The trials and tribulations of Barry "the newb" Bwana's first grow...

[BarryBwana]

Someone who has already given me a lot of good advice suggest I start a thread, so here it goes.

First ever serious grow attempt and germinated in paper towel (2 pineapple kush from royal queen seeds)before transplanting into rockwool(rw) cubes with the intent of doing coco (wanted to prep for learning hydro). Based on good advice now doing soil to learn the basics as coco will have its own steep learning curve. Both seeds, pre germinated, went into the the rw cubes on Saturday morning. Cubes were soaked for roughly 36 hours in a pH 6ish water and after popping the seeds in they went into a sublaster nanodome with a T5 across the lid.

First issues is one stem popped and looked beautiful while the other I could see just the bend of a stem in the rw cube's hole and no more. Sunday morning comes and i have a stretchy seedling and a stem...just a stem... That poor seedling seems to have torn off its cotyledon while bursting out of the rw. Seems this is a result of me trying to minimize the hole's opening or just some bad luck.

Monday morning I put in a baking cooling rack to elevate the seedling and "The Stem" towards the TT5. By Monday evening the seedling is even more stretched but has seemed to stabilized it's vertical growth since.

Tuesday (yesterday) morning I water "The Stem" with a bit of water that has but a tiny smidgen of some General Hydroponics 4-3-3 veg bloom just to see if I can salvage, might as well experiment. I start to germinate via paper towel a Chicle aka BubbleDawg seed by T.H.Seeds.

Today, Wednesday, and I have some potential good news and a bunch of decisions. Hopefully my foibles will garner enough interest that I might get some good advice/feedback as I fumble along.

The good and potential good news? As mentioned the stretching seems to have stopped! I had a new 600watt Viperspectra leaning on my front door waiting for me when I got home (I have a Unit Farm 4x2x6" tent enroute, still need to order carbon filter and fans).......and The Stem looks like it just might be starting to grow some tiny ragged leafs but I might just be seeing what I want to....

Issues:
So I was planning to bury the stretchers stem as a solution but it's in rockwool and that might cause issues due to the medium being soil (different water retention rates)...any one have any experience or advice? So far the backup plan is a support to tie the seedling to for now.

How long until I have to use that 600w LED or risk stunting growth? I'd like to just set it up once in the tent but it might not arrive until Monday.

When should I put the rw cube's in the soil/perlite mix?

Thanks in advance for any feedback!!

 

[Somatek]

Congrats on taking the plunge & good luck with your grow.

First off some seeds germinate as stems without a growing shoot, not often but you'll see it if you grow enough seeds. So it may not have anything to do with you (or it may have, descriptions of plants are a bad way to give advice).

Rockwool will hold more water then coco, so it shouldn't be a problem burying it. There could be a slight increase in root rot if you're over watering but if you keep that in mind & be sure to let it breath untill roots have grown out it'll be fine.

I don't have any experience with LED's but I've never had a problem putting seedlings under HID's so I imagine they'd be fine with LED's. I'll be interested to hear what more experienced people say.

You'll want to transplant when you see root tips starting to pop out the bottom, ideally before they brown.

How are you getting air circulation for the seedlings under the dome? Is there a wee fan we can't see to keep the air moving?

 

[BarryBwana]

Thanks for the reply!

It's going to be soil with perlite instead of coco I think, so I can make the first learning curve more manageable. Still recommend burying the stem? If so, should I keep the soil around the stem dry for a while and just water the edges or is there a better technique to prevent rot and/or promote root development?

I don't have a fan or anything yet( aside from 2 large and one smaller desktop size regular house fans). Should I prioritize getting even a tiny one? I'm intending to purchase a carbon filter with an inline fan for my 2x4x6" tent. Will that suffice for circulation needs?

I become more and more convinced "the stem" is developing leafs!

 

[Somatek]

Thanks for the reply!

It's going to be soil with perlite instead of coco I think, so I can make the first learning curve more manageable. Still recommend burying the stem? If so, should I keep the soil around the stem dry for a while and just water the edges or is there a better technique to prevent rot and/or promote root development?

I don't have a fan or anything yet( aside from 2 large and one smaller desktop size regular house fans). Should I prioritize getting even a tiny one? I'm intending to purchase a carbon filter with an inline fan for my 2x4x6" tent. Will that suffice for circulation needs?

I become more and more convinced "the stem" is developing leafs!

I don't find coco harder then peat, assuming you're using a good quality coco there's not much difference. Same advice though, isn't ideal but shouldn't be a problem.

No need to do anything fancy with watering, just give it a chance to dry between waterings. Plants need air as well as water, letting the soil dry (not to the point of wilting) keeps them healthy. Simple fundamentals work best; water to saturation plus 20% run off & then let it dry as much as possible without wilting.

You don't need to buy a special fan or anything, just take the humidity dome off. Seedlings need air circulation & humidity lower the 70% to prevent damping off. I like to run it around 50-60 ideally.

So the inline fan/carbon filter are the ventilation but a grow room also needs circulation within it to keep plants growing. They don't have lungs/diaphragms to exchange air actively like us, they rely on wind to circulate fresh CO2. If there isn't circulation around a leaf then it'll use all the CO2 in a couple mins & metabolism will slow until there's fresh CO2.

