40 plants, suggestions? :)

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
Nobody is taking any licks. We all have ideas and experiences and everyone needs to just chill and take in other peoples ideas, points of view, and experience.
Wrap it all in to one and form our own opinions and put together what works for ourselves.
There is definitely more than one way to get the job done and in the end a lot does come down to personal preference.
That's why a lot of the led crowd comes across so harsh, it's like an iron fist coming down - CXB3590 3K or else!!! :peace:
Yup. That's how I'm coming across by accident too. I honestly hadn't even realized I'd briefly became, "one of them". Whoops...I'll nope the fuck right outta' that. Back to reality, lol. I think the initial findings when diving into LED research for the first time bring this on as sort of a natural tendency lol. Having a psychology background, I feel like I'm describing a mental illness phenomenon lOl.
 

Evil-Mobo

Well-Known Member
I apologize...You're right and I'm wrong. I've learned when to just take my licks and move on. Hopefully no bad blood between us in the future as I'm sure we'll interact again.
No bad blood my man and I have no problem taking "my time" to share with people when the conversation is a positive one. And including some of my comments this has not been that so my apologies as well. I just get tired of people ranting on this light vs that light when they haven't used one or both of the products that is all. Check out Onehit's thread on growing lettuce and you will see my photos and others, just because you take a grow to harvest doesn't mean you can grow. And that's me making a general statement not taking a shot at you personally. We all wanna grow the best weed we can right? One hit sent me the same lettuce seeds once and I grew it under 5K Cree COB's (3590's) on a mod 420 rig I built with parts from an advertiser on here. I have two member using lights I built and they're both enjoying them very much. I'm still learning myself and I do a lot of things not considered "proper" with my growing which is why I would never take the time to conduct a "proper" scientific experiment because everyone always finds something to bitch about. I prefer growing in organic dirt, one hit likes his hydro, we both get along very well because we are on the hunt for an LED that will give HID type results. My current COB's are what has come the closest for me and thus why I still have them for further evaluation. I am on a fixed income and work with what I have. The reason I brought up the Hortilux product is because to me they have the high end on HID on lockdown. My take (non scientifically) so far with what I do have experience with, is that LED gives you more smaller buds with louder terps (strain dependent) than HID. So you see it really is all personal preference. With my growing background in the outdoor world with fruits and veggies before ever growing a weed plant, I have a certain type of plant health that I feel is important to me, I don't care about just finishing a run, I know I can do that and sometimes shit happens and you don't. Every grow there is something and you have to be able to adjust and move on or chop your shit down. Nothing is perfect. Too many variables. I've been over this in my thread, if my plants are not healthy as I want them it will literally affect my mood, I could care less what light is hanging over them if I am not happy with "my" crop. You see what I'm getting at?

Now if you peruse the LED section there are a few well respected guys growing going back to do comparison grows because "something is not the same" after switching to LED. And they want to make sure it's them and not the lights. This is what we need. LED's have come a long way, and I'm no pro grower still learning and very passionate. But there's so much to this man it can be overwhelming. I haven't even messed with CO2 yet because I feel I still have a long way to go before I max my abilities without it. Why introduce another variable when my environment is not 100% otherwise. I don't pull punches with my logs, you will see some good plants and you will see some shitty plants. If someone learns something from a mistake I make that means more to me than saying hey guys look I hit 2 GPW, you feel me. I'm not here to brag I just want people to take all this emotion out of this shit and see it for what it is. LED has come a long way and there are benefits but it's not always the answer. the answer literally is so far as I can tell "it depends".

There is no right and wrong, if people don't do crazy shit not considered normal we never would learn anything new. One of my passions is growing auto's people associate auto's only with new growers who know nothing. I top my auto's and defoliate them and transplant them and grow them organically in dirt and my last Auto before the two I just chopped ggave me 5 zips dry in a 5 gallon SIP and she was hit with pollen from my male for my first cross to be created so she was full of seeds too. If not I would have had more flower most likely. Is this something to brag about no, but ":for me" it was a personal best. Imagine if people could consistently get 5-6 zips dry from one plant with 5 gallons of medium used every 60-70 days from seed, don't you think there is some merit in this? Most people veg for 60 days how many more crops could you grow a year.......?

