Help, yellowing leaves and sad plants

[polishpollack]

Actually if you grow outdoors, this kind of plant can become very large. You will need plenty of soil to accommodate such growth.

 

[FoliarFeeder16]

Alright guys so my plants seem to be slowly perking back up. They aren’t as droopy as before. Now my only concern is, I stopped all the feeding BESIDES general organics Calmag. I do 1.5 teaspoons per gallon of RO water. The instructions say 1 teaspoon for light feeding and 2 for a heavy feeding. My runoff is now coming at 6.4-6.5. I water at 6.5-6.6. I have a 1000w LED I had about 8 inches from the tops. Now just recently I pulled them away to 15 inches because i saw what i thought was light burn. Is this the case or can it still be a deficiency or a nutrient burn? (even though I haven’t been feeding any nutes besides calmag) The temperature in my grow area stays at 70-72 degrees under the leaves and 75-77 degrees 2-3 inches above the tops. (12 inches from the lights) I thank you guys all so much for your help, I guess I keep running into walls and the best way to learn is from mistakes. (Although it’s always better to not make any mistakes and learn from others experiences.) so what do you guys think is causing these colors of leaves? The white thermometer is right at the base of the plants under the leaves and the black one is 12 inches away from the light. I have a portable a/c connected to control temps and humidity of the grow space.

 

[FoliarFeeder16]

I will be repotting into 5 gallon pots today

 

[JohnDee]

FF...You you are treating for Mg+ deficiency. That's absolutely classic Mg+ deficiency. Keep up with the calmag but also you should consider foliar feeding some epsom salts. Plant will not do well until you treat that deficiency.
JD

https://www.google.com/search?q=marijuana+magnesium+deficiency+pictures&oq=marijuana+mg+deficiency&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.15347j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Tim1987]

Gday FoliarFeeder.

I don't mean to intrude on the great help you're receiving in this thread.
Just feel I should ask what your soils ph is?
Reason being your recent photos looked a lot like zinc deficiency to me.
Magnesium deficiency typically gets a V shape of yellow on the fan leaves, and works it's way from the bottom of the plant upward. Although chlorosis usually does follow.
Reason I ask about your ph. Is zinc and iron, are faily unavailable if your ph is high, and it's rare to have zinc deficiency, unless there's lockout, with modern soil etc.
It looks like zinc deficiency to me.
Calcium and magnesium will buffer ph to stay high. Usually a touch over ph7.
TBH I think it is worth checking your soils ph, as soon as you can. So you can be sure.
I failed to read the thread sorry. But have you checked your water too, if using tap?
Do you have a way of testing ec?
What's the ph of your water source too?

Again don't mean to intrude. You're receiving good help here.

Zinc deficiency -

https://www.google.com.au/search?safe=off&source=hp&ei=S8YyW_a-DpPr-QbK8KroBQ&q=zinc+deficiency+plants&oq=&gs_l=mobile-gws-wiz-hp.1.0.35i39l5.0.0..9246...1....0.0.......0...........5.5CDb8mZdGYU=


https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/blog-zinc-deficiency-in-cannabis-plants-n606

Good luck.

Tim.

 

[JohnDee]

it's rare to have zinc deficiency, unless there's lockout

Hi Tim...you're obviously more familiar with zinc deficiency then I am. So you're ruling out Mg+ deficiency on the basis of leaf pattern or progression?

He's in FFOF soil and is phing to low 6

And since when do apologize before posting on a thread? Turning over a new leaf? (horticultural pun)
JD

 

[Tim1987]

Hi Tim...you're obviously more familiar with zinc deficiency then I am. So you're ruling out Mg+ deficiency on the basis of leaf pattern or progression?

He's in FFOF soil and is phing to low 6

And since when do apologize before posting on a thread? Turning over a new leaf? (horticultural pun)
JD

Hi JD.

Just felt the need to chip in.
Figured it was worth the question. Good to rule it out.
Im generally siding with you. That some Epsom salts wouldnt hurt.
But i feel its worth taking a soil sample to check the ph accurately. Only because if theres a lot of calmag in the soil. The ph may be high.
I wondered about lime scale or something similar in the water. I think most calmag is chellated too. So it should have improved quite quickly, in theory.
Worth checking i believe. At least to rule the possibility out.
Just covering all the bases.

