Mark Blyth, the economist who's making sense

[Padawanbater2]

Sanders' movement to the right began in May, when he came out in support of Heath Mello, a Mayoral race candidate in Kansas who was anti choice but "Sanders said it's OK, so, it's OK, end of story."

That was an event sponsored by the DNC as part of their "Come Together, Fight Back" tour, that included Vice Chair Keith Ellison and Nebraska Democratic Party Chair Jane Kleeb, that was also supported by Tom Perez

This article was very revealing to me in that it describes Sanders "Our Revoloution" reform effort as extending broad support to Democrats that you would almost definitely call conservative. Also Moderate Republicans who are only moderate in relation to the radical right now in power.

What candidates does OurRevolution support you "would almost definitely call conservative" or "moderate in relation to the radical right"? Can you cite a few people?

He's going squishy on health care

“Of course we are, we’re tweaking the final points of the bill and we’re figuring out how we can mount a national campaign to bring people together,” Sanders told Jake Tapper on CNN’s State of the Union.

Sanders: I'm 'absolutely' introducing single-payer healthcare bill

"It has been the goal of Democrats since Franklin D. Roosevelt to create a universal health care system guaranteeing health care to all people. Every other major industrialized nation has done so. It is time for this country to join them and fulfill the legacy of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson and other great Democrats."

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind

He's not even mentioning civil rights and racial issues

Racial justice has been on his platform since day 1 and he's been an advocate for civil rights his entire adult life

"We must pursue policies to transform this country into a nation that affirms the value of its people of color. That starts with addressing the five central types of violence waged against black, brown and indigenous Americans: physical, political, legal, economic and environmental."

Racial Justice

“And by the way, I think again we probably should have a resolution passed in Congress which I hope can pass unanimously condemning neo-Nazism and white racism,” Sanders said in an interview on “Andrea Mitchell Reports.”

Bernie Sanders Wants A Congressional Resolution To Condemn ‘Neo-Nazism’ And ‘White Racism’

Bernie Sanders on Civil Rights

19 Examples of Bernie Sanders' Powerful Record on Civil and Human Rights Since the 1950s

Sanders NAACP Rating

His "Our Revolution" reform movement is courting moderately conservative Republican candidates

Like who?

Bernie's policies regarding racial issues do not exist.

Here are Sanders' policy positions on how to combat racism, beginning with physical violence;

• We must demilitarize our police forces so they don’t look and act like invading armies.
• We must invest in community policing. Only when we get officers into the communities, working within neighborhoods before trouble arises, do we develop the relationships necessary to make our communities safer together. Among other things, that means increasing civilian oversight of police departments.
• We must create a police culture that allows for good officers to report the actions of bad officers without fear of retaliation and allows for a department to follow through on such reports.
• We need police forces that reflect the diversity of our communities, including in the training academies and leadership.
• At the federal level, we need to establish a new model police training program that reorients the way we do law enforcement in this country. With input from a broad segment of the community including activists and leaders from civil rights organizations we will reinvent how we police America.
• We need to federally fund and require body cameras for law enforcement officers to make it easier to hold them accountable.
• We need to require police departments and states to collect data on all police shootings and deaths that take place while in police custody and make that data public.
• We need new rules on the allowable use of force. Police officers need to be trained to de-escalate confrontations and to humanely interact with people who have mental illnesses.
• States and localities that make progress in this area should get more federal justice grant money. Those that do not should get their funding slashed.
• We need to make sure federal resources are there to crack down on the illegal activities of hate groups.

He goes on to address political violence, legal violence, economic violence, and environmental violence in very specific policy focused ways, here

Social equality makes white people uncomfortable and that's the base he's courting.

How do you believe Sanders policies disproportionately benefit white people? Cite a specific policy that targets white people

He's kind of doing a Democratic version of Reagan's courting of Democratic party white moderate voters. Except Bernie is courting moderate conservatives. White people, mostly.

What policies does Sanders support that specifically target white moderate conservatives?

Campaign finance reform resonates well with these left and right moderates. I think he'll keep this as a centerpiece of his policies. But I think that's the only issue anybody can count on from Bernie right now.

Not from my experience. Conservatives generally support the current system of campaign finance, some have even cited 1st amendment rights as legal justification

Sanders is going to sponsor a medicare for all bill. Universal healthcare is one of his top priorities heading into 2018 and 2020

Bernie never was a leftist. Leans left, sure. But best described as moderate fiscal liberal with socially conservative policies. Basically status quo.

