I'm in the mood to abuse my plant

[whitebb2727]

I have no issue with what you're proposing and yes in other crops its called field testing where one plot is control and different plots are treated to different level of the experiment.

Those sugar leaves are nowhere near efficient as fan leaves.

 

[Gumdrawp]

True. However, rate of photosynthesis is not dependent on 'whole leaves'. The rate of photosynthesis is dependent on the surface area that are capable of photosynthesizing.

Having said that, if you look closely at the defoliated plant, I believe, it has more than enough chloroplasts to provide photosynthesis. It's not like the plant is totally bald.

I'd challenge that it's not "more than enough" especially since chloroplasts only exist directly around the stomata on the leaves, however I concede that it will be enough to allow the buds to pack on at least some weight in the last week or two. I pluck plenty of leaves in the last few weeks, I'm not disagreeing with your premise, I just think that you by far overdid it.

Also as others have pointed out while you have a control group and a test group you don't have enough plants to establish a baseline in either group.

 

[Budley Doright]

Exactly

Well I have done a few actually and the results have led me to believe that with what I have done it didn't help. Back in the day (a long time ago lol) we were told pulling the fan leaves of helped promote better and bigger secondary branching so bigger buds, in my experience this was not true for outdoor, at least in my experience and we had some large numbers to test . Again I'm all for trying everything once, why not lol. On occasion I still pull off leaves indoors but it's due to me trying to get more plants in too small an area. Pretty much any manipulation of the plant is due to my mismanagement of allotted space . And....Well yes there are things I won't try once lol.

 

[Flowki]

Just for discussions sake it seems there is evidence that "suggest" it is a good practise as well. That is the reason this debate continues lol.

I didnt say that plants indoor doesnt experience stress. I did say that plants outdoor experience higher level of stress compared to plants indoor.


I dont know where that idea is coming from that I'm suggesting that it's good. I'm here to find out the answer to that too through sharing this experiment.

I have no problem with people 'suggesting' that it is bad. I get that and I respect that, including your post. What I dont get is when those 'suggestions' are not being close to rational as you would say and reeking of arrogance and tainted with insults....what's the point of that?

If I traded insults with them (which seems to be the norm here in RIU) I'm labeled as emotional. If I try to challenge their statements with reasons, I'm labeled as a troll. What am I suppose to do? Do nothing and accept their 'suggestions' blindly' as facts? Meanwhile what I'm doing is not precised enough for them?

Maybe I got heated one time, I'm just being me, I'll respond to politeness with politeness, insult to insult and what not. But I wont back down that's for sure.

Like I said before, the only way to settle this issue is....experiment vs experiment or any cannabis scientific studies that points out defoliation doesnt work, until then, if they dont like to defoliate their plants that's fine with me. I have no issue with that.

I guess I can reply to both of these at once. I didn't know of evidence that supports heavy defoliation but as you pointed out it exists and is keeping this debate going. What I am getting at OP, is that as it's clearly not a sure fire way of increasing yield/potency or what ever else it's speculated to do, why risk your own personal grows on this. Leave it to people who are better equipped to run such experiments is my sentiment. Should you find yourself in that position one day then by all means go ahead. As of now we have enough proven techniques and practices to increase yield and potency yet I see many people not getting those right or trying them at all. Instead they are chasing illusive practices such as defoliation where the results are far from proven. It isn't a venture I find rational in the face of other guaranteed improvements that can be made.

 

[KryptoBud]

If I traded insults with them (which seems to be the norm here in RIU) I'm labeled as emotional. If I try to challenge their statements with reasons, I'm labeled as a troll. What am I suppose to do?

Stating your objectives in the beginning of the thread would've been a good start. You chose to start a thread that screams troll with pics of a bare plants and ask "is it bad of me?" Looks like an attempt to bait people into an argument. When called on it you begin to call people experts and geniuses sarcastically. You don't mention or show your control plants until post 14, even then you had to be asked for it. How did you forget to mention you had two sets of plants, one defoliated one not? How were you going to prove it worked or didn't? You yourself said these threads are hostile, so you start one with no info, nothing constructive, and top it off with "i know it all attitude" and wonder why you're being called a troll?

 

[Budley Doright]

I guess I can reply to both of these at once. I didn't know of evidence that supports heavy defoliation but as you pointed out it exists and is keeping this debate going. What I am getting at OP, is that as it's clearly not a sure fire way of increasing yield/potency or what ever else it's speculated to do, why risk your own personal grows on this. Leave it to people who are better equipped to run such experiments is my sentiment. Should you find yourself in that position one day then by all means go ahead. As of now we have enough proven techniques and practices to increase yield and potency yet I see many people not getting those right or trying them at all. Instead they are chasing illusive practices such as defoliation where the results are far from proven. It isn't a venture I find rational in the face of other guaranteed improvements that can be made.

All I was pointing out is there are quite a few growers that swear it does work and try and prove it through videos, etc. I myself have not seen an actual study that says ya or nay, I don't due to my anecdotal evidence of trying it myself. But really are you saying not to do it because it's not proven? Are any of these controversial subjects actually proved or disproved? What is unrational with trying for yourself unproven techniques? You sound like you lead a very boring all be it rational life Flowki lol.

 

[Gquebed]

Defoliation makes bigger buds in the same way shaving your crotch makes your dick look bigger.

Mystery solved.

Next.

 

[Budley Doright]

^^^^^ well there ya go, why would anyone waste time trying it then lol.

 

[Xs121]

Damn a lot to response to

 

[Xs121]

Instead of replying to individual postings, I'll just sum it up in this post as best as I can.

1.

How many times do I have to explain why I titled this thread like that? Heck, I even apologized for it. Pls read the thread.

