Ending the Ronald Reagan Lie

[Fogdog]

There was an actual policy in place to throw people out for (trumped up) disciplinary reasons and then use that as an excuse to bar then from VA access and benefits.

Despicable.

It doesn't sound like VA has changed policy.

Congress passed the law to allow benefits and the VA through it's own policies excludes about 6x more than the law would have it:

In a report dated March 2016,

Only 1% of service members discharged in 2011 are barred from VA services due to Congress’ criteria. VA regulations cause the exclusion of an additional 5.5% of all service members.

https://www.swords-to-plowshares.org/2016/03/30/Underserved

• Marines are nearly ten times more likely to be excluded from VA services than their counterparts in the Air Force
• Current era service members are excluded at higher rates than other eras-- more than twice the rate for Vietnam Era veterans and nearly four times the rate for World War II Era veterans
• Mental health and combat have little effect on eligibility
• 3 out of 4 veterans with bad-paper discharges who served in combat and who have Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder are denied eligibility by the Board of Veterans’ Appeals

I hold a general rule of thumb that data collected by government always show the rosiest picture. And so, if 6.5% are denied benefits mostly unfairly then the actual number could be much higher. I apply a factor of 2x when I don't have anything else to go on. So 10% to 15% wouldn't surprise me. Do any of you guys (tty, AC, ODG) have a read on how many are unfairly excluded?

My congressional reps will be getting yet another phone call from me. They say it helps. If feels like pissing into the wind -- a relief to finally do something but wondering why I did it afterward. But this is the least I can do. Not being ex-military, I have no idea what's going on regarding this but I should. Time to do more reading.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

It was a hard deployment. 4 of the 9 guys in my squad from that deployment are alive, 3 suicides.

Yes! Afghanistan is majestically beautiful. We used to fly map-of-the-earth getting moved around the entire area by 160th SOAR. I wasn't SF but my company was attached to a team to guard their positions and be ready to back them up. We got to see Afghanistan in a way most people will never know. It is such a beautiful place.

We were in the Tangi in Southern Wardak in '09. We couldn't get any convoys for supplies in or out without someone being blown to shit. We always thought we were safe, flying in and out on missions. Like, on my way out, I personally thought "Watch, we're going to get up in the air, and they're going to blow us out of the sky. God's waiting to fuck with us." Then, in 2011, that actually happened to a Chinook full of 15-20 SEALs, 5 Rangers, 2 PJs, 1 CC, and a bunch of Afghan commandos. Worst loss of casualties in the entire war. It's now a no-go zone for all coalition forces. It's too hot of an AO, and there's only one road through the entire valley. You know how that shit goes

 

[Olive Drab Green]

So 10% to 15% wouldn't surprise me. Do any of you guys (tty, AC, ODG) have a read on how many are unfairly excluded?

I couldn't tell you, but I suspect it's more common than reported.

 

[Fogdog]

I couldn't tell you, but I suspect it's more common than reported.

I nominate this post for understatement of the year award

 

[st0wandgrow]

Absolutely disgusting. I actually was really paranoid they were going to try to fuck me when they first told me they wanted to med board me. People were coming back from multiple deployments and being chaptered out for adjustment disorder or some ailment existing prior to service (EPTS) they decided to make up. It's fucking horrible.

Unreal. Not much else makes my blood boil more than the way I see vets being treated. We can piss away trillions on pointless wars, but can't be bothered to take care of the people fighting those wars.

Thank you for your service olive

 

[abandonconflict]

We were in the Tangi in Southern Wardak in '09. We couldn't get any convoys for supplies in or out without someone being blown to shit. We always thought we were safe, flying in and out on missions. Like, on my way out, I personally thought "Watch, we're going to get up in the air, and they're going to blow us out of the sky. God's waiting to fuck with us." Then, in 2011, that actually happened to a Chinook full of 15-20 SEALs, 5 Rangers, 2 PJs, 1 CC, and a bunch of Afghan commandos. Worst loss of casualties in the entire war. It's now a no-go zone for all coalition forces. It's too hot of an AO, and there's only one road through the entire valley. You know how that shit goes

Yeah 2002 was a good time to have the best pilots in the world, 160th was our lifeline. I swear if anyone looked at one of those guys sideways I'd have gutted them. They did everything for us, brought our food, our mail, got us in and out safely, brought us water and ammo and supported us while we fought. They have the same maladies as us readjusting too. The Nightstalkers deserve so much credit, I could never do it justice.

