Sick girl in flowering

[danmitch1]

Hey guys, long time reader first time posting.

So ive been researching the hell out of this but there are so many possibilities that i needed to get an opinion.

I have a black dominica 100% indica (supposedly) feminized plant growing.
She is planted in a 2x4x5 milar tent
1x 600w mh during veg then switched to 600w hps for flowering.
2x 80 cfm inline filtered air intakes
1x 140 cfm inline exhaust with speed control.
1x 12 " oscillating fan blowing at canopy
1x 6" fixed fan blowing at soil level
Planted in a material bag with nearly 50 liters of miracle grow soil (big mistake )
Temperatures are roughly 27c in the day and 15ish c at night.
Rh @ 50-60% during night and 30's in the day
Light is 20" away from the top of the plant
Watering roughly twice a week with ph'd tap water at 6.5ish

I trained her vigorously during veg to obtain a "SOG" short and wide bush.
I through her into flowering December 3rd after about 2 months of veg.

So my problem began after reading that i could resume my regular feeding after a month assuming that the nutrients in the miracle grow had depleted.

After about a month that she was transplanted into the miracle grow soil and also a week before flowering I decided to feed her some 25 8 20 powdered water soluble food.

A few days later I started noticing rusty spots on the leaves indicating (from what I read) low ph.
So I measured the run off from non ph'd water going in at 7ish coming out like 4.5!!

I freaked out and flushed her with tap water nearly 4x the volume of soil in water.
For a few weeks I only watered with non ph'd tap water. The ph in the runoff improved but was still around 5.5.

The rust spots seemed to go away but now yellowing started occurring on new growth. I also noticed some burnt leaf tips.

I started feeding foxfarm big bloom for the past 2 weeks once a week (I watered regular water saturday then fed big bloom wednesday then repeated). I figured that the solution being nearly a ph of 8 would help the low soil ph.

That did not help, so more research led me to believe that it was a calcium magnesium deficiency because only the top new growth was yellowing.

I also thought maybe it was light bleaching but the light isnt that close and temps are good at the canopy level. I also felt no discomfort holding my hand under the light for more than 30 long seconds.

I decided to take a soil sample and soaked it in neutral water (1 part soil 1 part water) left it sit for an hour.
I filtered the water through a coffee filter several times to clear it up as much as possible as im using liquid indicator solution to test ph. The ph was roughly 5 maybe 5.5.

So im thinking maybe calcium magnesium lockout do to the low ph.

Being winter here in Canada my home depot did not have any liquefied lime available and it was super expensive plus long shipping time to buy online. I decided to purchase some GH ph up and give that a try before feeding any cal/mag.It should arrive next week...

For now im very worried about her as the yellowing seems to be killing the effected leaves and shes 3 weeks into flowering.

Any words of encouragement, thought and ideas are greatly appreciated !

Thanks,

Dan.

PS: The photos are under hps, I tried blocking it but it didn't work well.
Dont wanna shut her down now. I sacrificed one of the top leaves and took a pic in regular lighting.
Tomorrow before lights on ill take another pic.

 

[Bernie420]

looks p deficient to me along with mag a 25-8-20 is the wrong ratio for flower, way wrong. I dont use your products but looked at what they sell and you need to get tiger bloom to go with that big bloom. Im gunna suggest that you run three-four gallons of water that has three-four tbsp of Epsom salt mixed in through your pot then renute with the proper nutrients. to much leaf but thats just me. no info on your ppms that your feeding it. get a decent microbe product in there too even though the big bloom looked like it had some microbes in it i dont remember now but it wont hurt to add a pinch of some decent microbes with every feeding till a couple of weeks before cut.

 

[danmitch1]

Hi bernie, Thanks for your reply.
The 25 8 20 is what I used for veg, i wanted to feed that the first week of flower then switch to big boom which is 0 0.5 0.7.
I just noticed that that the big bloom is 0 point 5 point 7 i thought it was 0 5 7..too little ?
Do you think the ph is causing the deficiency?
Ill try the epsom salt after ive raised the ph of the soil a bit.
Ive never dabbled in the ppm world, dont have a tester for it.
Isnt ppm particles per million? Isnt that just too see if your over feeding?
When you talk about microbes, you mean like bacterial microbes? I think the big bloom has alot of earthworm castings bat guano in it.

