Soil Test Results

[Growitpondifarm]

Due to the darkness of the leaves and the tips of them it looks like the beginning of nitrogen toxicity to me. If that is the case you will and can have root damage.
That soil you made is far too hot imo.

Yes there is slight Leaf tip curl but also this picture was taken after a full watering and aloe foliar. These will be transplanted in a week into their final pots so hopefully everything stays kosher until then. Growth has picked up the past few days and other than the slight tip curling like you mentioned I think I should be ok. I’m surprised at how hot my mix came out considering I was light on the ammendments and the composts I used appear to be mild(local mix of manures farm trimmings/EWC). I say this because I have used both in my veggie beds and they are loving life at the moment.

I might cutout the alfalfa next time I put a soil together.

By the time the plants are up potted the soil will have been cooking for almost 8 weeks so hopefully that will also help. Again I will definitely be adding extra perlite before transplanting thanks to everyone’s input.

I’ll post progress here later today as everything is looking better today

 

[Strudelheim]

Im sorry but at any point did OP actually state what amounts are in his mix, per cubic foot? If we are to interpret the results and give advice should we not start there, as well it will give some insight into the test results.

 

[Growitpondifarm]

1/4 cup alfalfa
1/2 cup neem
1/2 cup crab shell meal
1/2 cup kelp
12 cups of mineral mix(build a soil), basalt gypsum and oyster shell flour.


Those are the ammendments, mixed into 3 cubic foot bale of peat moss and 3 cubic feet of compost/worm casting mix(50/50) plus I cut with perlite at roughly 3 cubic feet as well.

Im sorry but at any point did OP actually state what amounts are in his mix, per cubic foot? If we are to interpret the results and give advice should we not start there, as well it will give some insight into the test results.

 

[Strudelheim]

So all those are total for the 9 cubic foot mix batch, or are what it works out to per cubic foot ? I always do my measurements per cubic foot. makes easy to adjust and analyze and replicate, for yourself and others

 

[Growitpondifarm]

Per cubic foot on the ammendments

 

[Strudelheim]

Per cubic foot on the ammendments

12 Cups Minerals per cubic foot?

I guess thats what Coot's recipe used. but even then I raised an eyebrow.

I don't really do anything over 1 cup per cubic foot. Even if its minerals.

If you re use and re ammend your soil each run that would build up pretty quick.

 

[Growitpondifarm]

I basically just followed coots mix in this, I liked his theories behind it, I’m hoping next run this will be even better with this mix. We’ll see

 

[Wetdog]

12 Cups Minerals per cubic foot?

I guess thats what Coot's recipe used. but even then I raised an eyebrow.

I don't really do anything over 1 cup per cubic foot. Even if its minerals.

If you re use and re ammend your soil each run that would build up pretty quick.

I totally agree. It got tracked down to a math error by going back to the original study where he got his amounts from (a field soil study for agriculture), and it was found to be the correct amount for a cubic YARD (27cf), but a massive over application for a cubic foot.

This was pointed out, and researched, after more than a few (myself included), complained of a mix that was more like cement than a growing medium.

Coot never responded, either to address the error, or, correct the amounts. He was posting over at GCO fairly regular at that point in time.

Anyway, most long term growers do as you do and keep it to 1cup/cf or even less. Those who follow the recipe usually figure it out in a grow or 2. AFA "theories" go, read my sig line, sums up my feelings pretty well. LOL

Myself, I've discontinued rock dust completely and just use greensand @ 1/2 to 1cup/cf. Greensand is slow, but lightning fast compared to the breakdown rates of say basalt or granite.
HTH

Wet

 

[Growitpondifarm]

Wet dog,

Great info as usual. I think mixing another small bale of peat(2.2 cuft)into my mix would be beneficial after hearing everyone’s input, or maybe just a half of a small bale. Anyone see any issue with doing this at this point? PH might be lowered a bit but with my ph coming at 6.6 I don’t think this would be that big of an issue.


WD, are ou using strictly greensand for all of your mineral inputs? Does he GS Act as a ph buffer as well? Or are you adding something else to buffer.

I totally agree. It got tracked down to a math error by going back to the original study where he got his amounts from (a field soil study for agriculture), and it was found to be the correct amount for a cubic YARD (27cf), but a massive over application for a cubic foot.

This was pointed out, and researched, after more than a few (myself included), complained of a mix that was more like cement than a growing medium.

Coot never responded, either to address the error, or, correct the amounts. He was posting over at GCO fairly regular at that point in time.

