Big COB Setup: the annoying question.

What would you prefer for a massive indoor rig?

  • Cree CXB3590

    Votes: 4 50.0%

  • Citizen CLU048-1212

    Votes: 3 37.5%

  • Citizen CLU048-1216

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .
C

Cannabislight

Member
Hi guys,

First of all thanks to all the members for the wonderful forum, I've spent almost one day reading A TON of usefull stuff.

Second, presentations. I really love your setups, I'm from Italy and we're having here a developing production of so-called Cannabis Light which is, in fact, weed with close to no thc. Good start for now, even if not great, hope things will change here too, but you know, it takes time.

Together with some friend of mine we're going to enter the business, and we're planning to setup an indoor rig of around 6.4Kw total power, for now, assembling together different 2*2 COBs array in frames.

What we're not sure about is... which COB?

Please consider that we've made a lot of research already, and for what it seems, here in EU many people are still on CXB3590 at 1.4A.

However, the price difference is huge compared to the Citi's CLU048 - 1212.

Considering frame, reflector, wagos, wires, holders, heatsinks, driver etcetera, each 200W Kit would cost to us:
  • around $ 260 using CXB's
  • around $ 180 using 1212's
  • around $ 200 using 1216's
The driver would always be the Meanwell HLG-185H-C1400B.

Considering a total of 32 kits / 128 COBs, it makes a HUGE price difference.

So, here are my findings:
  • Efficacy, even if different, is comparable in the range of 10-20% (depending of Forward current, in favor of CXB's)
  • Official Citizen docs slightly underestimate actual efficacy (in terms of lm/W)
  • I've found online some homemade tests stating that the actual PPFD at the same Fc is around 5-10% lower on the Citizens
  • I've noticed many people just suggest Citizen because of its best price/performance ratio
Still, I cannot decide yet what to do. Can you help us?

Thanks from Italy!!
 
NoWaistedSpace

NoWaistedSpace

Well-Known Member
I use the Bridgelux "Vero 29 Gen 7's". I have great results.
If you want efficiency run more on a "parallel" wiring. More even coverage and more efficient.
 
C

Cannabislight

Member
Thanks NoWaistedSpace!

We didn't think much about the Vero29's as the price difference is not that huge. (unfortunately) One of our group is a cree big fan, so only a big money saving would be able to change his mind :)
 
welight

welight

Well-Known Member
we just got a recent price reduction from Cree on CXB3590 and Bridgelux on Vero29, PM me I can put a price package together for you
Cheers
Mark
 
C

Cannabislight

Member
CobKits said:
thas actually an enormous difference at 4-5 crops per year
Click to expand...
That's correct, but those numbers are based on Citizen's datasheet, which seems to be slightly conservative (reading different threads on several forums). That may explain why the PPFD gap (measured by some user, I have to serach for the link again) is narrower.

Unfortunaly there's no official/clean data about these specs. As I've read so many discussion today, I've noticed that many people suggest Citizen / Bridgelux over Cree, not only on this forum.

That's why I'm asking for more direct opinions / experiences here.
 
Last edited:
C

Cannabislight

Member
Rocket Soul said:
Being in italy you might wanna checkout this thread:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/board-from-europe.958506/

European made board, samsung lm561c, which has better efficiency than all your mentioned alternatives. 80€ per board, maybe you can negotiate a discount for so many boards.
Click to expand...
Hi Rocket Soul, I've been digging deeper in the Quantum Board world. I think we're going to use them as they provide the best cost/performance ratio.

I'm wondering how much area can cover a single 288pcs LM561C panel.

We were thinking to use 4*200W COB KITS to cover around 1.5 * 1.5 meters (so 16 cobs total at 1.400mA for an area around 5'x5').

Can we consider that 4x QBs are enough for the same area?
 
Aolelon

Aolelon

Well-Known Member
Cannabislight said:
Hi Rocket Soul, I've been digging deeper in the Quantum Board world. I think we're going to use them as they provide the best cost/performance ratio.

I'm wondering how much area can cover a single 288pcs LM561C panel.

We were thinking to use 4*200W COB KITS to cover around 1.5 * 1.5 meters (so 16 cobs total at 1.400mA for an area around 5'x5').