 

[ttystikk]

Unreal. Not much else makes my blood boil more than the way I see vets being treated. We can piss away trillions on pointless wars, but can't be bothered to take care of the people fighting those wars.

Thank you for your service olive

Yep.

If this doesn't underscore the contempt for the average citizen shown by the elite of our country, I don't know what does.

Maybe they don't deserve to be allowed to keep their money if this is how they use it.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Yeah 2002 was a good time to have the best pilots in the world, 160th was our lifeline. I swear if anyone looked at one of those guys sideways I'd have gutted them. They did everything for us, brought our food, our mail, got us in and out safely, brought us water and ammo and supported us while we fought. They have the same maladies as us readjusting too.

I wanted to try out for them before I got med boarded. Division has its own CAB these days. 10th CAB.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Yep.

If this doesn't underscore the contempt for the average citizen shown by the elite of our country, I don't know what does.

Maybe they don't deserve to be allowed to keep their money if this is how they use it.

I don't mean to incite violence against a government entity, but I just want to point out, when we had tyrants imposing their will and oppressing us while taxing the life out of us over 200 years ago, we fucking shot them. So honestly, as it's essentially the foundation of our country's history to topple tyranny with violence, I don't look ill upon anyone who crosses that line. We've nearly exhausted all peaceful measures and approaches. Something's gotta give. These pricks need to be reminded that they are our servants, not our masters.

 

[abandonconflict]

It doesn't sound like VA has changed policy.

Congress passed the law to allow benefits and the VA through it's own policies excludes about 6x more than the law would have it:

In a report dated March 2016,

Only 1% of service members discharged in 2011 are barred from VA services due to Congress’ criteria. VA regulations cause the exclusion of an additional 5.5% of all service members.

https://www.swords-to-plowshares.org/2016/03/30/Underserved

• Marines are nearly ten times more likely to be excluded from VA services than their counterparts in the Air Force
• Current era service members are excluded at higher rates than other eras-- more than twice the rate for Vietnam Era veterans and nearly four times the rate for World War II Era veterans
• Mental health and combat have little effect on eligibility
• 3 out of 4 veterans with bad-paper discharges who served in combat and who have Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder are denied eligibility by the Board of Veterans’ Appeals

I hold a general rule of thumb that data collected by government always show the rosiest picture. And so, if 6.5% are denied benefits mostly unfairly then the actual number could be much higher. I apply a factor of 2x when I don't have anything else to go on. So 10% to 15% wouldn't surprise me. Do any of you guys (tty, AC, ODG) have a read on how many are unfairly excluded?

My congressional reps will be getting yet another phone call from me. They say it helps. If feels like pissing into the wind -- a relief to finally do something but wondering why I did it afterward. But this is the least I can do. Not being ex-military, I have no idea what's going on regarding this but I should. Time to do more reading.

Most people have no idea. Sometimes a unit comes home from a deployment and gets a new commander who is green and has orders to get the unit ready for its next deployment. Often such a CO inherits these troopers and doesn't know how to deal with them and doesn't realize it is connected, takes the most expedient route to readiness.

 

[abandonconflict]

I don't mean to incite violence against a government entity, but I just want to point out, when we had tyrants imposing their will and oppressing us while taxing the life out of us over 200 years ago, we fucking shot them. So honestly, as it's essentially the foundation of our country's history to topple tyranny with violence, I don't look ill upon anyone who crosses that line. We've nearly exhausted all peaceful measures and approaches. Something's gotta give. These pricks need to be reminded that they are our servants, not our masters.

He is opposed to revolution.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

He is opposed to revolution.

I don't want it either. Violence got me where I was, and I definitely don't want to go back there again. I'm just saying, I foresee it as inevitable. And I won't be the first to raise a muzzle, but when they come to get us, I'll be there to do what I can for the People.

 

[Fogdog]

Most people have no idea. Sometimes a unit comes home from a deployment and gets a new commander who is green and has orders to get the unit ready for its next deployment. Often such a CO inherits these troopers and doesn't know how to deal with them and doesn't realize it is connected, takes the most expedient route to readiness.