This is not a simple subject and it's fun screwing around and trying new things. :mrgreen:
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
conduct a "proper" scientific experiment because everyone always finds something to bitch about.
I'll deal with the bitching. I imagine there will be a very controversial thread started by CCCmints in the near future lol...

My current COB's are what has come the closest for me and thus why I still have them for further evaluation.
Which COBs? What current are you running them at? Kelvin temp? Mixed spectrum or all the same diodes? Flowering or veg or full cycle?

if my plants are not healthy as I want them it will literally affect my mood
Symptom of true passion...really cool imo.

Now if you peruse the LED section there are a few well respected guys growing going back to do comparison grows because "something is not the same" after switching to LED. And they want to make sure it's them and not the lights. This is what we need.
I'll do my best to provide this. Really nailing this one is a long-term endeavor though.

LED has come a long way and there are benefits but it's not always the answer. the answer literally is so far as I can tell "it depends".
I concede and agree.

There is no right and wrong, if people don't do crazy shit not considered normal we never would learn anything new.
That's me. Been living in the same area for 13 years. The whole town thinks I lost my mind years ago including my inner circle, lol... I been tame a few years now no trouble (reason most of my growing isn't documented and I just became active again a month and ½ ago)...

Here's my 'crazy shit' in terms of growing cannabis and I'm not sure yet if I'm going to conduct a test for it but if I'm honest with myself I likely will. We've seen vertical growing, horizontal growing, a bit of both. Basically, we hit a portion of the plant with what we deem an appropriate amount of light and we get good results. Lets say hypothetically the 'appropriate amount of light' for a plant is 1,000 watts. What if we encased the plant in ideally a cylindrical lighting system, or more realistically a cubical lighting system with the canopy over top covered as well. 5 panels sitting in a system you can expand by remote to give space for tending to the plants: Top, North, South, East, West; 200 watts eatch. Or maybe the side panels get 150 and the top gets 600? Depends on grow style for sure. Who knows...Is it worth testing? Again, who knows...Worth thinking about? Yeah, I'm gonna keep thinking about it. My idea is that most of us if growing legally will be confined to plant count restrictions. This allows us to spend more money per plant on lights.

Shit like this is what I want to bring to the community. I owe you all. I found my passion on this site just by typing, "marijuana growing forums" into google years ago as a young man. Time to prepare (albeit in a bit quieter fashion :p) to pay y'all back. Look out for it...
 

Evil-Mobo

Well-Known Member
I'll deal with the bitching. I imagine there will be a very controversial thread started by CCCmints in the near future lol...

Which COBs? What current are you running them at? Kelvin temp? Mixed spectrum or all the same diodes? Flowering or veg or full cycle?

Symptom of true passion...really cool imo.

I'll do my best to provide this. Really nailing this one is a long-term endeavor though.

I concede and agree.

That's me. Been living in the same area for 13 years. The whole town thinks I lost my mind years ago including my inner circle, lol... I been tame a few years now no trouble (reason most of my growing isn't documented and I just became active again a month and ½ ago)...

Here's my 'crazy shit' in terms of growing cannabis and I'm not sure yet if I'm going to conduct a test for it but if I'm honest with myself I likely will. We've seen vertical growing, horizontal growing, a bit of both. Basically, we hit a portion of the plant with what we deem an appropriate amount of light and we get good results. Lets say hypothetically the 'appropriate amount of light' for a plant is 1,000 watts. What if we encased the plant in ideally a cylindrical lighting system, or more realistically a cubical lighting system with the canopy over top covered as well. 5 panels sitting in a system you can expand by remote to give space for tending to the plants: Top, North, South, East, West; 200 watts eatch. Or maybe the side panels get 150 and the top gets 600? Depends on grow style for sure. Who knows...Is it worth testing? Again, who knows...Worth thinking about? Yeah, I'm gonna keep thinking about it. My idea is that most of us if growing legally will be confined to plant count restrictions. This allows us to spend more money per plant on lights.