Tim.



P.S.
Just didnt want to intrude on the good help you're giving.

 

[FoliarFeeder16]

Gday FoliarFeeder.

I don't mean to intrude on the great help you're receiving in this thread.
Just feel I should ask what your soils ph is?
Reason being your recent photos looked a lot like zinc deficiency to me.
Magnesium deficiency typically gets a V shape of yellow on the fan leaves, and works it's way from the bottom of the plant upward. Although chlorosis usually does follow.
Reason I ask about your ph. Is zinc and iron, are faily unavailable if your ph is high, and it's rare to have zinc deficiency, unless there's lockout, with modern soil etc.
It looks like zinc deficiency to me.
Calcium and magnesium will buffer ph to stay high. Usually a touch over ph7.
TBH I think it is worth checking your soils ph, as soon as you can. So you can be sure.
I failed to read the thread sorry. But have you checked your water too, if using tap?
Do you have a way of testing ec?
What's the ph of your water source too?

Again don't mean to intrude. You're receiving good help here.

Zinc deficiency -


Good luck.

Tim.

Hey Tim. JD is correct. I am growing I’m soil. At first I did have a lot of ph fluctuations on my soil. I would water at 6.5 and the runoff would come out at 5.3ish. I corrected the pH with a flush. I water at 6.5 and my runoff comes at a 6.4-6.5. I alwats add calmag using RO water.

 

[ILGM Will]

FF,
It's certainly not a pervasive problem. I think it's just a tiny bit of nutrient burn from having plant in rich soil AND adding nutrients,

So back off nutrients. Lots of guys will go a month or longer in FFOF before adding extra nutrients.
JD

I completely agree with what you just said. and I think this is what his problem was all along.
Good info and grat advice

Will

 

[JohnDee]

FF,
Here's an idea. Since foliar feeding does not depend on roots or soil ph...go ahead and foliar feed with MgSO4 (epsom salts) as a test.

If the plant improved dramatically that will prove two things.
!; that it is MG+ deficiency
2: That soil/roots aren't operating at peak due to probably wonky soil ph

So mix one tsp epsom salts in a gallon of warm water (to help it dissolve) and earn your name...foliar feed twice a day.
JD

 

[Tim1987]

Hey Tim. JD is correct. I am growing I’m soil. At first I did have a lot of ph fluctuations on my soil. I would water at 6.5 and the runoff would come out at 5.3ish. I corrected the pH with a flush. I water at 6.5 and my runoff comes at a 6.4-6.5. I alwats add calmag using RO water.

Understood, and i dont mean to intrude.
But i had the same thing happen to me, adding calmag to my tap water. It was in coir though.
The thing about coir is we can read our waste to get an accurate read of our root zone.
Soil we cant. We need to take a soil sample to accurately tell. Because soil isnt inert.
Its actually very common for waste runoff in soil to be considerably lower than the soil itself.
Because fresher organic material leaches when water hits it.
For instance green matter is nearly always lower in ph than brown matter.
Rich soils typically have a lot of green matter in them.
Although never having used it before. FFOF seems like a very rich mix out of the bag.
My point is.
I think its worth taking a sample of your soil, just for peace of mind.
Not saying it is. But really believe you should check your soil to see for sure.
Zinc deficiency looks extremely similar to me. It also looks as though your symptoms are starting from new growth the most?
My issue is magnesium is mobile, and starts from the bottom fans upward. It also creates a V shape on the leaf edges. Magnesium deficiency in citrus is a good example. I'll find some pictures, and post them.

I do believe your soils ph, on a slurry test may show a different result than you believe.

I really dont mean to contradict anything said here. But i believe it would be wise to check.

FF,
Here's an idea. Since foliar feeding does not depend on roots or soil ph...go ahead and foliar feed with MgSO4 (epsom salts) as a test.

If the plant improved dramatically that will prove two things.
!; that it is MG+ deficiency
2: That soil/roots aren't operating at peak due to probably wonky soil ph

So mix one tsp epsom salts in a gallon of warm water (to help it dissolve) and earn your name...foliar feed twice a day.
JD

Good idea.
I like this too.

Best of luck OP.

Peace to all.

