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DeltaRomeo83

Member
I keep my "net" on top of the pot below the plant and just tie her down as she goes.... actually I don't use netting at all... I use fencing.... light gauge metal fencing with around 2" squares works best (but I'm trying some plastic fencing in the pics.... too much flexibility in my opinion stick to metal) so you can snip and bend the cage below the plant and make adjustments easier with many anchoring points for growth.... also no bud or anything is locked into the "net" cuz the plant is just tied down with twisty ties and can be transportes easily because the cage for each is individually secured to the top of each pot. Keeps the ladies just how I like them. Short and thick :)
 

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growingforfun

Well-Known Member
ANC said:
View attachment 4151564
I didn't get time to upload it here yesterday before we went for our day in the countryside.
I created this picture to demonstrate to a new guy.
Click to expand...
Ive been at this for a while but i only read the forums off an on so this wraping the branches thing is new to me. Im doing it where possible on my current plant so first off, thank you an others for pointing this out.

Is this going to be better than making sure theres a node in every hole? Why? I can see its going to give more support to the buds but at the same time it almost looks like it could hurt the branch as it grows. Anyways thanks for the tips an any insight. Cant wait to see the results.

How tall do you let the canopy get over the screen, and how close to your 1000 watt bulb? I know this is kinda old and basic, but i want to be open to relearn in case what im doing isnt the best way.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
Because what you are doing is spreading apical dominance all along the branch rather than having just a large tip cola, you have even colas at every node, and they are all at the same height from the light (in theory), once you flip, you may need to keep your thumb on things for the first 2 weeks.

Just sticking a branch through a hole does little to support it... Add weight to the tip and it starts slipping back.

How high the net depends on the number of plants you use to fill your area... more plants will be smaller and need a lower net than fewer plants.
Try and eyeball it so you don't have to destroy your plants but get as many nodes at net height as you can. Do not be scared to really supercrop and break branches at this stage.
 
charface

charface

Well-Known Member
growingforfun said:
Ive been at this for a while but i only read the forums off an on so this wraping the branches thing is new to me. Im doing it where possible on my current plant so first off, thank you an others for pointing this out.

Is this going to be better than making sure theres a node in every hole? Why? I can see its going to give more support to the buds but at the same time it almost looks like it could hurt the branch as it grows. Anyways thanks for the tips an any insight. Cant wait to see the results.

How tall do you let the canopy get over the screen, and how close to your 1000 watt bulb? I know this is kinda old and basic, but i want to be open to relearn in case what im doing isnt the best way.
Click to expand...
I try to get my lights very close.
But not close enough to bleach them
Or cook off the terps.

I use an infared heat sensor on the top
Of my canopy and try to keep it around 80ish max
I also use air cooled 1000s and they move a small distance back n forth which allows me to get it done.

Also running full spectrum bulbs.

The hoods Im using now are not designed for tight deep penetration.


I would error on the side of caution
The light don't need to be as close as I run it.

I don't know how thick your canopy is?
How cool your room is
What bulb you run,
What reflector etc.....

So lets pretend you have standard 1000w hps air cooled in a well kept climate

Working with 6ish in canopy
Keeping that light 18 inches should work but again you have to check it out and see how it works on your plants
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
charface said:
I try to get my lights very close.
But not close enough to bleach them
Or cook off the terps.

I use an infared heat sensor on the top
Of my canopy and try to keep it around 80ish max
I also use air cooled 1000s and they move a small distance back n forth which allows me to get it done.

Also running full spectrum bulbs.

The hoods Im using now are not designed for tight deep penetration.


I would error on the side of caution
The light don't need to be as close as I run it.

I don't know how thick your canopy is?
How cool your room is
What bulb you run,
What reflector etc.....

So lets pretend you have standard 1000w hps air cooled in a well kept climate

Working with 6ish in canopy
Keeping that light 18 inches should work but again you have to check it out and see how it works on your plants
Click to expand...
Im going to buy a infared sensor today, i used to have one an loved it but lost it. Im using a magnum xxl reflector, pulling with 8 inch fan. Glass can easily be touched right under the bulb but its def warm after 20 seconds and wouldnt hold my hand there much longer than that. Getting a brand new hortilux super hps bulb for day one of flower this cycle. Let me know if theres a better bulb to use for yield. (Stuff always comes out greasy enough for me with it)

My scrog net is around 4 x 4.5 in a 5x5 tent. 12 inch fan in the corner blowing across the tops, single plant grow in 35 gallon container.
I want to do the best i can with this so even of its too late to change this cycle maybe the next one goes diff (diff bulb etc)
 
charface

charface

Well-Known Member
growingforfun said:
Im going to buy a infared sensor today, i used to have one an loved it but lost it. Im using a magnum xxl reflector, pulling with 8 inch fan. Glass can easily be touched right under the bulb but its def warm after 20 seconds and wouldnt hold my hand there much longer than that. Getting a brand new hortilux super hps bulb for day one of flower this cycle. Let me know if theres a better bulb to use for yield. (Stuff always comes out greasy enough for me with it)

My scrog net is around 4 x 4.5 in a 5x5 tent. 12 inch fan in the corner blowing across the tops, single plant grow in 35 gallon container.
I want to do the best i can with this so even of its too late to change this cycle maybe the next one goes diff (diff bulb etc)
Click to expand...
Sounds like a good setup,
Im really not a bulb expert
Im trying this dual arc bulb thinking that im sacrificing a bit of yield but hopefully improved quality.