Shit like this is what I want to bring to the community. I owe you all. I found my passion on this site just by typing, "marijuana growing forums" into google years ago as a young man. Time to prepare (albeit in a bit quieter fashion :p) to pay y'all back. Look out for it...
I'm running 3500K AutoCobs in one of my 3x3's and my Blue MH will be coming down in the second 3x3 as soon as the other order I placed for more arrives. I did use the 6500K COB's in veg for what I want to do with the second 3x3 the 3500K will be better and give me a broader spectrum to run on my auto's start to finish. The 6500K did VERY well for me though in veg. Pics in my thread. I tried the QB's and they just were not for me not that they're bad or don't work etc, I just liked other things about these single engine COB's better, mainly the ability to add/remove more light so easily and being able to adjust each individually is a golden plus for me as I am always running plants in different stages of life and different strains.

My 4x8 will stay with the (2) Hortilux 600 watt Gold E-Ballast and the Hortilux Super Enhanced HPS bulbs. I have (2) of these ballast pushing (2) of these bulbs in Raptor hoods in my 4x8 and they're just killing it right now. So My third 600 watt ballast will come back down with the Hortilux Blue MH in my second 3x3 and be a spare for my 4x8 and there will be four more of the AutoCob's going in there just like my other 3x3. I will grow on as is like this for a bit and then re assess whether to leave the HPS in my 4x8 or going to AutoCob's there as well. So I guess in the interim you could say I am vegging my photo plants with COB's and flowering them out with HPS and my auto's will run full cycle with the COB's.
 

kermit2692

Well-Known Member
So many things i don't agree with In this thread such as the straw man assertions that you need to change bulbs every three months, but, i'll keep it simple.

Hps all the way.
There's a place for leds..
It's called the veg room.
 

Michael Huntherz

Well-Known Member
So many things i don't agree with In this thread such as the straw man assertions that you need to change bulbs every three months, but, i'll keep it simple.

Hps all the way.
There's a place for leds..
It's called the veg room.
Way to oversimplify it! The saga (LED vs HPS) continues. I have no interest in continuing that debate right now, but I definitely agree nobody needs to change their HID bulbs every three months. This thread was fun to read, because everyone got over their shit and stayed pretty civil.
 

TurboTokes

Well-Known Member
I skipped past the 2 pages of you 2 idiots arguing because youre cool.

One thing everyone seems to forget is COB and LED degrade steeply after a period of time aswell. 3 years and its due for an overhaul aswell.

I change my hps/mh bulb after 2000hours. And run very affordable Apollo bulbs on sale usually for 20 each
 

MMJ Dreaming 99

Well-Known Member
LED vs HPS? No-brainer. HPS is inferior and there are no arguments yet to contest that.


How many watts? I’d build LED fixtures that will at-least match, but may outperform 1000w HPS DE fixtures. I’ve designed one that costs less than $750. You can buy a timber light or one of the other high-end fixtures if you want, but you won’t have the luxury of designing your space around the exact specifications of your fixture. Your initial investment will also be nearly doubled.


The closest Timber LED fixture to my design for a 4’x4’ space is the Redwood CS 4’x4’ (which is a very new product of theirs btw)running you $1,399.00 per fixture. This produces 1420 μmol/s (PPF) and 953 μmol/s (PPFD - covering a 4’x4’ space).


Now if you built your own fixtures, you could do 9x Vero 29 SE Gen 7 3000k COBs running @ 38.7 voltage x 2.1 amperage producing 81.27 watts per diode bringing the total power draw to 731.43 watts encased within a 3’x3’ fixture if you wish or even 4’x4’; it depends on other factors. The PPF for this fixture would be 1647.018 μmol/s with a 4’x4’ PPFD of 1105.381. Half the price of buying from a high-end manufacturer with 14.8038% more usable light output. Only difference being the Redwood TS 4’x4’ claims to achieve its light output with 600 watts while mine draws around 730…But, we must remember its best to assume the numbers advertised by a manufacturer pushing their product are probably skewed a bit. Its also important to note that the pictures Timber uses for their fixtures aren’t always the exact product they’re advertising to be sold (I’ve confirmed this myself) so you’d want to take that into consideration as well when considering the validity of the numbers they advertise.