Anyway, most long term growers do as you do and keep it to 1cup/cf or even less. Those who follow the recipe usually figure it out in a grow or 2. AFA "theories" go, read my sig line, sums up my feelings pretty well. LOL

Myself, I've discontinued rock dust completely and just use greensand @ 1/2 to 1cup/cf. Greensand is slow, but lightning fast compared to the breakdown rates of say basalt or granite.
HTH

Wet

 

[Wetdog]

Wet dog,

Great info as usual. I think mixing another small bale of peat(2.2 cuft)into my mix would be beneficial after hearing everyone’s input, or maybe just a half of a small bale. Anyone see any issue with doing this at this point? PH might be lowered a bit but with my ph coming at 6.6 I don’t think this would be that big of an issue.


WD, are ou using strictly greensand for all of your mineral inputs? Does he GS Act as a ph buffer as well? Or are you adding something else to buffer.

I use dolomite lime for pH buffering and that is considered and added totally separate from any other amendments or minerals. Not part of any "mineral mix", or, used in conjunction with anything else. My pH ends up ~ 6.7-6.8.

Unbuffered peat has a Ph in the low 4's and if you add peat you WILL need to lime it and of course perlite to aerate.

I don't think that GS offers any buffering at all and neither does any other rock dust, or gypsum. You need calcium carbonate for buffering (gypsum is calcium sulfate). It's a chemical reaction that only the carbonate form of Ca performs.

I tried to "fix" my too dense mix with poor results and what I ended up doing was using that mix as my mineral input by adding a gallon or two to fresh mixes. I had added 6cups/cf, so a gallon or so gave me more than enough RD. A good bit also went on my raised bed gardens. I had mixed a bit over 10cf.

It was a real PITA and took some time, but still way easier than trying to fix the too dense mix by adding stuff or cutting it. The mix was fine other than too much RD, so adding a gallon or 2 to fresh mix didn't throw other amounts off.

Besides the GS there is also kelp meal, which will provide all the mineral inputs needed all by itself. The GS and kelp meal compliment each other with a fast/slow release deal and has always worked well for me. The RD was redundant using both of those and not missed. LOL, GS is the "Old School" mineral input and after ~10 years of using it *I* consider it superior to any RD that I've used. But, that's just my opinion.

Wet

 

[Strudelheim]

I totally agree. It got tracked down to a math error by going back to the original study where he got his amounts from (a field soil study for agriculture), and it was found to be the correct amount for a cubic YARD (27cf), but a massive over application for a cubic foot.

This was pointed out, and researched, after more than a few (myself included), complained of a mix that was more like cement than a growing medium.

Coot never responded, either to address the error, or, correct the amounts. He was posting over at GCO fairly regular at that point in time.

Anyway, most long term growers do as you do and keep it to 1cup/cf or even less. Those who follow the recipe usually figure it out in a grow or 2. AFA "theories" go, read my sig line, sums up my feelings pretty well. LOL

Myself, I've discontinued rock dust completely and just use greensand @ 1/2 to 1cup/cf. Greensand is slow, but lightning fast compared to the breakdown rates of say basalt or granite.
HTH

Wet

That actually really clears it up. Funny story indeed, Thanks!

 

[Strudelheim]

I use dolomite lime for pH buffering and that is considered and added totally separate from any other amendments or minerals. Not part of any "mineral mix", or, used in conjunction with anything else. My pH ends up ~ 6.7-6.8.

Unbuffered peat has a Ph in the low 4's and if you add peat you WILL need to lime it and of course perlite to aerate.

I don't think that GS offers any buffering at all and neither does any other rock dust, or gypsum. You need calcium carbonate for buffering (gypsum is calcium sulfate). It's a chemical reaction that only the carbonate form of Ca performs.

I tried to "fix" my too dense mix with poor results and what I ended up doing was using that mix as my mineral input by adding a gallon or two to fresh mixes. I had added 6cups/cf, so a gallon or so gave me more than enough RD. A good bit also went on my raised bed gardens. I had mixed a bit over 10cf.

It was a real PITA and took some time, but still way easier than trying to fix the too dense mix by adding stuff or cutting it. The mix was fine other than too much RD, so adding a gallon or 2 to fresh mix didn't throw other amounts off.

Besides the GS there is also kelp meal, which will provide all the mineral inputs needed all by itself. The GS and kelp meal compliment each other with a fast/slow release deal and has always worked well for me. The RD was redundant using both of those and not missed. LOL, GS is the "Old School" mineral input and after ~10 years of using it *I* consider it superior to any RD that I've used. But, that's just my opinion.