So it's been established by his voting record and NAACP rating that Sanders is undoubtedly progressive on the issues and has been particularly engaged in racial issues his entire political career, always voting in the right direction. It would be pretty tough to make the case that he is either fiscally moderate or socially conservative

Healthcare you might ask? Why am I saying he's moving to the right regarding healthcare? Because he no longer says it's a necessary policy in his "Our Revolution" reform. How is this any different from Feinstein and Clinton, @Padawanbater2 ?

Sanders considers enacting a system of universal healthcare a top priority, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he doesn't support it when every interview he's given about it proves he does

That he's surrendering to systematic racism in order to cater to the left and right white majority makes him socially conservative to my mind.

How is Sanders "surrendering to systematic racism"?

 

[st0wandgrow]

That was an event sponsored by the DNC as part of their "Come Together, Fight Back" tour, that included Vice Chair Keith Ellison and Nebraska Democratic Party Chair Jane Kleeb, that was also supported by Tom Perez

What candidates does OurRevolution support you "would almost definitely call conservative" or "moderate in relation to the radical right"? Can you cite a few people?

“Of course we are, we’re tweaking the final points of the bill and we’re figuring out how we can mount a national campaign to bring people together,” Sanders told Jake Tapper on CNN’s State of the Union.

Sanders: I'm 'absolutely' introducing single-payer healthcare bill

"It has been the goal of Democrats since Franklin D. Roosevelt to create a universal health care system guaranteeing health care to all people. Every other major industrialized nation has done so. It is time for this country to join them and fulfill the legacy of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson and other great Democrats."

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind

Racial justice has been on his platform since day 1 and he's been an advocate for civil rights his entire adult life

"We must pursue policies to transform this country into a nation that affirms the value of its people of color. That starts with addressing the five central types of violence waged against black, brown and indigenous Americans: physical, political, legal, economic and environmental."

Racial Justice

“And by the way, I think again we probably should have a resolution passed in Congress which I hope can pass unanimously condemning neo-Nazism and white racism,” Sanders said in an interview on “Andrea Mitchell Reports.”

Bernie Sanders Wants A Congressional Resolution To Condemn ‘Neo-Nazism’ And ‘White Racism’

Bernie Sanders on Civil Rights

19 Examples of Bernie Sanders' Powerful Record on Civil and Human Rights Since the 1950s

Sanders NAACP Rating

Like who?

Here are Sanders' policy positions on how to combat racism, beginning with physical violence;

He goes on to address political violence, legal violence, economic violence, and environmental violence in very specific policy focused ways, here

How do you believe Sanders policies disproportionately benefit white people? Cite a specific policy that targets white people

What policies does Sanders support that specifically target white moderate conservatives?

Not from my experience. Conservatives generally support the current system of campaign finance, some have even cited 1st amendment rights as legal justification

Sanders is going to sponsor a medicare for all bill. Universal healthcare is one of his top priorities heading into 2018 and 2020

So it's been established by his voting record and NAACP rating that Sanders is undoubtedly progressive on the issues and has been particularly engaged in racial issues his entire political career, always voting in the right direction. It would be pretty tough to make the case that he is either fiscally moderate or socially conservative

Sanders considers enacting a system of universal healthcare a top priority, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he doesn't support it when every interview he's given about it proves he does

How is Sanders "surrendering to systematic racism"?

 

[Fogdog]

That was an event sponsored by the DNC as part of their "Come Together, Fight Back" tour, that included Vice Chair Keith Ellison and Nebraska Democratic Party Chair Jane Kleeb, that was also supported by Tom Perez

What candidates does OurRevolution support you "would almost definitely call conservative" or "moderate in relation to the radical right"? Can you cite a few people?

“Of course we are, we’re tweaking the final points of the bill and we’re figuring out how we can mount a national campaign to bring people together,” Sanders told Jake Tapper on CNN’s State of the Union.

Sanders: I'm 'absolutely' introducing single-payer healthcare bill

"It has been the goal of Democrats since Franklin D. Roosevelt to create a universal health care system guaranteeing health care to all people. Every other major industrialized nation has done so. It is time for this country to join them and fulfill the legacy of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson and other great Democrats."

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind

Racial justice has been on his platform since day 1 and he's been an advocate for civil rights his entire adult life

"We must pursue policies to transform this country into a nation that affirms the value of its people of color. That starts with addressing the five central types of violence waged against black, brown and indigenous Americans: physical, political, legal, economic and environmental."

Racial Justice

“And by the way, I think again we probably should have a resolution passed in Congress which I hope can pass unanimously condemning neo-Nazism and white racism,” Sanders said in an interview on “Andrea Mitchell Reports.”

Bernie Sanders Wants A Congressional Resolution To Condemn ‘Neo-Nazism’ And ‘White Racism’

Bernie Sanders on Civil Rights

19 Examples of Bernie Sanders' Powerful Record on Civil and Human Rights Since the 1950s

Sanders NAACP Rating

Like who?