2.

How many times do I have to admit that this informal experiment is INCONCLUSIVE? (there in caps).

3.

How many times do I have to admit that this experiment is not controlled, that there's not enough data, not enough plant population, etc.?

4.

How many times do I have to point out that this thread is not about to convince anybody that defoliation works? It's a study(loosely).

=============

I think that pretty much sum it up.

My questions to you guys are these....

1. Assuming that this experiment is a failure, what is a few grams lost to you?
2. Since this is not a 'precise' experiment, is it a failure?

You decide and do what you want to do, either do nothing or duplicate this experiment(loosely). Either way, it doesnt matter to me.

The real conclusion to this issue is....... its not proven or proven that defoliation works.

My final thoughts and I'm ending this thread

I thought that this would be a fun experiment to do (a few grams to sacrifice is worth it) in which we can 'discuss' the different factors(hormones, environment, etc) that might be affected by defoliation, good or bad...I didnt expect to start a war(most be the longest thread in defoliation) .

So, having said that, I'm not going to re-explain and re-explaining things over and over again.

What is unrational with trying for yourself unproven techniques?

Again, Budley got it right and aptly said, yea or nay.

In that note, I'll keep the final harvest comparison to myself. If you are curious enough, do spare a few grams to try it yourself, it's not the end of the world.

Thread close or continue. I dont care.

 

[Buba Blend]

Since this thread is done and you are finished with it, I would like to ask the others a quick question.
Looking at his pictures, do you guys see the N tox or the nute burned leaves?
I'm curious. Should he flush one or two times before harvest or should the long cure be the best move?
Maybe both IDK.

 

[KryptoBud]

Since this thread is done and you are finished with it, I would like to ask the others a quick question.
Looking at his pictures, do you guys see the N tox or the nute burned leaves?
I'm curious. Should he flush one or two times before harvest or should the long cure be the best move?
Maybe both IDK.

Looks like nute burn but, who cares? I'm sure whatever happened it wasn't his fault.

 

[Flowki]

All I was pointing out is there are quite a few growers that swear it does work and try and prove it through videos, etc. I myself have not seen an actual study that says ya or nay, I don't due to my anecdotal evidence of trying it myself. But really are you saying not to do it because it's not proven? Are any of these controversial subjects actually proved or disproved? What is unrational with trying for yourself unproven techniques? You sound like you lead a very boring all be it rational life Flowki lol.

I'm saying not to do it because he's currently unequipped to accurately experiment with this, skillfully and logistically, as are most small time growers. If going to a gun fight with a knife is your idea of fun then I'll remain rationally boring. Bang.

 

[Budley Doright]

I'm saying not to do it because he's currently unequipped to accurately experiment with this, skillfully and logistically, as are most small time growers. If going to a gun fight with a knife is your idea of fun then I'll remain rationally boring. Bang.

No I try not to take a knife to a gun fight and have actually been in a bar where buddy used that line, it didn't turn out well. Not sure what that has to do with this but oh well lol.

 

[Flowki]

No I try not to take a knife to a gun fight and have actually been in a bar where buddy used that line, it didn't turn out well. Not sure what that has to do with this but oh well lol.

Did he win?

 

[Budley Doright]

Did he win?

Yes and no lol.

 

[Budley Doright]

I don't think any here are going to do an actual scientific peer reviewed study of defoliation or any other controversial technique but if you try it a few times you will probably be satisfied that what ever your doing is worth the trouble or not. Telling people not to bother trying because you know it won't work is really I think very arrogant even if meant to be of help. Like I said I've done it to lots of plants over the years and I could never get increased yields but always tell people to try it, maybe I did it wrong a thousand times lol.

 

[Lucky Luke]

I don't think any here are going to do an actual scientific peer reviewed study of defoliation or any other controversial technique but if you try it a few times you will probably be satisfied that what ever your doing is worth the trouble or not. Telling people not to bother trying because you know it won't work is really I think very arrogant even if meant to be of help. Like I said I've done it to lots of plants over the years and I could never get increased yields but always tell people to try it, maybe I did it wrong a thousand times lol.

There has been lots of cloned comparison grows though. Ive only followed a couple and those were all pretty conclusive.

I just think that there most of been some scientific studies done on it, released or not or in a different language or not. Its been cultivated for to long not to of been. People forget that just because they cannot find it on the internet, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If your a private concern and have done some of this testing in a controlled environment your probably not going to make public your results.

 

[Budley Doright]

There has been lots of cloned comparison grows though. Ive only followed a couple and those were all pretty conclusive.

I just think that there most of been some scientific studies done on it, released or not or in a different language or not. Its been cultivated for to long not to of been. People forget that just because they cannot find it on the internet, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If your a private concern and have done some of this testing in a controlled environment your probably not going to make public your results.

Well as I said I've tried and it didn't do shit so that's good enough for me so science be damned lol. Most of my growing in the early days was from clones and outdoors and honestly the plants left to themselves, other than topping early did the best. So you think the results of defoliation studies are being hidden from the public eye for corporate advantage? And honestly I don't think there has been a whole lot of studies on how to grow better plants even though it's been around so long but I'm thinking it's gonna get pretty busy pretty soon, the liquor companies are now getting involved lol.

 

[Xs121]

There has been lots of cloned comparison grows though. Ive only followed a couple and those were all pretty conclusive.

I just think that there most of been some scientific studies done on it, released or not or in a different language or not. Its been cultivated for to long not to of been. People forget that just because they cannot find it on the internet, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If your a private concern and have done some of this testing in a controlled environment your probably not going to make public your results.

You know man...I really like the way you make your statement sound like its a fact.