Which is another reason you should take the dome off & get the desk fan blowing on it. The air movement will also help strengthen then stems.

I'll pray to Jebus for the Stem, keep the faith!

 

[SNOLEPERD]

I don't grow in coco, and I don't know if you are growing photoperid or an autoflower, as for your seeds popping, you want to plant at the correct depth, as a rule I plant my seeds twice there length deep, this will give you a nice high pop, you are better off with a high pop than a low pop, with a low pop your leaves will be in the dirt, I just popped dark devel autoflower, the seed was still attached to the head, you correct this by misting your seedlings, my seedlings grew an inch or so out of my pots, a nice high pop, now I use a trick, I take the plastic off a bread tie, now you have a nice little wire, I make a loop in the wire around my seedlings stem and put the other end in the dirt this holds down your seedlings while I heavy stress train, hst, useing a fan and wind, this is not advice take it or leave it, but in my opinion hst your seedlings with wind tricks your seedlings into thinking there new environment is windy and they better lay there roots down fast or they will be blown away, I do this on all my plants photoperid or an autoflower, allso hst gives you a nice thick main stem, as for your seedlings stretching to the light ajust it, if you want me to take a pic of my seedlings wired down I'll take one to show you, I hate to have to top a plant but if your seedlings persist in stretching you can allways top it off, but with good training I ussally find this unnecessary, need anymore help ask, tor friend

 

[BarryBwana]

Updates & pictures!

Took your advice Somatek and took off the dome. I put the peat pellet with the germinated seed (transfered in last night) in a mug with cling wrap covering it under the light....no visible growth yet. I also set up a large house fan to gently shake the seedling with good leafs that stretched which is where the update takes me now.

During the above process I noticed a short n fat taproot coming out the bottom of the rw cube, so I've transfered it into a 5L fabric pit with soil and perlite. I'm kicking myself because during transplant I forgot the root was sticking out and pushed the cube harder than I should have down in the soil. By the time I realized this I had pretty much finished covering up the stem and didn't wanna unbury it to check the root (equal parts cowardice and laziness lol). Not intending to do this I didn't have enough pH'd water to wet it enough for a 20% run off but misted the soil around the stem and poured enough around the edges that the bottom became moist. Hopefully that'll do until I water again (i'll wait for the top half inch of the soil to dry out). I'm waiting until the cotyledon is yellow before I do half strength nuts (General Organics -3-3 BioThrive ( 2years old bottle lol) and this Super Harvest's Super B+ 0-2-1 for stress relief & rooting). Grow store said I could use the Super B+ right away but what do you guys think?

The Stem is slowllllllly building leaves!!! No root poking out yet though but I suspect(well, hope) it's developing those too!

SNOLEPERD I would definitely like to see a picture of how you do that! Stress training is something 100% plan to start learning with this grow thought not sure which of hst or lst is the better starting point for a newbie.

Ps, the last picture of the stretched seedling is what's now buried in that 5L fabric pot. I added it as a reference to show how much stem I buried.

Thanks again guys for any tips or advice!

 

[BarryBwana]

I should add my set up is messy cause it's in a storage area while I wait for my tent to come tomorrow!!!

 

[JohnDee]

Hey Barry...at least you're keeping 'em alive. Hope the stem makes it. The people that have had an issue with buried rockwool were watering such that the cube stayed wet. Messes with roots. But an awareness of the issue and careful watering will compensate.
JD

 

[BarryBwana]

So a week later and things are looking good! The Stem has 4 tiny leaves and this morning got transplanted to a tiny pot and given some light nuts for the second time. The seed I germinated with it just got a watering with nuts for the first time .... 0.25ml of 4-3-3 and 0.2ml of 0-2-1 Super B+ in 500ml of water between the two. I got run off from the stem but didn't want to soak the other yet as its in a 2g fabric pot.

The backup seed is doing great but on the second set of leaves one leaf is severely stunted in comparison to the other..one cotyledon leaf was smaller, covered by seed shell and came off so maybe that's why. This has only gotten water so far and went into a small pot on Wednesday.

Before potting the stem and the back up I had them in an old plastic sour cream container with a clear lead, opening a few times a day and spray g water occasionally /damping the rw cube as needed. Seem to have done the trick and the stem was pushing against the list when I transplanted but I kinda regret not leaving it to see what would happen. Maybe a way to stop stretching without getting to close to the light? That or mess it up

Hey Barry...at least you're keeping 'em alive. Hope the stem makes it. The people that have had an issue with buried rockwool were watering such that the cube stayed wet. Messes with roots. But an awareness of the issue and careful watering will compensate.
JD

Ya, I think I'm going to water around the stem only every other feeding and otherwise just pour aound the edges/ further out than the rw cube for these until they actually fill out the eventual 5g fabric pots I have for them

 

[JohnDee]

until they actually fill out the eventual 5g fabric pots I have for them

Hi Barry...ya you're totally right on that. The rockwool won't be problem as the plant grows...just early on.
JD

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Pull the netting off the pellets when you transplant. Those things stay wet way too long. It's a fast way to over water a seedling. You can also finger a little "Mote" around it so the sides can dry. BIGGEST DEATH OF SEEDLINGS- TOO MUCH WATER. Lookin good!- Love Kills.