Here are Sanders' policy positions on how to combat racism, beginning with physical violence;

He goes on to address political violence, legal violence, economic violence, and environmental violence in very specific policy focused ways, here

How do you believe Sanders policies disproportionately benefit white people? Cite a specific policy that targets white people

What policies does Sanders support that specifically target white moderate conservatives?

Not from my experience. Conservatives generally support the current system of campaign finance, some have even cited 1st amendment rights as legal justification

Sanders is going to sponsor a medicare for all bill. Universal healthcare is one of his top priorities heading into 2018 and 2020

So it's been established by his voting record and NAACP rating that Sanders is undoubtedly progressive on the issues and has been particularly engaged in racial issues his entire political career, always voting in the right direction. It would be pretty tough to make the case that he is either fiscally moderate or socially conservative

Sanders considers enacting a system of universal healthcare a top priority, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he doesn't support it when every interview he's given about it proves he does

How is Sanders "surrendering to systematic racism"?

You've been sheep dogged. Universal healthcare is not a top priority. Top priority is winning back Congress as it should be.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/348258-sanders-single-payer-isnt-a-litmus-test-for-dems

He isn't hard line about universal healthcare. Candidates don't have to endorse the policy to get backing from his "Our Revolution" reform movement.
Same goes with women's rights; http://www.npr.org/2017/04/20/524962482/sanders-defends-campaigning-for-anti-abortion-rights-democrat
Same goes with other social justice issues; http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democrats-identity-politics-231710

About the only issue that he's stood fast on is reforming campaign finance. And that's still good enough for me. For now.

I'm OK with all of his changes in position. His weakness on issues affecting minorities and women is in fact status quo. He's not saying anything new here at all. He's downplaying social justice issues to attract white voters. He says "people are tired of pc" after 8 years of a black president. Exhausted. By "people" he means white people. Don't think this nuance isn't heard loud and clear by minority communities.

He's bringing together white voters and ensuring his policies won't offend their white pride. This is selling out to systematic racism. This is the policy of continuation of racial economic stratification where African Americans and Hispanic Americans make 80% of what white Americans do. I'm disappointed that work started under Obama's administration to confront racial issues will take the back seat with the coalition that Sanders is organizing.

But don't take me as saying the strategy won't work. I think it will. Unifying moderate left and right white people will create a strong majority and allow us to take seats in Congress in 2018. African Americans and Hispanic Americans will acquiesce, assuming a "Our Revolution" platform is adopted in 2020 or sooner because there is no place for them in the Republican Party. Again, this is status quo, maybe a small retreat from where we were under the Obama administration.

The policies and links you quote are all old. Some pages contain information that was current in 2012.

This is from August 9, 2017:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-sanders-movement-is-only-just-beginning/2016/08/09/228b8744-5d87-11e6-9d2f-b1a3564181a1_story.html?utm_term=.a8218e9dd555

 

[SneekyNinja]

The mislabeled ones.

These are the same short bus riders who keep calling the Nazi Party a socialist organization.

It's the name.

They don't realize "National Socialism" is not "Socialism".

Sad!

 

[ttystikk]

That was an event sponsored by the DNC as part of their "Come Together, Fight Back" tour, that included Vice Chair Keith Ellison and Nebraska Democratic Party Chair Jane Kleeb, that was also supported by Tom Perez

What candidates does OurRevolution support you "would almost definitely call conservative" or "moderate in relation to the radical right"? Can you cite a few people?

“Of course we are, we’re tweaking the final points of the bill and we’re figuring out how we can mount a national campaign to bring people together,” Sanders told Jake Tapper on CNN’s State of the Union.

Sanders: I'm 'absolutely' introducing single-payer healthcare bill

"It has been the goal of Democrats since Franklin D. Roosevelt to create a universal health care system guaranteeing health care to all people. Every other major industrialized nation has done so. It is time for this country to join them and fulfill the legacy of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, Lyndon B. Johnson and other great Democrats."

Medicare for All: Leaving No One Behind

Racial justice has been on his platform since day 1 and he's been an advocate for civil rights his entire adult life

"We must pursue policies to transform this country into a nation that affirms the value of its people of color. That starts with addressing the five central types of violence waged against black, brown and indigenous Americans: physical, political, legal, economic and environmental."

Racial Justice

“And by the way, I think again we probably should have a resolution passed in Congress which I hope can pass unanimously condemning neo-Nazism and white racism,” Sanders said in an interview on “Andrea Mitchell Reports.”

