Mark Blyth, the economist who's making sense

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ttystikk

ttystikk

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Fogdog said:
You bring your perspective into the correctness of choosing Trump. Of course from your perspective, you are right. From Pie's perspective did she cast the wrong vote? From her perspective, I'm sure if you asked, she would say she did.

I don't know why I keep falling into the trap of defending Clinton. I'd rather change the dialogue to what's next.
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I already have and I think what's next is the rise of the Progressive Movement. Of course it will be resisted by the establishment on both sides of the aisle, we've already been seeing that.

I'm not saying voting for Trump was the right move but lots of conservatives and Republicans thought he was a better choice than Jeb, Cruz or any of the rest of them.

If Democrats were smart, they'd embrace this movement with open arms. I think they're not as smart as they are greedy/desperate for donor cash.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am. Time will tell.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

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ttystikk said:
I don't say it, the polls do; people who want better opportunities, more prosperity and less wealth inequality voted for Trump or Sanders.

The Clinton campaign failed to sell them on her strategy to bring these things to them, so she lost.

I think you'll agree that Clinton would have done a better job on those issues than Trump, but Clinton lost anyway.

You draw your own conclusions, I've drawn mine.
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opinion polls, right?

The only poll that matters is the election poll and who people choose to represent them.

I simply say that the same people who say they want better opportunities, more prosperity and less wealth inequality voted in their own best interest. And maybe the sum of the whole that makes up "best interest" didn't include the values you listed, or maybe some ranked those values lower than others, or maybe some were convinced their candidate would deliver on those valued better than the other.

In the only poll that mattered, people who supported Sanders were outnumbered by a lot. Slice and dice how you like. That's the fact. I've said before you are not using facts to draw some of your conclusions.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
opinion polls, right?

The only poll that matters is the election poll and who people choose to represent them.

I simply say that the same people who say they want better opportunities, more prosperity and less wealth inequality voted in their own best interest. And maybe the sum of the whole that makes up "best interest" didn't include the values you listed, or maybe some ranked those values lower than others, or maybe some were convinced their candidate would deliver on those valued better than the other.

In the only poll that mattered, people who supported Sanders were outnumbered by a lot. Slice and dice how you like. That's the fact. I've said before you are not using facts to draw some of your conclusions.
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And your analysis is sloppy and will remain inaccurate until you understand and accept that who people think is the candidate with their best interest in mind isn't necessarily what they get.

Perception and reality are two different things or magicians, salesmen, populists and demagogues would be out of a job.

Just because the progressives didn't win the first time out doesn't mean they aren't a coming trend. Time will tell.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I already have and I think what's next is the rise of the Progressive Movement. Of course it will be resisted by the establishment on both sides of the aisle, we've already been seeing that.

I'm not saying voting for Trump was the right move but lots of conservatives and Republicans thought he was a better choice than Jeb, Cruz or any of the rest of them.

If Democrats were smart, they'd embrace this movement with open arms. I think they're not as smart as they are greedy/desperate for donor cash.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am. Time will tell.
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Who is the establishment again? 65% of the party? Is that the establishment? I'd call that a large majority.

If Democrats were smart....if those tens of millions were smart like tty. Oh yeah, grandiosity here. I'll think you are smart when you start listening to people who disagree an try to find common ground. Not give up your fight, just listen and incorporate the good that you hear. I posted an excerpt and a link to an article that explains very well what could have done better by the Sanders campaign. Near as I can tell, you dismissed it.

Is it really "my way or the highway", tty? Are you so convinced of the rightness of your cause that everybody must hew to your cause without adding theirs to it?
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
And your analysis is sloppy and will remain inaccurate until you understand and accept that who people think is the candidate with their best interest in mind isn't necessarily what they get.

Perception and reality are two different things or magicians, salesmen, populists and demagogues would be out of a job.

Just because the progressives didn't win the first time our doesn't mean they aren't a coming trend. Time will tell.
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The only poll that matters is the one where you claim people didn't vote in their own self interest.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Who is the establishment again? 65% of the party? Is that the establishment? I'd call that a large majority.

If Democrats were smart....if those tens of millions were smart like tty. Oh yeah, grandiosity here. I'll think you are smart when you start listening to people who disagree an try to find common ground. Not give up your fight, just listen and incorporate the good that you hear. I posted an excerpt and a link to an article that explains very well what could have done better by the Sanders campaign. Near as I can tell, you dismissed it.

Is it really "my way or the highway", tty? Are you so convinced of the rightness of your cause that everybody must hew to your cause without adding theirs to it?
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Grandiosity is acting like the larger fraction of a badly out of power party means anything.

Yes there was a civil war inside the Democratic Party. Until it's resolved they aren't getting back in power. That's how the system works, for better or worse.

I'm through voting for people who don't represent me. That isn't grandiose, that's just taking a stand.

Other people can vote how they like. How is that a grandiose attitude?
 
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