And when the vet is released with less than general discharge, they are automatically no longer eligible for VA. Appeals are rejected 3 out of four times. The vets who don't appeal aren't even counted in the report I posted. There would be no way to track how many are unfairly denied the benefit due them. Just, a whopping large number

Yeesh, that's fucked up

I nominate myself for most clueless of the year award.

 

[abandonconflict]

I don't want it either. Violence got me where I was, and I definitely don't want to go back there again. I'm just saying, I foresee it as inevitable. And I won't be the first to raise a muzzle, but when they come to get us, I'll be there to do what I can for the People.

Well said, I would never oppose and I think that no sane person would say that they are glad that it has become inevitable.

 

[abandonconflict]

And when the vet is released with less than general discharge, they are automatically no longer eligible for VA. Appeals are rejected 3 out of four times. The vets who don't appeal aren't even counted in the report I posted. There would be no way to track how many are unfairly denied the benefit due them. Just, a whopping large number

Yeesh, that's fucked up

I nominate this post most for clueless of the year award.

At least we look out for each other.

 

[ttystikk]

I don't mean to incite violence against a government entity, but I just want to point out, when we had tyrants imposing their will and oppressing us while taxing the life out of us over 200 years ago, we fucking shot them. So honestly, as it's essentially the foundation of our country's history to topple tyranny with violence, I don't look ill upon anyone who crosses that line. We've nearly exhausted all peaceful measures and approaches. Something's gotta give. These pricks need to be reminded that they are our servants, not our masters.

Our government has been co-opted by the ultra rich;

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-bezos-richest-person/?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email

THESE people have become the greatest enemies of the American People.

Under no circumstances should individuals have this much power with as few checks on it.

 

[abandonconflict]

Welp, there goes the berner segue from a good dialogue that was touching on society's issues and widely held misconceptions to some bs we've heard a million times about this or that evil political donor...

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Our government has been co-opted by the ultra rich;

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-bezos-richest-person/?utm_source=nextdraft&utm_medium=email

THESE people have become the greatest enemies of the American People.

Under no circumstances should individuals have this much power with as few checks on it.

I completely agree. Maybe two things I can think of right now would be crucial in setting shit straight:

1. Term limits on Congress. I should not be remembering Newt Gingrich in Congress in the 1990s and still seeing him in a government position or participating in politics nearly 30 years later. Him especially, but others, too. You should not be allowed to make a retirement plan out of Congress, especially when you are doing the opposite of enforcing the will of the People.

2. Imposing heavy restrictions or completely eliminating the practice of corporate lobbying and contributions. It is incomprehensible that a corporate entity should be able to pay politicians to ignore the will of the People so that business can make more money and further increase the population living below the poverty line. The medical field should not be able to lobby for laws that bring them wealth at the expense of the freedom of the citizens of this country. People are going to jail or dying, not for a common good, but for the interests of business, and it's fucking disgusting.

 

[ttystikk]

I completely agree. Maybe two things I can think of right now would be crucial in setting shit straight:

1. Term limits on Congress. I should not be remembering Newt Gingrich in Congress in the 1990s and still seeing him in a government position or participating in politics nearly 30 years later. Him especially, but others, too. You should not be allowed to make a retirement plan out of Congress, especially when you are doing the opposite of enforcing the will of the People.

2. Imposing heavy restrictions or completely eliminating the practice of corporate lobbying and contributions. It is incomprehensible that a corporate entity should be able to pay politicians to ignore the will of the People so that business can make more money and further increase the population living below the poverty line. The medical field should not be able to lobby for laws that bring them wealth at the expense of the freedom of the citizens of this country. People are going to jail or dying, not for a common good, but for the interests of business, and it's fucking disgusting.

And don't forget; every fucking dime of those billions in campaign contributions is TAX DEDUCTIBLE, so effectively the American taxpayer is paying for our own subjugation!

 

[Olive Drab Green]

And don't forget; every fucking dime of those billions in campaign contributions is TAX DEDUCTIBLE, so effectively the American taxpayer is paying for our own subjugation!

Oh, man. Don't tell me that. I'm going to end up punching th next Trump supporter I see in the fucking throat.