Bernie Sanders Wants A Congressional Resolution To Condemn ‘Neo-Nazism’ And ‘White Racism’

Bernie Sanders on Civil Rights

19 Examples of Bernie Sanders' Powerful Record on Civil and Human Rights Since the 1950s

Sanders NAACP Rating

Like who?

Here are Sanders' policy positions on how to combat racism, beginning with physical violence;

He goes on to address political violence, legal violence, economic violence, and environmental violence in very specific policy focused ways, here

How do you believe Sanders policies disproportionately benefit white people? Cite a specific policy that targets white people

What policies does Sanders support that specifically target white moderate conservatives?

Not from my experience. Conservatives generally support the current system of campaign finance, some have even cited 1st amendment rights as legal justification

Sanders is going to sponsor a medicare for all bill. Universal healthcare is one of his top priorities heading into 2018 and 2020

So it's been established by his voting record and NAACP rating that Sanders is undoubtedly progressive on the issues and has been particularly engaged in racial issues his entire political career, always voting in the right direction. It would be pretty tough to make the case that he is either fiscally moderate or socially conservative

Sanders considers enacting a system of universal healthcare a top priority, I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that he doesn't support it when every interview he's given about it proves he does

How is Sanders "surrendering to systematic racism"?

Very thorough.

Fogsmog, you've had every single bullshit talking point you've been pushing for months about Bernie's positions systematically refuted, complete with citations and sources.

That's your plate of crow. Enjoy your dinner.

More to the point, exactly why are you so stuck on tearing down someone who do obviously backs pretty much everything you want from our government? That's the most glaringly irrational problem with your arguments.

 

[ttystikk]

You've been sheep dogged. Universal healthcare is not a top priority. Top priority is winning back Congress as it should be.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/348258-sanders-single-payer-isnt-a-litmus-test-for-dems

He isn't hard line about universal healthcare. Candidates don't have to endorse the policy to get backing from his "Our Revolution" reform movement.
Same goes with women's rights; http://www.npr.org/2017/04/20/524962482/sanders-defends-campaigning-for-anti-abortion-rights-democrat
Same goes with other social justice issues; http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democrats-identity-politics-231710

About the only issue that he's stood fast on is reforming campaign finance. And that's still good enough for me. For now.

I'm OK with all of his changes in position. His weakness on issues affecting minorities and women is in fact status quo. He's not saying anything new here at all. He's downplaying social justice issues to attract white voters. He says "people are tired of pc" after 8 years of a black president. Exhausted. By "people" he means white people. Don't think this nuance isn't heard loud and clear by minority communities.

He's bringing together white voters and ensuring his policies won't offend their white pride. This is selling out to systematic racism. This is the policy of continuation of racial economic stratification where African Americans and Hispanic Americans make 80% of what white Americans do. I'm disappointed that work started under Obama's administration to confront racial issues will take the back seat with the coalition that Sanders is organizing.

But don't take me as saying the strategy won't work. I think it will. Unifying moderate left and right white people will create a strong majority and allow us to take seats in Congress in 2018. African Americans and Hispanic Americans will acquiesce, assuming a "Our Revolution" platform is adopted in 2020 or sooner because there is no place for them in the Republican Party. Again, this is status quo, maybe a small retreat from where we were under the Obama administration.

The policies and links you quote are all old. Some pages contain information that was current in 2012.

This is from August 9, 2017:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-sanders-movement-is-only-just-beginning/2016/08/09/228b8744-5d87-11e6-9d2f-b1a3564181a1_story.html?utm_term=.a8218e9dd555

I don't see anyone else planning to introduce universal healthcare.

Give us a break, fogsmog.

 

[Fogdog]

I don't see anyone else planning to introduce universal healthcare.

Give us a break, fogsmog.

Why should I?

Bernie as much said that he knows universal healthcare isn't popular in a lot of districts. Same with women's reproductive rights. I can only intepret this as saying he's willing to trade immediate passage of bills to expand and protect these rights for campaign finance reform.

After a year of grandiose entitled rants you are now at this point of saying:

"I'm ok if we reform campaign finance. And that's all we get done."

Well welcome to reality.

 

[Fogdog]

Very thorough.

Fogsmog, you've had every single bullshit talking point you've been pushing for months about Bernie positions systematically refuted, complete with citations and sources.

That's your plate of crow. Enjoy your dinner.

More to the point, exactly why are you so stuck on tearing down someone who do obviously backs pretty much everything you want from our government? That's the most glaringly irrational problem with your arguments.