Thanks for your insight!

Dan.

 

[Bernie420]

its still wrong for veg imo would rather see a 25-20-20.your big numbers not mine get a ppm meter. thats why your p def. A microbe product like great white. Get the tiger bloom use it with big bloom use it at a ph of 6.5. At about 3/4 strength to start since your plant is big and healthy. use the microbes as they will buffer and do all the work. stop worrying about ph run off so much the microbes will take care of it.

Isnt ppm particles per million? Isnt that just too see if your over feeding? yes. fyi-to many salts will kill your microbes

Do you think the ph is causing the deficiency? it could but you aren't feeding it right in your shitty soil to begin with.

go on youtube and watch the plant nutrition with harley smith video a few times along with his other videos you'll learn alot and another one I thought was a good grower that channel is called the grateful grower, he has some videos and teaches pretty good.

 

[danmitch1]

What do you use the ppm meter for, feeding? If i dont over do things do you think i could get away without it?

Could I get any microbe prod, that great white is not cheap!

If im not worrying about ph and letting the microbes take care of it, should i just return my ph up, or should I still try and bring it up?

The tiger bloom, do i feed it at the same time as the big bloom?

Im gonna go by the pharmacy later and get some epsom salt, its regular watering day so ill give a dose of it.

Thing is id like to save her without spending too much more, like a true woman she is turning into a money pit!

ill take a look at the vids you suggested after.

Thanks!

 

[Huckster79]

You can survive without ppm pen. I agree flush her out, epsom certainly cant hurt. Start out feeding her half strenghth nutes, if she looks hungry up them a bit. As a whole we way overnute these girls... nutes really arent food more like a vitamin suppliment, light truly is her food. Taking 10 vitamins a day, you may be less healthy than the guy who takes one...

Last round was my personal best, quality, and quantity, i had never fed so light! Im in coco and against much advise i fed, water, water, fed, water, water with 3/4 strenghth nutes. Whole way through, tho never let em dry out being coco.

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Look into a P/K booster. They tend to get "needy" in flower.
http://www.ilovegrowingmarijuana.com/marijuana-nutrient-deficiency-potassium
I like Moorbloom 0-10-10. Home depot has it or can get it. I use it weeks 3-5 of flower @ 1mil/gal.

 

[danmitch1]

Hi Huckster79 & Jypsy Dog, thanks for your replies.

Ok so it seems the consensus is cal /mag and p deficiency. But from everything ive read PH should be determined stable before adding more nutes, no?

As Bernie420 mentioned, maybe I should feed some microbe rich solution to help regulate the ph, but i bought some ph up to fix that.

Im thinking the ph dropped because the miracle grow soil was still releasing nutes when i added more.The nutes I added where pretty acidic...

What do you guys think of this plan.

Order This

Overkill?

Tonight feed her a couple of gallons of epsom salt solution( 2 gallons seems perfect for the amount of soil as only 30 ml of runnoff drains out)

Wait for my ph up and pk boost

Adjust my ph

Feed the pk boost at full dose then every second watering feed the pk and big bloom at 3/4

Should I flush before this ? I already flushed about 3 weeks ago, isnt it not good to flush to often?

If i flush again, shouldn't I have all the nutes ready to re introduce? Should I even worry about nitrogen at this point or after flushing just feed pk boost and big bloom epsom salt.

 

[danmitch1]

Hi Huckster79 & Jypsy Dog, thanks for your replies.

Ok so it seems the consensus is cal /mag and p deficiency. But from everything ive read PH should be determined stable before adding more nutes, no?

As Bernie420 mentioned, maybe I should feed some microbe rich solution to help regulate the ph, but i bought some ph up to fix that.

Im thinking the ph dropped because the miracle grow soil was still releasing nutes when i added more.The nutes I added where pretty acidic...