Can we consider that 4x QBs are enough for the same area?
Click to expand...
1 panel for a 2'x2' , 2 for a 2'x4'. 4 for a 4'x4'.
If you get seperate panels on heatsinks. You can spread them out a bit more and get a wider coverage from 4 boards.
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Cannabislight said:
Hi Rocket Soul, I've been digging deeper in the Quantum Board world. I think we're going to use them as they provide the best cost/performance ratio.

I'm wondering how much area can cover a single 288pcs LM561C panel.

We were thinking to use 4*200W COB KITS to cover around 1.5 * 1.5 meters (so 16 cobs total at 1.400mA for an area around 5'x5').

Can we consider that 4x QBs are enough for the same area?
Click to expand...
It really depends on how hard you drive them and how you spce them. The advice above 1 per 2x2) is about right for a 120w qb. But you could prob stretch it to a 5x5. It kind of depends if youre in open space, if you have cross lighting, how you space them and what is your desired light intensity.
Sources for Qbs in Eu is quite expensive, was quoted 270€ for 2 with heatsinks. But you could also import directly from HLG: @Stephenj37826 but you would have to pay customs

Good EU alternatives are the Led-342 and Zeus-308 as per link in above post.
 
klx

klx

Well-Known Member
You are making a big investment. My advice would be to take your time and choose wisely. At this point in time Samsung mid power diodes are leading the way so if you can afford them they would be the way to go - either boards or strips. If you want to save some money COBs or Bridgelux EB strips are a great choice too. Dont rush into anything, take your time and buy wisely!
 
C

Cannabislight

Member
We're really excited about Quantum Boards, thank you all for the advice :) We're considering several manufacturer in China for now, and one in EU. Given the lower price point at the manufacturer level, we're thinking even to 'pimp' our greenhouses a little ^_^
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
Alibubbas boards will litterally never have the specs they claim. Usually they dont use best bin, and connectors might be a bit shitty. Although i like the fotop boards from meijiu. Nice and easy and very little need for heatsink if u run them soft

In your situation id either get them from hlg directly, source drivers in europe or use the led-342 board from flower bologna.
The Zeus-308 also looks good, led-tech.de sells them with drivers and also monos for far red supplementation.
For a big project like this id prioritize having the provider of my equipment on the same continent if abything goes wrong.
 
C

Cannabislight

Member
We've found a producer in China that uses the same components of top level kits (wago blocks, premium potentiometers, meanwell, plug&play connectors on PCB) and another one that claims can customize the spectrum on a single board (f.eg. mixing some 2700K's with other 6500K's).

I've read many discussions about fake alibaba's chips, the worst can happen is to get 561B+ chips instead of 561C, but the difference is minimal. You'd notice if they use 561B as they are physically different (I learn quick :D )

Obviously we'll pay more care if we decide to go Chinese. But keep in mind that everything is chinese, even the boards you get from EU: all you have to do, pick the right manufacturer ;)
 
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nachooo

nachooo

Well-Known Member
Cannabislight said:
We've found a producer in China that uses the same components of top level kits (wago blocks, premium potentiometers, meanwell, plug&play connectors on PCB) and another one that claims can customize the spectrum on a single board (f.eg. mixing some 2700K's with other 6500K's).

I've read many discussions about fake alibaba's chips, the worst can happen is to get 561B+ chips instead of 561C, but the difference is minimal. You'd notice if they use 561B as they are physically different (I learn quick :D )

Obviously we'll pay more care if we decide to go Chinese. But keep in mind that everything is chinese, even the boards you get from EU: all you have to do, pick the right manufacturer ;)
Click to expand...
Think that in my country Spain (Europe) there is an oficial distributor of HLG quantum boards…
I would bought them my leds..but I did the alibaba route some months before they appear..anyway I am happy with my "samsungs"
 
Rocket Soul

Rocket Soul

Well-Known Member
nachooo said:
Think that in my country Spain (Europe) there is an oficial distributor of HLG quantum boards…
I would bought them my leds..but I did the alibaba route some months before they appear..anyway I am happy with my "samsungs"
Click to expand...
Hey Nachooo, always like to see you around :)
So you went for some china sammie boards?
Have a few of those myself.
Whats your current setup?
Still rocking those sativas? Any experiences with Amnesia Haze?
 
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