Get your hearing checked. I don't think you have been listening. Practically every issue you've been ranting about has just been red lined by Bernie.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Universal healthcare is not a top priority. Top priority is winning back Congress as it should be.

http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/348258-sanders-single-payer-isnt-a-litmus-test-for-dems

He isn't hard line about universal healthcare. Candidates don't have to endorse the policy to get backing from his "Our Revolution" reform movement.

“Do I think they can win without supporting single-payer? I’m skeptical. Among the people who consider themselves progressive, who vote in the primaries, there’s clearly movement toward Medicare for All.” -Bernie Sanders

He's pretty clear how he feels about it. He's been a vocal supporter of universal healthcare since the 90s at least

Bernie Sanders on Health Care

Same goes with women's rights; http://www.npr.org/2017/04/20/524962482/sanders-defends-campaigning-for-anti-abortion-rights-democrat

Does the same go for Tom Perez and the DNC, too, since they sponsored it?

Same goes with other social justice issues; http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/bernie-sanders-democrats-identity-politics-231710

"Bernie Sanders said Monday that the path to success for Democrats has to be through more than just identity politics, adding that it’s simply not enough for the party to base its appeals on diversity.

“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,”

He's right. Hillary Clinton lost campaigning almost exclusively on identity politics. What exactly do you disagree with his quote that it will take "more than just" identity politics for the Democratic party to win elections? The evidence is the outcome of the 216 election

"Clinton’s message was devoid of policy discussions in a way not seen in the previous four presidential contests."

2016 Election Study

I'm OK with all of his changes in position. His weakness on issues affecting minorities and women is in fact status quo. He's not saying anything new here at all. He's downplaying social justice issues to attract white voters. He says "people are tired of pc" after 8 years of a black president. Exhausted. By "people" he means white people. Don't think this nuance isn't heard loud and clear by minority communities.

Sanders' voting record and consistently high rating from the NAACP proves his strength on issues affecting minorities and women. He's not downplaying social justice issues, he's simply saying that while those issues are important, they are not enough to win national elections, as the 2016 general election proved. Any successful Democratic candidate has to address the economic issues facing the country, too. Economic racism affects millions of minorities, working towards fixing the wage and income disparity, increasing the minimum wage and enacting paid maternity/paternity leave benefit minorities the most while helping decrease poverty. Adopting a system of free college would help poor and minority communities, too, and people would have more opportunity to earn a better living

He's bringing together white voters and ensuring his policies won't offend their white pride.

What policies does Sanders not support or oppose that would benefit minorities because it would "offend white voters pride"?

This is selling out to systematic racism. This is the policy of continuation of racial economic stratification where African Americans and Hispanic Americans make 80% of what white Americans do. I'm disappointed that work started under Obama's administration to confront racial issues will take the back seat with the coalition that Sanders is organizing.

ADDRESSING ECONOMIC VIOLENCE

• We need to give our children, regardless of their race or income, a fair shot at attending college. That’s why all public universities should be made tuition free. We should pay for that with a tax on Wall Street speculators.
• We must invest $5.5 billion to create 1 million jobs for disadvantaged young Americans who face high unemployment rates and job-training opportunities for hundreds of thousands of young adults. We should pay for that by ending the loophole allowing Wall Street hedge fund managers to pay a lower tax rate than nurses or truck drivers.
• We must increase the minimum wage to a livable wage of $15 an hour by 2020 —which will increase the wages of about half of African-Americans and nearly 60 percent of Latinos.
• We must invest $1 trillion to put 13 million Americans to work rebuilding our crumbling cities, roads, bridges, public transportation systems, airports, drinking water systems and other infrastructure needs. We should pay for that by closing offshore tax loopholes.
• We must pass federal legislation to ensure pay equity for women.
• We must prevent employers from discriminating against applicants based on criminal history by “banning the box.”
• We must promote policies to give the formerly incarcerated an opportunity for education, including expanding the Second Chance Pell Pilot Program and reentry programs.
• We need to ensure access to quality affordable childcare for working families, especially for parents who work non-traditional hours.
• We must fundamentally re-write our trade policies and rebuild factories that were closed as a result of bad trade deals.

But don't take me as saying the strategy won't work. I think it will. Unifying moderate left and right white people will create a strong majority and allow us to take seats in Congress in 2018. African Americans and Hispanic Americans will acquiesce, assuming a "Our Revolution" platform is adopted in 2020 or sooner because there is no place for them in the Republican Party. Again, this is status quo, maybe a small retreat from where we were under the Obama administration.

You seem to be confused. It's a coalition made up of progressives and any American voter who supports the progressive positions on the platform, things like universal healthcare and free college, raising the minimum wage, etc. As it turns out, as Sanders, among others, have shown, when you actually discuss the issues with voters in even deep red districts, many of them agree with the progressive position. I'm not concerned with how a voter identifies politically as long as they support the right position.