What do you guys think of this plan.

Order This View attachment 4065475

Overkill?

Tonight feed her a couple of gallons of epsom salt solution( 2 gallons seems perfect for the amount of soil as only 30 ml of runnoff drains out)

Wait for my ph up and pk boost

Adjust my ph

Feed the pk boost at full dose then every second watering feed the pk and big bloom at 3/4

Should I flush before this ? I already flushed about 3 weeks ago, isnt it not good to flush to often?

If i flush again, shouldn't I have all the nutes ready to re introduce? Should I even worry about nitrogen at this point or after flushing just feed pk boost and big bloom epsom salt.

I took some pictures just before sunrise. Not sure if we could delete the hps pics from the op?

 

[Jypsy Dog]

If you don't have your pH fixed, nothing you feed will be up taken as it should.
Open this PDF. Good info.
http://catnews.org/FREE Pot Books/Marijuana Garden Saver [2005].pdf

 

[danmitch1]

Ok thanks for the pdf, i also watched a few videos on youtube.

Last night I decided to do a 3gal flush with 3tbs of epsom salt,neutral ph.
Since i dont have my pk boost yet i gave a heavier mix in 1.5 gal of water of my big bloom after flushing .That solution was 7.5 maybe 8.
About 2gal of runoff was removed, which i didnt bother measuring ph because it got contaminated.

So now I have to wait for my pk boost and ph up to arrive. Any tips on using ph up with soil?

 

[xtsho]

Could have saved yourself some money and bought a pound of monopotassium phosphate for $10 instead of that bud booster. It's basically the same thing. But do you really want to add more stuff?

I see signs of nute burn on some of those leaves. That MiracleGrow soil likely has timed release nutrients in it so you're not flushing anything out. You're more than likely just activating it quicker by dumping tons of water into it. Also, you're not flushing anything when you add a tbs per gallon of epsom salts and then feed with a heavier mix of whatever you're using because you don't have the p/k that will likely just cause you more headaches if you dump it on your plants in that MiracleGrow soil. I'd leave them alone. Let them dry out and then alternate watering with at most half strength nutes and then plain water.

You're problem is that soil that isn't suited for cannabis. Dumping more stuff on it won't fix that.

Good luck though.

 

[danmitch1]

You are right, I can see it being over fed with nute burn too. This is also the reason im leaning towards ph being the main issue.

The miracle grow soil isnt the slow release type, it says to start feeding after 30 days.
I think i just missed the mark and fed too soon, causing the nute burn.

Then of course it was a double whammy, the over feeding caused a severe ph drop.
Locking out mag and P.

So now I believe regulating the ph should fix most of the deficiencies.

I bought the pk booster i posted for 8$, not a bad price. Once the ph is resolved Ill start a light feeding every other week.

So now my question is,

Has anyone had experience using GH liquid ph up in soil? I should be receiving it Tuesday or Wednesday.

Thanks again for your insight!

Dan.

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Ok thanks for the pdf, i also watched a few videos on youtube.

Last night I decided to do a 3gal flush with 3tbs of epsom salt.
Since i dont have my pk boost yet i gave a heavier mix in 1.5 gal of water of my big bloom after flushing .
About 2gal of runoff was removed.

So now I have to wait for my pk boost and ph up to arrive. Any tips on using ph up with soil?

You are right, I can see it being over fed with nute burn too. This is also the reason im leaning towards ph being the main issue.

The miracle grow soil isnt the slow release type, it says to start feeding after 30 days.
I think i just missed the mark and fed too soon, causing the nute burn.

Then of course it was a double whammy, the over feeding caused a severe ph drop.
Locking out mag and P.

So now I believe regulating the ph should fix most of the deficiencies.

I bought the pk booster i posted for 8$, not a bad price. Once the ph is resolved Ill start a light feeding every other week.

So now my question is,

Has anyone had experience using GH liquid ph up in soil? I should be receiving it Tuesday or Wednesday.

Thanks again for your insight!

Dan.

You use the pH adjuster to adjust your nute solution... Not the soil. Not sure what the question is.

