one reason why it depletes Calcium. Correct me if I am wrong here).

I understand also (looking at some scientific papers) that Vermiculite "attracts" minerals like calcium, it holds and stores them but also gives them off. For me, this sounds ideal to use it with Coco.

I just started an "experimental" grow with 5 parts Coco Coir + 2 parts coarse Vermiculite + 3 parts Perlite. (Simply because I had all this here but didn

30% Perlite is a lot, but I chose so to offset a little with drainage (which Perlite provides) since Coco and Vermiculite really hold LOTS of water. Of course, could be that another percentage of the mix would be better.

Dry mix is VERY light and fluffy. I just started it, so I will see how this goes.

Just wondering why no one ever grows with such a mix? And if someone has, what are your experiences?
Click to expand...
Not sure why buy even PRO MIX leaves out the Vermiculite on all the Coco stuff. They must know it doesn't work? maybe it just holds too much moisture? Here is their list of products that contains Coco
http://www.pthorticulture.com/en/products/?line=1218
 
Dr Magill

Dr Magill

Well-Known Member
I think it has something to do with the moisture holding capacity of the vermiculite. Drainage dynamics in container grown plants can be messed up pretty easy. Let us know what you find.
Good luck
 
F

flexy123

Well-Known Member
Daveindiego said:
How do you mix it up?

In the pot you’re using do you one part coco, 1/3 part Perlite and 2/5 part vermiculite and then mix around in the pot? Or do you have a larger bin that you’d mix it up in, and then disperse to the pot?
Click to expand...
This was just for two small/medium sized autos....a 10L bucket to mix was a LITTLE too tiny, so I dumped it all in a large trash bag and simply mixed with my arms,.Many times I also re-use these very large bags that commercial potting mixes come in, also to store stuff like perlite, whatever.
 
F

flexy123

Well-Known Member
So I did ONE stupid mistake in the beginning:

Having been very eager to put my seedlings which are in (tiny!) rockwool cubes into the new mix, I was not waiting until the seedlings reached some good size. (I basically put them in the pots as soon as they sprouted).

What happens is that the surrounding mix that I made (50C-20V-30P) has an extreme wicking ability (despite me watering it), so it draws the water out of the rockwool cubes VERY quickly. I almost killed the seedlings, the cubes dry out within hours. So never put your R/W cubes into ANYTHING unless you really see roots coming out. Stupid rookie mistake. (Seedlings survived, but it was close...)
 
F

flexy123

Well-Known Member
Dr Magill said:
I think it has something to do with the moisture holding capacity of the vermiculite. Drainage dynamics in container grown plants can be messed up pretty easy. Let us know what you find.
Good luck
Click to expand...
Yes this is possible. It CAN well be that despite the 30% Perlite and the mix "out of the bag" being very fluffy that the mix holds moisture longer than I want. (Which of course could mean increased risk for all sorts of problems). Can't say yet, have to wait for some root growth.
 
redman1pimp2

redman1pimp2

Member
flexy123 said:
There is very little information on this, IF AT ALL, with the exception of some shroomers who use Coco/Vermi for cultivation.

I have never ever anyone seen making a mix of coco coir WITH VERMICULITE. And Perlite added for drainage/airation.

This is really extremely odd since on paper, Vermiculite seems to be PERFECT to use with Coco, it could even address the issues of Coco grows needing Cal/Mg. (Because Vermiculite "binds" the abundance of potassium and salts that come off coco - which is one reason why it depletes Calcium. Correct me if I am wrong here).

I understand also (looking at some scientific papers) that Vermiculite "attracts" minerals like calcium, it holds and stores them but also gives them off. For me, this sounds ideal to use it with Coco.

I just started an "experimental" grow with 5 parts Coco Coir + 2 parts coarse Vermiculite + 3 parts Perlite. (Simply because I had all this here but didn

30% Perlite is a lot, but I chose so to offset a little with drainage (which Perlite provides) since Coco and Vermiculite really hold LOTS of water. Of course, could be that another percentage of the mix would be better.

Dry mix is VERY light and fluffy. I just started it, so I will see how this goes.

Just wondering why no one ever grows with such a mix? And if someone has, what are your experiences?
Click to expand...
I am currently running the exact mix you are talking about. So far I haven't had any issues. I'm using 5gl smart pots, it drains well and dries out fluffy so roots can breath.
 

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Sithlord88

Sithlord88

Well-Known Member
No one carries vermiculite anywhere near me anymore. Multiple stores told me it was due to cancer/health related reasons..
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
zypheruk said:
50% Coco and 50% Perlite on one of my previous grows, works like a charm and more suited to drip feeding or flood n drain setups. Vermiculite would be a no go as it just retains more water, and defeats the purpose of coco to start with.
Click to expand...
I used to mix perlite with my coco but found I didn't need it and started growing in just straight coco. Works great.
 
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