I'm in the mood to abuse my plant

whitebb2727 said:
Depends on strain. There have been a couple people post plants that were in soil with power out for 7 days on one and around 4 or 5 on the other. The 7 day ones were mostly dead. They could recover but not worth it. The 4 to 5 day ones looked rough and yellow.

The whole thing about hydro and air to the roots I'm not sure about. I grow numerous house plants in water with no airstones. All if them are fine.

Water exchanges 02 without an Maidstone or sprayer as long as its exposed to air.

People freak out over bacteria. Thing is I have a large fish tank that I have a couple house plants growing in. I never ad chemicals. The filters haven't been changed in a year.

Why? Good bacteria. I let the good bacteria colonize and the water is stable.

I say all this because it makes me wonder. Some use good bacteria in hydro. They can run higher temps. Any type of water system you setup for fish or plants needs to sit for a week or so for the ph to stabilize. Let good bacteria grow and I think it would be fine.
Click to expand...
I have done a lot of growing in water over the years, Small window plants, I mix tap 500ppms with RO and had some live a long time. Some continue to grow. Just topped my MJ plants yesterday. I agree strain and the health of the plant would be factors, I may mess around with doing it in the near future, I'm going to have a few spare plants to mess with. I have taken plants and left them in the dark for a few days in the past and never recorded it with pictures.
I topped my plants yesterday. Hidden in the pic is a seedling that I put in water maybe 10 days ago and it is growing. I'm going to see how long it lives.
100_6388.JPG
 
Budley Doright said:
You should take a few rooted clones and see what happens if you just let them sit in your colonized water for a few days, I would bet they don't do very well. Different plants require different amounts of DO. I use to grow in a swamp on the raised mounds, lots of aquatic plants and plants in general. In times of heavy rain we had about a day to get the pots moved to higher ground or else death would occur. Even in my flood and drain using hydroguard I would see very unhappy plants if the drain got blocked stopping the recirculated of water. Pretty sure, but not certain, that even using bennies would still require added DO but maybe it would buy some time. Cool concept though, I've seen a few floating mat type veggie grows that did well :).
Click to expand...
I have. I regularly root clones like grandma did. A cup of water. With light hitting the roots and all.

Not saying It will work for a full grow. Just saying it might. Its really dependant on good bacteria. They will probably require air stones too.

Not sure. It may be something I would try put.

I grow in swamps myself. I'm fixing to go to floating plants.

I saw them do it in Jamaica on an episode of strain hunters.
 
Budley Doright said:
Actually you brought up lighting among other things so I picked one, so irrational as it may seem you brought it up ;). And I guess it's up to the observer (you) to decide what should be tried and not tried, wether it's relevent or not? Like I said I tried it, not a controlled peer reviewed test but after trying it I decided it wasn't for me. That's all it took no more, no less.
Click to expand...

Different lighting has quantifiable, repeatable effects, just like different pot sizes etc. Defoliation has been experimented with greatly, showing extremely varied and heavily subjective effect with the carrot on a stick ''You just didn't do it right'' hooking people to try it again and again. Nothing wrong with you trying it once, nothing wrong with me pointing out it's very likely going to be a waste of time, as so many have discovered. You want to go try the old mars lights to make sure they do what the company claimed?. Maybe the thousands of other growers reporting they are shit were doing it wrong.

Xs121 said:
And what are all those tried and tested things you said that everybody should follow? Dont you realize that at some point in time somebody might have actually did an informal experiments on the very methods you said that are tried and tested? If we have to follow your logic, the world would be starving by now or this planet have turned into an arid planet. The ancient farmers believe too that their way is the best way since its tried and tested.

A lot of serious experiments are started by informal experiments which normally begins with....what if
Click to expand...

I've pointed out quite a few tried and tested methods of improvement already. Nothing wrong with experimenting with something. For example I've experimented with multiple cuttings of the same mother in the same pot, grafted together at the main stems to possibly reduce over dominance or root competition. The idea was to see if it could reduce veg time in bigger pots due to having more plants>root mass > canopy. It works very well with no hint of stress in veg/flower but proved overly difficult to keep on doing due to the very fiddly nature of grafting. In essence it's easier to use smaller pots but more of them, but could be very helpful and repeatable in some setup situations (single pot scrog perhaps). I done this experiment because while a few seeds in a pot was nothing new and not advised, using the same cuttings and grafting them together was something I found 0 info on. If I'd found the kind of info on this that is available on defoliation then I certainly would not have tried it for current setup, because people would have reported the same findings, saving me the time.

Xs121 said:
I think you're the one that's missing the point. This thread is not about how to grow mj correctly otherwise I would have declared specifically that 'defoliation is the way to increase yield' then you could correct me on that one.