Wet

Ph of peat can be anywhere between 4-5.5. I called my company and they told me it was 5.1 and when I checked it came out exactly between 5-5.2.

 

[Strudelheim]

Wet dog,

Great info as usual. I think mixing another small bale of peat(2.2 cuft)into my mix would be beneficial after hearing everyone’s input, or maybe just a half of a small bale. Anyone see any issue with doing this at this point? PH might be lowered a bit but with my ph coming at 6.6 I don’t think this would be that big of an issue.


WD, are ou using strictly greensand for all of your mineral inputs? Does he GS Act as a ph buffer as well? Or are you adding something else to buffer.

If you mix in equal parts perlite/ewc or compost / peat you should be able to keep your ph in that good already range of 6.6 and keep a good soil texture balance.

The rest of your ammendments definitely aren't too high and infact on the low end. I think thats what you were looking for feedback on originally.

 

[MustangStudFarm]

I’m surprised at how hot my mix came out considering I was light on the ammendments and the composts I used appear to be mild(local mix of manures farm trimmings/EWC). I say this because I have used both in my veggie beds and they are loving life at the moment.

This is exactly my problem too. My squash, tomatoes, and peppers are doing wonderful in my compost. However, the exact same mix does not do very well in pots??? I am leaning towards not using manure in my compost anymore, and it sucks because I already have a system with my rabbits. Be careful when talking about compost, not everyone uses manure and they don't understand the problems that come with it... I added peat to soil that looked very similar to yours and it really didn't address the issue. The N-P-K numbers went down, but so did the trace minerals. You also need to give peat a month or two for the Ph to adjust and you will need to SOAK it often and heavy or you will have sodium problems, like my test. If you are going to use peat, learn how to prepare it first.

My focus is talking about Phosphorus right now because that is the issue that I cannot seem to get away from. The test that I shown only had alfalfa and fish meal for P inputs and I used them very sparingly... I am also on the search for a compost that is very low in Phosphorus, I don't think that there is one... Here is Build-a-Soil's "Modern Mix w/ Oly Mnt fish compost". It didn't do all that great in pots, but it did very well in a raised flower bed??? Again, the mix is low in trace minerals... You can see a little yellowing, but nothing like when I used it in pots.

 

[Growitpondifarm]

If you mix in equal parts perlite/ewc or compost / peat you should be able to keep your ph in that good already range of 6.6 and keep a good soil texture balance.

The rest of your ammendments definitely aren't too high and infact on the low end. I think thats what you were looking for feedback on originally.

Great discussion here.

The local peat bales I get seem to come in right around ph 5 pretty consistently. I like the idea of cutting my mix a bit with some compost/peat mix plus I’m going to add more drainage in the form of perlite.

It’s funny, When I make soil for my raised veggie beds I do it by eye and kind of just use whats readily available and they do great. But mix a cannabis centric soil and the tinfoil hat comes out and I’m buying foreign ammendments and looking at recipes online.

Lesson learned, going forward I’ll be keeping things simple. Good compost, Good aeration and a few ammendments to balance things out.

 

[Growitpondifarm]

This is exactly my problem too. My squash, tomatoes, and peppers are doing wonderful in my compost. However, the exact same mix does not do very well in pots??? I am leaning towards not using manure in my compost anymore, and it sucks because I already have a system with my rabbits. Be careful when talking about compost, not everyone uses manure and they don't understand the problems that come with it... I added peat to soil that looked very similar to yours and it really didn't address the issue. The N-P-K numbers went down, but so did the trace minerals. You also need to give peat a month or two for the Ph to adjust and you will need to SOAK it often and heavy or you will have sodium problems, like my test. If you are going to use peat, learn how to prepare it first.

My focus is talking about Phosphorus right now because that is the issue that I cannot seem to get away from. The test that I shown only had alfalfa and fish meal for P inputs and I used them very sparingly... I am also on the search for a compost that is very low in Phosphorus, I don't think that there is one... Here is Build-a-Soil's "Modern Mix w/ Oly Mnt fish compost". It didn't do all that great in pots, but it did very well in a raised flower bed??? Again, the mix is low in trace minerals... You can see a little yellowing, but nothing like when I used it in pots.
View attachment 4149474 View attachment 4149475

Mustang, We are in the same boat for sure. Regarding the high P Values I’m assuming mine must have come from my compost as well, as my nutrient ammendments were’nt crazy high on P values.