The policies and links you quote are all old. Some pages contain information that was current in 2012.

Sanders positions have remained consistent with everything I cited

 

[ttystikk]

“Do I think they can win without supporting single-payer? I’m skeptical. Among the people who consider themselves progressive, who vote in the primaries, there’s clearly movement toward Medicare for All.” -Bernie Sanders

He's pretty clear how he feels about it. He's been a vocal supporter of universal healthcare since the 90s at least

Bernie Sanders on Health Care

Does the same go for Tom Perez and the DNC, too, since they sponsored it?

"Bernie Sanders said Monday that the path to success for Democrats has to be through more than just identity politics, adding that it’s simply not enough for the party to base its appeals on diversity.

“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,”

He's right. Hillary Clinton lost campaigning almost exclusively on identity politics. What exactly do you disagree with his quote that it will take "more than just" identity politics for the Democratic party to win elections? The evidence is the outcome of the 216 election

"Clinton’s message was devoid of policy discussions in a way not seen in the previous four presidential contests."

2016 Election Study

Sanders' voting record and consistently high rating from the NAACP proves his strength on issues affecting minorities and women. He's not downplaying social justice issues, he's simply saying that while those issues are important, they are not enough to win national elections, as the 2016 general election proved. Any successful Democratic candidate has to address the economic issues facing the country, too. Economic racism affects millions of minorities, working towards fixing the wage and income disparity, increasing the minimum wage and enacting paid maternity/paternity leave benefit minorities the most while helping decrease poverty. Adopting a system of free college would help poor and minority communities, too, and people would have more opportunity to earn a better living

What policies does Sanders not support or oppose that would benefit minorities because it would "offend white voters pride"?



You seem to be confused. It's a coalition made up of progressives and any American voter who supports the progressive positions on the platform, things like universal healthcare and free college, raising the minimum wage, etc. As it turns out, as Sanders, among others, have shown, when you actually discuss the issues with voters in even deep red districts, many of them agree with the progressive position. I'm not concerned with how a voter identifies politically as long as they support the right position.

Sanders positions have remained consistent with everything I cited

Bernie Sanders has been consistent in these issues for the fucking half century I've been alive, fogsmog! WTF more could you possibly want?!

Mrs Clinton is a corporate shill! How is she in any way a better choice for anyone in this country save the already rich?!

Defend YOUR position, for a change.

 

[SneekyNinja]

Bernie Sanders has been consistent in these issues for the fucking half century I've been alive, fogsmog! WTF more could you possibly want?!

Mrs Clinton is a corporate shill! How is she in any way a better choice for anyone in this country save the already rich?!

Defend YOUR position, for a change.

^^ This is the "Bernie Sanders lost" wall.

What you need to do is get over it.

 

[ttystikk]

^^ This is the "Bernie Sanders lost" wall.

What you need to do is get over it.

Tell me all about how either the one you voted for or the one in office would be any better.

The missing link in your logic is the time you spend railing against the very candidate best suited to advancing your cause. You're worse than a right winger; you know better and STILL argue against your own best interest.

And you wonder why I call you stupid, Stinkydigit.

 

[Fogdog]

“Do I think they can win without supporting single-payer? I’m skeptical. Among the people who consider themselves progressive, who vote in the primaries, there’s clearly movement toward Medicare for All.” -Bernie Sanders

He's pretty clear how he feels about it. He's been a vocal supporter of universal healthcare since the 90s at least

Bernie Sanders on Health Care

Does the same go for Tom Perez and the DNC, too, since they sponsored it?

"Bernie Sanders said Monday that the path to success for Democrats has to be through more than just identity politics, adding that it’s simply not enough for the party to base its appeals on diversity.

“It’s not good enough for someone to say, ‘I’m a woman! Vote for me!’” No, that’s not good enough. What we need is a woman who has the guts to stand up to Wall Street, to the insurance companies, to the drug companies, to the fossil fuel industry,”

He's right. Hillary Clinton lost campaigning almost exclusively on identity politics. What exactly do you disagree with his quote that it will take "more than just" identity politics for the Democratic party to win elections? The evidence is the outcome of the 216 election

"Clinton’s message was devoid of policy discussions in a way not seen in the previous four presidential contests."

2016 Election Study

Sanders' voting record and consistently high rating from the NAACP proves his strength on issues affecting minorities and women. He's not downplaying social justice issues, he's simply saying that while those issues are important, they are not enough to win national elections, as the 2016 general election proved. Any successful Democratic candidate has to address the economic issues facing the country, too. Economic racism affects millions of minorities, working towards fixing the wage and income disparity, increasing the minimum wage and enacting paid maternity/paternity leave benefit minorities the most while helping decrease poverty. Adopting a system of free college would help poor and minority communities, too, and people would have more opportunity to earn a better living

What policies does Sanders not support or oppose that would benefit minorities because it would "offend white voters pride"?