Why do you want to ramp down my throat your own philosophy? Do I do that to anybody? Did I insist that my way is the only way? What is my 'unscientific' experiment have to do with being a smart grower?

A smart grower will do whatever he/she thinks is good for him or her, period.

A smart grower will listen to people like you, like me, or whoever who has an opinion and will decide for him/her what is best for him or her.

How would you know if a person can comprehend how difficult this particular experiment is? Do you? Do you even realize the hypothesis behind this experiment? All you know is that this experiment is about a defoliated plant and missing leaves. Do you even look at the bigger picture of this experiment?

Let me ask you something, since you're implying that you're so knowledgeable in this field. What is the relationship of roots to defoliation? What is the relationship of Cytokinin and Gibberellic acid to defoliation? Do you know? Heck, do you even really know the flowering structure of cannabis? I bet none of you understood the flowering structure of cannabis. Because if you do then maybe you can answer this...what are the 3 main structures of a plant...any plant for that matter aside from the root? I'm gonna give you a hint, it's not stem, leaves, and flowers.

For the longest time, the flowering structure of cannabis puzzles me. I've been devouring any botanical phytomorphology of cannabis flowering structure and aside from the basic form there's none existed that deal deeply into the flowering structure, none.
Click to expand...

Your OP made no hint what so ever of your intended purpose for cutting off all the leaves. Your second post also made no hint of any other intentions than ''does defoliation work''. People who do defoliation appear to look for one thing, yield increase. This is how your thread started out in tone and continued until you started dropping in other more complex things that were not talked about until you felt threatened. Then you loosely shift toward maturity rates, or was it curing or taste?, forgive me for getting confused on the intent of this topic. If your intent is not yield, what is your method to verify other results, even if only for yourself?.

I am not implying that I am so knowledgeable in this field. I have implied the exact opposite by advocating people should learn from others who actually are or to avoid those who are not, all be it with a hint of caution toward experienced yet bias growers. I don't need to know the inner workings of any or every aspect to perceive progress. How does sulfur interact with the plant? can't really tell you that, but I can tell you it is widely accepted to increase potency so please, give me some of that.

Xs121 said:
So maybe you can decipher what I see on this picture.
View attachment 4036030

Because this picture alone meant more than all the botanical books I've read in regards to cannabis flowering structure.
This picture alone influence my grow style (not talking about SOG), my light schedule, my feeding, my reason for defoliation.
Click to expand...

If you are on a personal crusade with no care for yield etc then you should start by mentioning this in the OP. Any comments that have undermined your growing knowledge you have brought on yourself. I won't get sucked into this mind game.
 
Last edited:
whitebb2727 said:
I have. I regularly root clones like grandma did. A cup of water. With light hitting the roots and all.

Not saying It will work for a full grow. Just saying it might. Its really dependant on good bacteria. They will probably require air stones too.

Not sure. It may be something I would try put.

I grow in swamps myself. I'm fixing to go to floating plants.

I saw them do it in Jamaica on an episode of strain hunters.
Click to expand...
I've rooted a few in water and stuck a few in the net pot beside a growing plant but don't do it regularly, not sure why I don't, it seems to work lol. The plants in the swamp when flooded die pretty fast if not moved, that's happened a few times :(. I'm not going to run a flooded system this winter and going to switch to DTW hydroton pails I think, still waffling :(.
 
Budley Doright said:
I've rooted a few in water and stuck a few in the net pot beside a growing plant but don't do it regularly, not sure why I don't, it seems to work lol. The plants in the swamp when flooded die pretty fast if not moved, that's happened a few times :(. I'm not going to run a flooded system this winter and going to switch to DTW hydroton pails I think, still waffling :(.
Click to expand...
I think the flooded swamp plants has to do with the use of soil. Its the same as overwatering a pot of soil constantly.

The floating rings I plant on using will be like aeroponics.

The roots will be in clear creek water.
 
Actually Flowki I've seen some pretty impressive mars grows lol. Thousands have said they work as well, probably so use to being attacked by the elites they've stopped posting lol. I was actually thinking of trying one with my 600's, but I guess I won't, you say it's not gonna work lol
 
whitebb2727 said:
I think the flooded swamp plants has to do with the use of soil. Its the same as overwatering a pot of soil constantly.

The floating rings I plant on using will be like aeroponics.

The roots will be in clear creek water.
Click to expand...
You may be right about the soil. I would be real interested in seeing you do this but I'm done the swamp thing. Last one I did almost killed me lol. We'll never say never, my 28 year old stepson is looking for work lol.
 
Budley Doright said:
Actually Flowki I've seen some pretty impressive mars grows lol. Thousands have said they work as well, probably so use to being attacked by the elites they've stopped posting lol. I was actually thinking of trying one with my 600's, but I guess I won't, you say it's not gonna work lol
Click to expand...