 

[hotrodharley]

Next time forget the rockwool. Reading your posts stick to dirt. KISS.

 

[BarryBwana]

My how quickly things can change. The first seedling looks like it's just thriving, but The Stem was wilted when I checked in this morning!!

I've put the bottom of a clear pop bottle over it as a dome but not sure what else to do? Suggestions?

 

[JohnDee]

Barry,
Prop it up. I have to use extra support on perhaps 20% of my seedlings. Yet I feel my tek is good.

Little wood skewer sticks work good or chopsticks (though a little large) and a wire tie. Saved many seedlings that way. If they fall to the ground, they'll rot and die overnight.
JD

 

[SNOLEPERD]

Here is a pick of dark devel wired down while I hst useing a fan and wind, note the nice high pop, you will have to zoom In on the firs pic to see the wire, seedling is now strong enough to stand on it's own but I am still hst and will do so until my main stem hardens, 2nd and 3rd pics are 2 northern lights autoflowers I am running I have been blooming for 1 week, plants are monsters at 42inc, I'm only at day 48 so I have at least a month to fatten my girls up, I hst every plant I grow as for water if I'm drinking it there drinking it, I check my ph, yes you can hst your autos, you can prune them, allways have a fan on you plants at all times when your lights are on, this not only disperse heat it trains your plants while there growing, you don't need a hurricane just a nice breeze, I ran an autoflower at 18 on 6 off and her sister 16 on 8 off the plant I gave a bit more rest came out better so that's what I do most people run autos 18 on 6 off, but note the health of my northern lights, no fade, no burn, no deficiency, no mold spots, no eagle clawing, 2 very healthy plants in bloom, someone called me a fairy tail grower but I have been growing autos under lights constantly for 8 years and 1 month, don't you think I learned a few things about growing these things??? But we use different light, different medium, different methods, different srains, so what works for me may not work for you, but at the end of the day I do fine, don't ask for help beacuse I don't need it, not bragging like I said when you do something constantly for 8 years you either can do it or not, I can do it.

 

[SNOLEPERD]

Sorry that second pic was a week old her she is as of today, day 48, second pic was day 41 sorry.

 

[BarryBwana]

Ok so I propped it up and put it back under the dome. I sprayed the inside of the bottle dome before placing it over the plant for humidity, I live in a very arid climate for the most part.....thanks for the tip about it dieing if it hits the ground JD, it was getting close!

I've had the fan on the biggest seedling quite a bit and then occasionally turn it down. Not hard enough to need wiring(which I plan on experimenting with at some point) but it didn't seem to grow for a while....Until the last few days inwhich, especially after its first light nutes feeding, it looks to be exploding imo

My one concern with that one is maybe the light isn't high enough... I don't think the plants getting hurt by it but does it need more space between it anyways? Worried I might be stunting it's growth despite the Floris hint foliage on it....I've included a birds eye and side shot for anyone who cares to chime in.... thanks again guys!!

 

[Cali Cajun]

Pull the netting off the pellets when you transplant. Those things stay wet way too long. It's a fast way to over water a seedling. You can also finger a little "Mote" around it so the sides can dry. BIGGEST DEATH OF SEEDLINGS- TOO MUCH WATER. Lookin good!- Love Kills.

Ugh - wish I'd heard this before I transplanted. Luckily the plants seem to be doing OK since the transplant, but thanks for the info and I'll cut the net next time I use.

BarryBwana, welcome! I like the name. I'm a new guy too. I also started with 600 watt ViperSpectra, but after doing some research on this and other sites, I decided to return it and got an Horticultral Lighting Group quantum board LED. It was a little more expensive, but I'm happy I made the swap - I'm most of the way through my first grow and my plants are loving the HLG light.

Good luck with your grow, I look forward to seeing how it goes!

 

[SNOLEPERD]

I have an ac on where my plants are, my humidity is running 40per cent, no problems, once your seedlings pop they go thru a rapid little growth spurt and then stop growing slowly up top while they work building there root systems, then they will hit there true growth spurt, during this time you can lst your seedlings with a light breeze, but I hst to get it over with, try and keep things simple, you don't need grow cubes just germanate your bean and put it in the pot you intend to grow in, don't cut corners on medium, make shure you have good drainage these are simple ways to get the job done, you don't need fancy stuff to do these simple things, and like I said I run my autos at 40 to 45 percent humidity no problem a humid room can induce mold.

 

[BarryBwana]

The Stem is dead

The other 2 seedlings look to ve doing very well. Moved them both into a tent with the 600w Viperspectra led at 42inches above them. Gonna water with weak nutes either tomorrow or Sunday but gave em both a few squirter of water around the base to hopefully help adjust to new light. They were watered 2 days ago

This LED has a veg (I believe this is the famous blurple) and flowering switch(reddish light), should is just stick to the veg light mode or both?