Someone will chime in here with more information
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
ANC said:
Because what you are doing is spreading apical dominance all along the branch rather than having just a large tip cola, you have even colas at every node, and they are all at the same height from the light (in theory), once you flip, you may need to keep your thumb on things for the first 2 weeks.

Just sticking a branch through a hole does little to support it... Add weight to the tip and it starts slipping back.

How high the net depends on the number of plants you use to fill your area... more plants will be smaller and need a lower net than fewer plants.
Try and eyeball it so you don't have to destroy your plants but get as many nodes at net height as you can. Do not be scared to really supercrop and break branches at this stage.
Click to expand...
Just running a single plant. The screen is already pretty much completely full at this point, only a couple squares open in 2 of the corners, plus a couple in the middle but i always train away from the middle because those fill up so quickly after flip. Nodes are mostly around 2 inches over the screen at this point, should i try wraping them or left them grow up?
Just got my new bulb, thinking about flipping em today as was the plan, or possibly waiting till summer solstice here on the 21st.
 
D

DeltaRomeo83

Member
ANC said:
Because what you are doing is spreading apical dominance all along the branch rather than having just a large tip cola, you have even colas at every node, and they are all at the same height from the light (in theory), once you flip, you may need to keep your thumb on things for the first 2 weeks.

Just sticking a branch through a hole does little to support it... Add weight to the tip and it starts slipping back.

How high the net depends on the number of plants you use to fill your area... more plants will be smaller and need a lower net than fewer plants.
Try and eyeball it so you don't have to destroy your plants but get as many nodes at net height as you can. Do not be scared to really supercrop and break branches at this stage.
Click to expand...
I understand the theory but your preventing apical dominance not spreading it. Apical dominance is when 1 or usually the center stalk dominates over the other branches which is everything your trying to prevent in scogging not spread. I'm telling you.... you guys are wasting time and space. First off your right when your net is over your plant it will not support it.... if your cage is under your plant and your tying it down the whole way.... there is constant tension on the branches and stalk which makes them incredibly strong because their whole life they are fighting and struggling to pull up against the ties. So there is no need for support in fact it's the opposite.... if a branch seems to be getting heavy... release the tie downs under it and it will release the tension causing it to spring up. Also why would you shoot the plant up for any reason? Only thing your really trying to do is keep your canopy at optimum light range.... you could raise your pots as apposed to forcing them to shoot up that high or just lower the light. I see all the pics and almost every scrog has foot of barren stalk or more. That is super inefficienct. Translocation in flowering plants averages about 1 meter an hour. So a foot of stalk slows nutrient reception from root to flower by 20 minutes. I would imagine this would have a bigger impact on hydroponic cycles as later in bloom the nutes are taking an additional 20-40 minutes to hit their mark. You probably never notice but I bet if you adjusted for that you would get better nutrient uptake. I mean everything is situationwl dependent but to me indoor is about efficiency. Your pretty much lollypopping plants.... to me if you have to lollipop then you didn't keep things maintained optimumly. There should be no space between your pot and canopy.... if there is your slowing down nute reception. I understand everyone is copying someone else's style from books and what not.... but it's an old style that is far from efficient. There is absolutely no need for feet of barren stalk on any plant... it's a waste of space and energy. I can take 1 pant or 100 plants and screen them or cage them and the pot plus plant (floor to canopy) should never be over 24 inches if your doing it right in my book. The Ben Method of topping is lazy and wasteful as well lol. Chop your baby in half so your low branches become your colas lol ooookayyy...... Or not. Pluck the heathly node, then pluck those 2, now you have 4 so you pull each in a different direction until you hit the edge of the pot.... then you slide your screen under the plant on top of your pots so that there are no branches below the cage. Keep tying everything down everyday to control the plant growth and create tension on the stems. Lol also there are very specific tying techniques.... you want to tie most you can down with the sunleaves... When you tie them.... Tie both sun leaves on each side of the same branch. This hold your branches down, keeps your sunleaves underneath your canopy so all secondary growth is left on top so you get the penetration of removing sun leaves without actually removing them. The sunleaves creating a kind of floor underneath everything. I've been doing this since about 03.
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
DeltaRomeo83 said:
I understand the theory but your preventing apical dominance not spreading it. Apical dominance is when 1 or usually the center stalk dominates over the other branches which is everything your trying to prevent in scogging not spread. I'm telling you.... you guys are wasting time and space. First off your right when your net is over your plant it will not support it.... if your cage is under your plant and your tying it down the whole way.... there is constant tension on the branches and stalk which makes them incredibly strong because their whole life they are fighting and struggling to pull up against the ties. So there is no need for support in fact it's the opposite.... if a branch seems to be getting heavy... release the tie downs under it and it will release the tension causing it to spring up. Also why would you shoot the plant up for any reason? Only thing your really trying to do is keep your canopy at optimum light range.... you could raise your pots as apposed to forcing them to shoot up that high or just lower the light. I see all the pics and almost every scrog has foot of barren stalk or more. That is super inefficienct. Translocation in flowering plants averages about 1 meter an hour. So a foot of stalk slows nutrient reception from root to flower by 20 minutes. I would imagine this would have a bigger impact on hydroponic cycles as later in bloom the nutes are taking an additional 20-40 minutes to hit their mark. You probably never notice but I bet if you adjusted for that you would get better nutrient uptake. I mean everything is situationwl dependent but to me indoor is about efficiency. Your pretty much lollypopping plants.... to me if you have to lollipop then you didn't keep things maintained optimumly. There should be no space between your pot and canopy.... if there is your slowing down nute reception. I understand everyone is copying someone else's style from books and what not.... but it's an old style that is far from efficient. There is absolutely no need for feet of barren stalk on any plant... it's a waste of space and energy. I can take 1 pant or 100 plants and screen them or cage them and the pot plus plant (floor to canopy) should never be over 24 inches if your doing it right in my book. The Ben Method of topping is lazy and wasteful as well lol. Chop your baby in half so your low branches become your colas lol ooookayyy...... Or not. Pluck the heathly node, then pluck those 2, now you have 4 so you pull each in a different direction until you hit the edge of the pot.... then you slide your screen under the plant on top of your pots so that there are no branches below the cage. Keep tying everything down everyday to control the plant growth and create tension on the stems. Lol also there are very specific tying techniques.... you want to tie most you can down with the sunleaves... When you tie them.... Tie both sun leaves on each side of the same branch. This hold your branches down, keeps your sunleaves underneath your canopy so all secondary growth is left on top so you get the penetration of removing sun leaves without actually removing them. The sunleaves creating a kind of floor underneath everything. I've been doing this since about 03.
Click to expand...
Lets see some pictures please. I know a lot of that just wouldnt work for me right off the bat. For example my branches are just way to thick to be able to be tied down by the leaf. I cant have 24 inches floor to canopy cuz my pot is over 32 inches itself ;) but id love to see pictures of what your doing, a lot of what your saying is a lot like how i do my veg training exept ill tie weights to branches to pull them down an beef em up
 