You are changing the context to serve your point, likely why you didn't quote my text. So I guess you've resorted to some troll level or turning this personal. Either way not much else to gain talking to each other.
 
Flowki said:
You are changing the context to serve your point, likely why you didn't quote my text. So I guess you've resorted to some troll level or turning this personal. Either way not much else to gain talking to each other.
Click to expand...
Yup that's me, troll lol. Your right nothing gained ;).
 
Xs121 said:
So maybe you can decipher what I see on this picture.
View attachment 4036030

Because this picture alone meant more than all the botanical books I've read in regards to cannabis flowering structure.
This picture alone influence my grow style (not talking about SOG), my light schedule, my feeding, my reason for defoliation.
Click to expand...
WTF are you talking about? :roll:
-- edit --
OK, I read your theory about root/upper mass ratio and it has merit. That's why I do most of my pruning a couple weeks before the flip. It's better to get rid of larf than fan leaves.
 
Last edited:
Flowki said:
You are changing the context to serve your point, likely why you didn't quote my text. So I guess you've resorted to some troll level or turning this personal. Either way not much else to gain talking to each other.
Click to expand...
So by not quoting you it's got personal ...... flowki Flowki :(. It got personal when I did quote you lol.
 
Buba Blend said:
I have done a lot of growing in water over the years, Small window plants, I mix tap 500ppms with RO and had some live a long time. Some continue to grow. Just topped my MJ plants yesterday. I agree strain and the health of the plant would be factors, I may mess around with doing it in the near future, I'm going to have a few spare plants to mess with. I have taken plants and left them in the dark for a few days in the past and never recorded it with pictures.
I topped my plants yesterday. Hidden in the pic is a seedling that I put in water maybe 10 days ago and it is growing. I'm going to see how long it lives.
View attachment 4036180
Click to expand...
I really want to make some floating rings that will hold netty pots. Fill with medium and plant a seedling in each one.

The spot I picked holds clear mountain water with fish living in it.

I will put the rings out with a couple anchor on each one with a bit of slack. The area never floods and the water never moves up or down more than a foot.

I think it will work great. I will be sure to take pics.
 
whitebb2727 said:
I really want to make some floating rings that will hold netty pots. Fill with medium and plant a seedling in each one.

The spot I picked holds clear mountain water with fish living in it.

I will put the rings out with a couple anchor on each one with a bit of slack. The area never floods and the water never moves up or down more than a foot.

I think it will work great. I will be sure to take pics.
Click to expand...
So trout then??? The best of both worlds ;).
 
Xs121 said:
I will not discuss what I think is a critical discovery in that picture. I got lucky that all the pistils are facing in one direction and that tiny growing bud site exposes its internal structure. That was a challenge to Flowki to figure it out since he implied that he has all the comprehension of how a plant works and what is acceptable and what is not acceptable.

But, I will share this and you already know part of the answer....

root to vegetative ratio. What I see in that picture can be controlled and manipulated and root/vegetative ratio is one of the approach to manipulate it. The ratio is based on biomass (not height or width), so any negative change in biomass in either side will trigger the plant to react to reach what is the last known optimal ratio.

This logically explain why lollipop, scrog, pruning, topping or any procedures that reduces the vegetative biomass works, restricted only by the rule of third.

What's this got to do with my theory of defoliation? This becomes subjective of course hence the experiment. Optimal ratio slows down as the plant continues its growth, it will balance growth between root and vegetative (including bud sites). At one point or another, this ratio will grind to a halt...plant has reached its maximum growth potential in a given environment. In the case of cannabis, most of the top biomass is in the flower structure (hence that picture). The flowering structure of a plant is a separate identity to that of vegetative identity, it's governed by a set of different bio-chemical signalling. Since my plant has reached maturity, the optimal biomass ratio has slowed down or even insignificant. By defoliation, I'm just reducing the bio-mass of the leaves which I believe at this point is insignificant to the optimal ratio, by doing so, I'm triggering the flowering structure not the vegetative structure to increase the optimal ratio (yes that includes the so called sugar leaves). That's my premise anyway.
Click to expand...

It would have went a long way if you'd have just started the thread with this. The reasoning is different or at-least better explained and would have made it more interesting to follow or read counter arguments to your assumptions.

As far as my knowledge goes the only questions I have to offer are these. By removing a large portion of the leaves you intend for the flower to put on weight, will that be possible when water/nutrient uptake (Unless I am badly mistaken) will also slow due to the reduction in mass?. If the plant no longer needs the leaves you are cutting off then why not drastically reduce the amount of N so that those leaves you deem useless will drop, giving the same effect as defoliating minus the abrupt stunting/stress?. Would doing it that way also offer those leaves a chance to pass on any stored nutrient/sugars or what ever dick slapping takes place to the buds before they starve?.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top