You seem to be confused. It's a coalition made up of progressives and any American voter who supports the progressive positions on the platform, things like universal healthcare and free college, raising the minimum wage, etc. As it turns out, as Sanders, among others, have shown, when you actually discuss the issues with voters in even deep red districts, many of them agree with the progressive position. I'm not concerned with how a voter identifies politically as long as they support the right position.

Sanders positions have remained consistent with everything I cited

You aren't listening to what's happening right now.

He's courting the white middle moderates on both sides. All of that has been red lined. Not all will be tossed. White moderate conservative voters that join the "Our Revolution" reform.will decide which of those policies will be enacted. Bernie is courting their votes. He and you need them to wrest Congressional seats away from hard right wing radicals.

Your vision of social equality is pretty much in line with that anyway, so I' don't know why you are denying it.

Things will be better than what we have now. And white people will get a rest from racial issues. And the people that are already on board in the "Our Revolution" reform are pretty good. But forget what was said during 2016. The game has changed.

What happened to you is called sheep dogging.

 

[SneekyNinja]

Tell me all about how either the one you voted for or the one in office would be any better.

The missing link in your logic is the time you spend railing against the very candidate best suited to advancing your cause. You're worse than a right winger; you know better and STILL argue against your own best interest.

And you wonder why I call you stupid, Stinkydigit.

You just did the whole "Trump and Clinton are the same" trope again, come on, I already have that on my "Retarded shit Bernouts Say..." bingo card.

I'm way to left of you and it fucking Berns you up inside, doesn't it?

 

[Fogdog]

since I just pointed out the fact you aren't well read on two of those points in all likelihood you haven't read any of the third either.

any more stuff you haven't read that you wish to discuss?

I don't read fan fiction. I haven't read much of the Bible for the same reason.

Your faux right wing libertarian ideology relies completely upon unproven axioms. Mises even states without reservation that they eschew science and math.

So nice not to have to go to college and study hard for years and years. Just learn these unproven but "known to be true" principles and you can become an expert in 5 days.

 

[ttystikk]

You just did the whole "Trump and Clinton are the same" trope again, come on, I already have that on my "Retarded shit Bernouts Say..." bingo card.

I'm way to left of you and it fucking Berns you up inside, doesn't it?

You have no idea where you are.

I didn't equate the two, I said that Bernie would have been better than either of them. I notice you had to Strawman that because you knew you couldn't debate it fairly.

Dumber and dumber, Stinkydigit.

 

[Padawanbater2]

He's courting the white middle moderates on both sides.

How? What policies or positions is Sanders supporting that specifically targets "white middle moderates"?

Very simple question..

All of that has been red lined.

How has universal healthcare been "red lined" if it's on Sanders' platform (since the 90s) and he's planning on introducing a medicare for all bill in the Senate this session when he finalizes the details?

He made it clear that he's "skeptical" about the chances of any Democrat moving forward who does not support universal healthcare to win elections in the future. You're attempting to play both sides of this same issue. In the past, you criticized Sanders for being "too pure" for having a litmus test, now you're trying to make the claim that since he's abandoned that argument, the issue is "red lined". Sanders is in a position of Democratic party leadership, he's a bit more restricted on what he chooses to say in public. But he's assuredly still in favor of universal healthcare, to claim otherwise is ignorant

White moderate conservative voters that join the "Our Revolution" reform.will decide which of those policies will be enacted. Bernie is courting their votes. He and you need them to wrest Congressional seats away from hard right wing radicals.

What policies do you believe Sanders or Our Revolution supports that will court "white moderate conservative voters"?

Be specific

Things will be better than what we have now. And white people will get a rest from racial issues.

If Sanders platform/policies only help "white moderate conservative voters", and completely ignore minorities and women as you claim, why do you say you support him?


Can you address any of these points and respond rationally? Cite policies and sources. It's clear you're trying to frame Sanders and the policies he supports as somehow racist, despite all the contrary evidence that's already been provided, so you don't have to repeat that, but I would appreciate it if you could actually articulate why by responding to some of these arguments.

 

[ttystikk]

How? What policies or positions is Sanders supporting that specifically targets "white middle moderates"?

Very simple question..

How has universal healthcare been "red lined" if it's on Sanders' platform (since the 90s) and he's planning on introducing a medicare for all bill in the Senate this session when he finalizes the details?