For 40 “very large plants”, I’d consider 2 plants per fixture. So, 14,628.60 watts total (20 fixtures). People are approaching 2 GPW (Gramps Per Watt) with LED these days. I’d put everything I own on there being someone out there running a room @ 2 GPW consistently with LED. @ 1.2 GPW you’d be just barely under a L per plant (0.979lbs – to be exact). So a 40lb harvest…Which is dependent upon many other factors of-course such as the ability to maintain optimal RH (Relative Humidity), optimal ambient temperatures, adequate ventilation, stabilized fire genetics, substrate system type, nutrients, CO2 supplementation, etc., throughout the entire course of your growing cycle.


The price isn’t low because I cut corners btw. Every component is of the highest quality available. My fixture even uses the exact same heat sinks as Timber’s, which are considered to be the best on the market currently and the dude that produces them is a cool guy. Its also a highly efficient COB LED relative to other designs.



Solis Tek’s 1000 watt HPS DE advertises >2,000 μmol/s meaning 1342.28 PPFD for a 4’x4’ space. Problem is, bulb degradation. Its been tested that the light out put of this bulb is reduced by 28% after 3 months of 12/12 use. So initial output is >2000 PPF and after 3 months you’re at 1440 PPF. Initial PPF if you built out my design, 1647.018 μmol/s with minimal degradation. You want big plants, your cycle is going to be at-least 3 months, testing would be required to determine when HPS’ light output becomes inferior to the LED fixture. Maybe do the community a favor and acquire some meters to collect/post that data for us :)
What driver do you use with your 9 COB LED rig? Heat sink? Will 9x Vero 29 SE Gen 7 3000k match or beat 1000 Watt HPS SE or DE? Thanks bro.
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
I'm running 3500K AutoCobs in one of my 3x3's and my Blue MH will be coming down in the second 3x3 as soon as the other order I placed for more arrives. I did use the 6500K COB's in veg for what I want to do with the second 3x3 the 3500K will be better and give me a broader spectrum to run on my auto's start to finish. The 6500K did VERY well for me though in veg. Pics in my thread. I tried the QB's and they just were not for me not that they're bad or don't work etc, I just liked other things about these single engine COB's better, mainly the ability to add/remove more light so easily and being able to adjust each individually is a golden plus for me as I am always running plants in different stages of life and different strains.

My 4x8 will stay with the (2) Hortilux 600 watt Gold E-Ballast and the Hortilux Super Enhanced HPS bulbs. I have (2) of these ballast pushing (2) of these bulbs in Raptor hoods in my 4x8 and they're just killing it right now. So My third 600 watt ballast will come back down with the Hortilux Blue MH in my second 3x3 and be a spare for my 4x8 and there will be four more of the AutoCob's going in there just like my other 3x3. I will grow on as is like this for a bit and then re assess whether to leave the HPS in my 4x8 or going to AutoCob's there as well. So I guess in the interim you could say I am vegging my photo plants with COB's and flowering them out with HPS and my auto's will run full cycle with the COB's.
Yeah, I've looked into the quantum boards, and although they are interesting, I share some of your same views on why I don't particularly like them. Especially when comparing them to COB LED fixtures.

You're experiencing success vegging with COB LED. I'm a noob in the spectrum game, so I don't know much about the K temps like 6500k, but I'm glad you experienced success with them. I'll probably look through your thread a bit more thoroughly today to see everything you're working with. Could you teach me a bit about this "AutoCob" you keep referencing? Is that a pre-built fixture you purchased from a manufacturer? Which manufacturer and even better, could you maybe provide the model # so I can look into the specs of that fixture. Realistically, I can see LED dominating VEG with no issue, but I'm not sure yet if LED is ready to compete for real with HPS in the flowering stage. I'm conducting the tests soon now that I've got an investor on board (as of today), so we'll see the numbers soon enough...But until then, idk.