D

DeltaRomeo83

Member
growingforfun said:
Lets see some pictures please. I know a lot of that just wouldnt work for me right off the bat. For example my branches are just way to thick to be able to be tied down by the leaf. I cant have 24 inches floor to canopy cuz my pot is over 32 inches itself ;) but id love to see pictures of what your doing, a lot of what your saying is a lot like how i do my veg training exept ill tie weights to branches to pull them down an beef em up
Click to expand...
It's kinda tricky to get in there and get a shot but you can see a little of what I'm talking about. I like to tie both sum leaves sets down or else one will still try to shoot up.... or sometimes pulling it down by the opposite sun leave to get it to twist the way you want. Just experimentation. Also stretchy plants I will just pull branches that are shooting up and actually pull them down under other branches to weave it to the hight I want. I'll see if I can find a pic of that if I can too.
 

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DeltaRomeo83

Member
growingforfun said:
Lets see some pictures please. I know a lot of that just wouldnt work for me right off the bat. For example my branches are just way to thick to be able to be tied down by the leaf. I cant have 24 inches floor to canopy cuz my pot is over 32 inches itself ;) but id love to see pictures of what your doing, a lot of what your saying is a lot like how i do my veg training exept ill tie weights to branches to pull them down an beef em up
Click to expand...
Your not gonna be able to anchor it alone with the leaf stems. But do it where ever possible to maximize penetration while retaining an adequate amount of sunleaves to keep up with photosynthesis and processing sugars. Also about translocation. Your leaves change the sugars they process and where it is stored in the plant. Glucose is created in the leaves to produce ATP (the energy of life basically) and any abundance is processed into sucrose and sent to the root zone. So glucose is produced in leaf, is turned into sucrose and sent to the root zone or "sink" I believe it's refered to as. But the plant shifts from glucose to sucrose in flowering and virtually stops producing glucose. Found a pretty good article or slide on it somewhere. But that's why most supplement sugar (sucrose) at late flower because your plant very well may have depleted it's reserve. Especially if your slamming some plants for all they are worth lol..... kinda went off into left field there but anywho lol
 
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ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
Thegermling said:
At what point do you stop tucking the branches under the net and let them grow through?
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There will come in a morning you walk in there and go WTF! It will be impossible to keep up with tucking as there are just so many new leaves from overnight. At that point you better pray that you flipped. I just took the clones to the veg room, I am about to hit that point so I'm flipping tonight. Harvest date: 21 August.
 
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