 

[Tim1987]

Imo the key to your problem, is determining where your symptoms started.
Towards the tops of the plant, then spread down?
Or on the largest fan leaves, and spread upward, effecting tops last?

An example of magnesium deficiency in citrus. Cannabis does exactly the same. Notice the V of yellow?
It starts as a very faint fade at the leaf tips and serrations, then works it way in. I've found I always get the V first, before chlorosis myself.
As i say. I don't think a soil sample will hurt OP. It'll give a much clearer picture of what exactly is going on as well.

Magnesium deficiency.

 

[FoliarFeeder16]

Thanks so much guys. I will try both. I will do both a soil slurry test to see what is the pH of the soil itself and not of the runoff and i will also do foliar feeding on it. In order to do foliar feed can i use the calmag or should I actually use Epsom salt? Now how will I know that it’s actyally helping? Will the leaves regain their color or will I just have to keep an eye out on new growth?

 

[FoliarFeeder16]

Something else that might be helpful in having a better idea what it can be, my new growth is definitely affected by it. As well as my older leaves. But the older leaves actually got spots on them. Also I’ve noticed that my stems are purple. I don’t think chocolope strain has that purplish stem. Here are a few pictures of the old and new growth. And of the purple stems. I appreciate it!

 

[Tim1987]

Thanks so much guys. I will try both. I will do both a soil slurry test to see what is the pH of the soil itself and not of the runoff and i will also do foliar feeding on it. In order to do foliar feed can i use the calmag or should I actually use Epsom salt? Now how will I know that it’s actyally helping? Will the leaves regain their color or will I just have to keep an eye out on new growth?

I'd personally just try the Epsom salts. Just a light dose too.
I'd also try a big drink of plain water, without any calmag once your soil is rather dry. Get some good runoff when you do. Flush a little of that organic material out.
When you grab your test kit at the hardware. Grab a bottle of distilled water as well. It'll give a better representation.
If you still have some ffof lying around that you havnt used, I'd say test that too with a slurry. Then compare the sample to your pot sample. See if they vary.

Good luck OP.

Glad you find what we have to say useful.

 

[Tim1987]

Something else that might be helpful in having a better idea what it can be, my new growth is definitely affected by it. As well as my older leaves. But the older leaves actually got spots on them. Also I’ve noticed that my stems are purple. I don’t think chocolope strain has that purplish stem. Here are a few pictures of the old and new growth. And of the purple stems. I appreciate it!

Id say FFOF would be quite rich in organic matter. Green organic matter typically contain a lot of phosphate. (such as guano, and manure)
I found a good article on antagonism by maximum yield. I'll upload it for you. I think you'll find it pretty handy. Because if your ph is ok, it could be your soil is rich. Its why i suggested a plain watering once dry, to flush some out, incase.
Another thing to bare in mind. Is a lot of the time phosphorus deficiency and excess shows red, and purple stem. Calcium deficiency shows as brown spots on the fan leaves. But it does the same if its being locked out.
By your description of your tops being effected the most, it seems likely its a micro nutrient issue. Zinc is a micro.
Im not saying i have the diagnosis here. Just believe you need to determine your ph. Because if your ph is ok. Antagonism is at play somehow, and from what ive noticed on RIU, FFOF is a very rich mix straight out of the bag.

Give me a couple minutes and ill paste a link for you.

 

[Tim1987]

https://www.maximumyield.com/nutrient-antagonism/2/2092

 

[JohnDee]

can i use the calmag or should I actually use Epsom salt?

FF
Please ignore my comment saying twice as day. Just once at lights out to prevent burning.

I think they make a special calmag just for foliar feeding...so epsom salts would be cheaper...and probably absorb better.
JD

 

[FoliarFeeder16]

Thanks so much guys! I’ll upload an update within a week!

 

[polishpollack]

Don't be surprised if your plants look worse within that week. What none of you have discussed is the close distance of a 1000 light. Not good. I don't think foliar feeding, especially one full tsp in a gallon, is such a good idea. Many times people who foliar feed come here and say that they are having problems. Doing nothing other than transplanting to a much bigger container with plenty of soil is the best option, along with raising the light. Even 15 inches might be too close for a 1000 watter. Air temp is one thing, temp on the surface of leaves is another. Filling the OP's head full of mumbo-jumbo is useless. Go ahead and do what others here are saying and watch your plants die.