So many things i don't agree with In this thread such as the straw man assertions that you need to change bulbs every three months, but, i'll keep it simple.

Hps all the way.
There's a place for leds..
It's called the veg room.
They aren't straw man assertions. They are figures pulled from a respected member of another forum using a quantum sensor to test the 1000w Solis Tek DE Bulb over the course of 3 months. He recorded a 28% deficit in light degradation a month 3 of running the bulb 12/12. While I agree this figure seems high, I will be doing my own tests in the near future. If I record the same numbers, I'm done caring how long people think HPS bulbs can last. I'm going to stick by the data and make my lighting system choices based upon the data I personally collect. I actually find it mind blowing that people take numbers from a manufacturer's page, where they are pushing products they want to profit from, and they're like "Look dude, the company that made this product says it does this. Why are you disputing it?".

I skipped past the 2 pages of you 2 idiots arguing because youre cool.

One thing everyone seems to forget is COB and LED degrade steeply after a period of time aswell. 3 years and its due for an overhaul aswell.

I change my hps/mh bulb after 2000hours. And run very affordable Apollo bulbs on sale usually for 20 each
I think the word idiot is best reserved for people who use that insult AFTER an argument has already been hashed out and everyone is on good terms. So if you'd like to think about directing that insult towards someone in this thread again, by all means go ahead, but don't feel bad if you then think it best represents you :/ May I ask your reasoning behind changing the bulbs every 2,000 hours? Did you use a quantum sensor to determine after a certain period of time your light was not producing enough PPF for it to be ran for another cycle without the need for replacement? Or was it one of those 'simple guy, educated guess' types of things? That's only a 59.7% longer life compared to the data recorded by a quantum sensor observing a 1000w Solis Tek DE bulb. So what then, you need to replace the bulbs every 2 cycles? Still expensive. Still doesn't make up for the cost savings LED would bring if it is proven to be a viable alternative. Should we believe you, the random non-science/math guessing guy, or should we believe the respected member of another community who actually tested the bulb himself with a quantum sensor? Hmm. I wonder...Regardless, I'll be doing the tests myself much sooner than I had originally thought. Hopefully LED makes it so we don't have that expense. At least you're not one of those people who listens to manufacturer's advertisements claiming you can run these bulbs 12/12 for an entire year without needing to replace your bulbs.

How about we just stop this stupid divide between people growing cannabis with different lighting systems. I am shocked that no one's actually taken the time to produce a proper experiment which would end all of this bickering and name calling. But don't worry, as of today I am now in a position where I can provide that to the community. Soon we will have the answers we're arguing and speculating about. Cut out the negativity, and lets find these answers. Because in reality, we're all on the same team. I don't want you to grow in a worse system than me. I want us all to grow in the best system available on the market today with the best technology there is.
 

TurboTokes

Well-Known Member
2 cycles? Simple man educated guess yourself...

12h per day, hps is installed 50 days... Go get your calc.

Glad you hashed out your bromance after being a teen princess amd wasting your day
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
2 cycles? Simple man educated guess yourself...

12h per day, hps is installed 50 days... Go get your calc

Glad you hashed out your bromance after bringa teen princess
Yeah, you seem like a VERY simple man. That's why you should stay away from throwing insults around (especially regarding topics like this) because you're one of the little guys no one ever really considers relevant. The question is, WHY do you change your bulbs after 2,000 hours? What led you to make that decision? Did you just harvest half of what you expected and think maybe its because your bulbs fucking suck now that you've ran them 3 cycles in a row without replacing them?

You asked, so I will grab my calc. You familiar with the whole 50,000 LED life claims? Yeah, at 12/12, in a perpetual with the flower room running those lights every single day, you're looking at nearly 11 and a half years before its time to replace them. Am I claiming that to be true? No, I'm going to test it myself (because I'm not one of the simple irrelevant guys, and never have been in any aspect of my life). So how about you go get your calculator out then come back and let me know if you coming in here throwing insults at people was a good idea.

Or you could just save yourself further embarrassment and hop off the thread, back into simple irrelevant noob land.

Peace.
 
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