He made it clear that he's "skeptical" about the chances of any Democrat moving forward who does not support universal healthcare to win elections in the future. You're attempting to play both sides of this same issue. In the past, you criticized Sanders for being "too pure" for having a litmus test, now you're trying to make the claim that since he's abandoned that argument, the issue is "red lined". Sanders is in a position of Democratic party leadership, he's a bit more restricted on what he chooses to say in public. But he's assuredly still in favor of universal healthcare, to claim otherwise is ignorant

What policies do you believe Sanders or Our Revolution supports that will court "white moderate conservative voters"?

Be specific

If Sanders platform/policies only help "white moderate conservative voters", and completely ignore minorities and women as you claim, why do you say you support him?


Can you address any of these points and respond rationally? Cite policies and sources. It's clear you're trying to frame Sanders and the policies he supports as somehow racist, despite all the contrary evidence that's already been provided, so you don't have to repeat that, but I would appreciate it if you could actually articulate why by responding to some of these arguments.

He won't respond. He's wrong and he knows it, so he is stuck on repeat, hoping that alone will win the argument.

Fogsmog is beginning to sound as stupid as Stinkydigit. Their positions don't line up with their actions and their blame game is the same lame.

Worse than right wingnuts; gotta trash the very one that best represents their interests, then wonder why they keep getting screwed.

But remember! It's always someone else's fault! We just have to find them first!

LMAO

 

[Fogdog]

How? What policies or positions is Sanders supporting that specifically targets "white middle moderates"?

Very simple question..

How has universal healthcare been "red lined" if it's on Sanders' platform (since the 90s) and he's planning on introducing a medicare for all bill in the Senate this session when he finalizes the details?

He made it clear that he's "skeptical" about the chances of any Democrat moving forward who does not support universal healthcare to win elections in the future. You're attempting to play both sides of this same issue. In the past, you criticized Sanders for being "too pure" for having a litmus test, now you're trying to make the claim that since he's abandoned that argument, the issue is "red lined". Sanders is in a position of Democratic party leadership, he's a bit more restricted on what he chooses to say in public. But he's assuredly still in favor of universal healthcare, to claim otherwise is ignorant

What policies do you believe Sanders or Our Revolution supports that will court "white moderate conservative voters"?

Be specific

If Sanders platform/policies only help "white moderate conservative voters", and completely ignore minorities and women as you claim, why do you say you support him?


Can you address any of these points and respond rationally? Cite policies and sources. It's clear you're trying to frame Sanders and the policies he supports as somehow racist, despite all the contrary evidence that's already been provided, so you don't have to repeat that, but I would appreciate it if you could actually articulate why by responding to some of these arguments.

I've already said what I meant. Posted back up articles that are current from December on to show what Bernie is now saying.

I was specific enough for you to understand. You just don't like my answer.

Bernie is going to finish his draft bill for Universal Healthcare. Bernie isn't hard line about people supporting it. It's all there in black and white. When I read the quotation from the Washington Post interview that was published on August 9 of this year, I see him accepting that this issue won't get passed very soon. It's you who is hard line and obnoxious about denying reality that the US is more conservative than you'd like. Single Payer Healthcare is not a hard line issue for the "Our Revolution" reformers.

Sanders told The Post that healthcare, and support for a single-payer system, is just one issue for voters to consider.
“Is this a litmus test? No, you have to look at where candidates are on many issues,” Sanders said.

“But you’re seeing more and more movement toward ‘Medicare for All.’ When the people are saying we need healthcare for everyone, as more and more Americans come on board, it will become politically possible.”

I think the only issue that is clearly a litmus test for the "Our Revolution" reformers is support for reforming campaign finance. Also, the people who have signed on already are pretty good in terms of liberal values. Bernie is giving room in his movement for moderate conservatives who either represent or want to represent districts that would reject single payer healthcare when the cost is calculated. Also other conservative hot button issues like abortion.

 

[twostrokenut]

I don't read fan fiction. I haven't read much of the Bible for the same reason.

Your faux right wing libertarian ideology relies completely upon unproven axioms. Mises even states without reservation that they eschew science and math.

So nice not to have to go to college and study hard for years and years. Just learn these unproven but "known to be true" principles and you can become an expert in 5 days.

the old testament is worth a read just for the tetragrammaton.

where would even you be without Menger and marginslism? opportunity costs, Buisness cycle?

Will you deny then that Hayek was about the only one to predict the crash of 1929 based on monetary expansion? "unproven axiom" indeed.

it's the same old struggle....economics as the science of individual choice vs economics as accumulation of data serving the state.

it's clear which side youre on as you are a proponent of using the state to implement your version of good through a blend of politics as economics, rather than leaving politics out of economics as the Austrians do.