I’m starting to believe that maybe using a smaller percentage of compost in the base mix may be the way to go in container gardens?

Anyone with more knowledge on the subject care to chime in with why the beds seem to be able to buffer a rich soil better than pots?

 

[Strudelheim]

This is exactly my problem too. My squash, tomatoes, and peppers are doing wonderful in my compost. However, the exact same mix does not do very well in pots??? I am leaning towards not using manure in my compost anymore, and it sucks because I already have a system with my rabbits. Be careful when talking about compost, not everyone uses manure and they don't understand the problems that come with it... I added peat to soil that looked very similar to yours and it really didn't address the issue. The N-P-K numbers went down, but so did the trace minerals. You also need to give peat a month or two for the Ph to adjust and you will need to SOAK it often and heavy or you will have sodium problems, like my test. If you are going to use peat, learn how to prepare it first.

My focus is talking about Phosphorus right now because that is the issue that I cannot seem to get away from. The test that I shown only had alfalfa and fish meal for P inputs and I used them very sparingly... I am also on the search for a compost that is very low in Phosphorus, I don't think that there is one... Here is Build-a-Soil's "Modern Mix w/ Oly Mnt fish compost". It didn't do all that great in pots, but it did very well in a raised flower bed??? Again, the mix is low in trace minerals... You can see a little yellowing, but nothing like when I used it in pots.
View attachment 4149474 View attachment 4149475

Seems that your test is showing higher than target areas on everything other than some micros? That's based on the visual infographic. The numbers would give a better picture. Is this total, or available levels? Do you have pictures of cannabis plants in this mix?

 

[MustangStudFarm]

Seems that your test is showing higher than target areas on everything other than some micros? That's based on the visual infographic. The numbers would give a better picture. Is this total, or available levels? Do you have pictures of cannabis plants in this mix?

I could take pics, it is a problem that I am currently having. The 1st test that I shown, everything is in veg still but there is some yellowing happening... Give me a few min for the pics.

 

[MustangStudFarm]

After I got the test results back(the one you mentioned), I added some store bought worm castings but I might not have added enough when I mixed the soil? I mixed it on a tarp and I think that it didn't mix well, I recently got a cement mixer to fix that... Anyways, I am guessing that the plants that look better got more castings???

 

[Wetdog]

It’s funny, When I make soil for my raised veggie beds I do it by eye and kind of just use whats readily available and they do great. But mix a cannabis centric soil and the tinfoil hat comes out and I’m buying foreign ammendments and looking at recipes online.

You pretty much answered your own question here. First thing to realize is there is no such thing as a "Cannabis centric soil", just as there are no "cannabis specific nutes". Both are just made up marketing shit to sell stuff and provide debate for the tin foil hat crowd over which is best. "Organic" Cal/Mag seems to be a favorite here, for example.

I do one mix for everything, from Garlic, peppers, tomatos, to cannabis and the gardenia I got for my wife to remind her of the one we had in SoFl. It's pretty much the same mix I was taught in 1972 by older growers who traded their knowledge for my sweat labor mixing up batches by (their) eye. Pretty sure I could do it in my sleep. LOL The only thing that has changed is the organic amendments rather than the Jack's Classic.

There is zero compost in my mix. Thermal compost anyway, I do use a small amount of my own VC. I did try mushroom compost ...once... but never repeated that particular cluster fuck. The only recipe it bears a passing resemblance to would be LC's#1 from some years back and even that got tweaked to fit my style and environment.

There is a world of difference between growing in the ground and growing in containers and what works well in one doesn't mean it will work well in the other and vice versa. Translating soil studies (agriculture) to soiless container mixes (horticulture), is a good case in point.

Coot used to use dolomite lime in his mixes back when, then, really started bad mouthing it with the stigma still sticking today. Why? It was all based on a soil study on a soil that already was rich in Mg where the dolo caused problems. The soil in question was in the UP of Mich.Ok, worth noting if you're a farmer in the UP of Mich, but of zero relevance to a soiless container mix that has no Mg until you actually add some. That study simply did not apply to our mixes, but did end up selling a lot of oyster shell flour that Coot started touting. It's not bad stuff, but shipping rocks just doesn't make much sense.

Yow! I apologize for thr rant, but God save us from gurus. LOL

If you like, I'll post my recipe just to show you something simple and a bit different. Amendments and all. Works for me and my location, but no idea about anywhere else.

Wet