 

[danmitch1]

Well, id like to bring up the ph of the soil 1 point before "feeding" too much.
I have a feeling there are plenty of nutes left in the soil being locked out.

I guess my question should be which water ph would safely bring up soil ph 1 point.

Like I know 2 gallons of water reaches the entire root system with very little runoff.
So if I ph 2 gallons of water to lets say 8 would that bump up the soil ph from 5.5 to 6.5?

Im assuming this would only be a temporary solution but I only have maybe 8 weeks left so i could just keep testing and adjusting till shes done.

 

[Bernie420]

You gots a bucket of water nutes or not, you get your ph tester and test the ph if it reads low 5.0 or whatever you add a little ph up to the WATER mix mix mix wait wait wait till it reads 6.5 then you water you plants. that's how you use ph up basically.

I looked at your pictures i dont think you ran a bunch of water through the plant or are even able to.

2 gallons seems perfect for the amount of soil as only 30 ml of runnoff drains out)

Your fucking up your hardwood floor i bet. That water will leach through that tent material and fucking stain and then rot that floor of yours.


Get a sheet of thick plastic between the floor and tent, get a tray to catch the runoff water. get a shopvac to suck out the runoff water out of the tray, you dont ever want the plant to just sit in that runoff swill. after that is done run 12 thats one two gallons, 12 gallons not 1.2 gallons, 12 gallons of phed to 6.5 water {since your stuck on phing shit} through the plant shop vac up that swill. Then run 2 gallons of water with about 2 tbps of epsom salt in it phed to 6.5 vac up the runoff. then feed it about a gallon and a half of properly nuted water that has a proper balance of nutrition in it phed to 6.5. vac up the swill in the tray. Resume normal feeding operations. I recommend to get some microbes in there as well. Dont use miracle grow soil again for your bud..

 

[Bernie420]

Well, id like to bring up the ph of the soil 1 point before "feeding" too much.
I have a feeling there are plenty of nutes left in the soil being locked out.

I guess my question should be which water ph would safely bring up soil ph 1 point.

Like I know 2 gallons of water reaches the entire root system with very little runoff.
So if I ph 2 gallons of water to lets say 8 would that bump up the soil ph from 5.5 to 6.5?

Im assuming this would only be a temporary solution but I only have maybe 8 weeks left so i could just keep testing and adjusting till shes done.

So if I ph 2 gallons of water to lets say 8 would that bump up the soil ph from 5.5 to 6.5? No my guess it would be a ph of 8 since your phing it to 8.

You need to flush that bitch clean out... to many salts will kill microbes. Microbes regulate soil ph in the plant world.

 

[danmitch1]

You are right, it did leak through once along the seams. Since then ive been bailing out the runoff. When i flushed on saturday, I used 3 gal then fed 1.5 gal , i bailed a bit more than 1.5 gallons of run off.

12 gallons eh!! im wondering if i should just bring her in the shower then.

 

[Bernie420]

You want to do it slow with room temp water

 

[danmitch1]

Alright, watering day.
I went out and bought a shallow 35 liter plastic storage container.
Placed a bbq vegi perforated pan, stands about 3 inches high in the container.
Sat my plant on the bbq pan.

Proceeded with a major flushing.

I have my 3 gallon watering can, 1 gal pitcher and smaller well say "scooper".
Lights come on and I start watering 3 gallons of room temperature water (neutral ish tap water @ roughly 19°c)
Little by little, let it soak in.
By now im bailing 1 gallon of runnoff at time off to the toilet.

Runoff is very dark yellow

Finished bailing out all the run off then repeat the process till ive ran 12 gallons.

Runoff still very yellow

Let the plant breath, after 20min no signs of drooping.

Flushed another 12 gallons ...and another ... started to loose count

I calculated that I flushed in a 5 hour period more than 45 gallons ( about 20 per 3 gallons )

Water was still not clear but showed a major improvement as it was just a bit yellow.

So I fed another 2 gallons with 2tbs of epsom salt, then another 1.5 with a dose of balance nutes.

Fingers crossed!

Keep you posted.