Oxygen generator vs air stone? Concepts and DIY approaches.

[WeedFreak78]

I’ll bite! Interesting thread…

Why do you really think you need more DO, do you know your DO is too low or just want more DO because more DO sounds good? There is probably no more than 1 out of 1,000 growers that ever have root rot and fungal infestations caused by low DO’s. At least that theme seems to be quiet consistent on forums, no fungi problems, never in 20 years of DWC pot grows.

If the cost is too high for you up front, this supplemental oxygenating device will never be a viable option for you regardless of any reason you want it. No disrespect intended. Like having a knock-out looking woman for a wife, you lover her, but you cannot afford her ways and the relationship is doomed to failure, but the Judge says you will pay child support and alimony at the end of the road at the Court House. That’s another one of life’s torturous adventures that cost too much, was not affordable and we bought it anyway.

But first, why do you think you need supplemental oxygen, have you ever tested, measured your DO to determine if you DO is low, unsafe to root balls and Bennies? 2nd if you have actually tested your DO and found that it is low and unsafe and you need a higher DO that is within the “safe range, well you may need supplemental oxygen? 3rd, just how much money are you prepared to pay/invest in supplemental oxygen equipment that insures a continuous supply of O2 24/7 for months during the grow season that will insure a continuous “safe DO range?” Just wondering why, that’s all.

Electrolysis of water (O2Grow) does produce pure 100% O2, but the hidden, never spoken issue is… just how much 100% O2 gas does the O2Grow electrolysis oxygenator really produce when the electrolysis generator is in the “on cycle.” It produces no O2 in the “off cycle.” Is the cost and H2 explosion hazard worth the benefit you hope for?

Actually there are far better supplemental oxygen technologies available than electrolysis of water if you’re interested in or need to increase your Dissolved Oxygen saturation greater than the limitations and restrictions of ambient air and or O2Grow technology limitations. O2 Grow does have some serious limitations other than producing 2 X as much Hydrogen gas, an explosive gas.

Oxygen (elemental O2 gas) is not ambient air and unlike air, O2 gas is not free. Supplemental O2 gas technology will cost you a few bucks.

It's about time you realized that product was dangerous.

OP, what ya doing about the H byproduct? This thread is kinda old and haven't heard from the OP since Dec. You didn't blow yourself up did you?

 

[GanjaFarmerUK]

This was my initial worry when talking to the guys at O2 grow..
Here is the exact email that I received from one of their reps..

''For some reason people think we have generated some excess hydrogen that could be explosive or harmful. The fact of the matter is most of the separated hydrogen is also re-absorbed back into the water because the molecule formulation doesn't change, ( H20 ) however the DO level increases because we convereted it to a soluble gas. Yes some hydrogen will escape, but technically not anymore than if it was evaporating like your environment does now with evaporation. You have lots of evaporation going on in those rooms. Plus you may be adding Co2. So with that said, hopefully your concerns have been addressed. Even though we are using an electrolysis concept / science, no one has done what we are doing in horticulture. Mainly because we have patents on how we use eletrolisis and our designs doing so.

There are a lot of thing you can do with electrolysis. One is swimming pool chlorinators. But in that case the Anode / Cathodes are further apart. our patents are 25 to 60 thousands of an inch. Further will make chlorine if you add a lot of sodium chloride to the water (salt ). There are also ways to capture hydrogen in a more complicated design concept and thats what a lot of people find on the internet. Unfortunately no one has ever established a good method or product to do that effectively.

There’s even bloggers ( The University of Goggle ) who tell people that you can make our technology for $10. Good luck with that. The iridium that coats our Anode / Cathodes cost $900 an oz. Thats is a precious metal used for conductivity in your cell phone , laptops and now Led’s are starting to use that material and that has up the price. It used to be dubbed 9 the cheap gold ) It’s now just under the price of gold. 20 years ago many tower computers used gold in their circuitry. There were companies formed that reclaimed that gold.

Hoped this helped''

My main issue was I run a closed loop RDWC system and was seriously worried about the H2 gas build up but was assured that it was negligible and would just be absorbed back in to the environment..
The reason that I decided to make my own was not a financial issue, it was purely that the rep prevoked me saying it wasn't possible to do what they have done for cheap! I accepted his challenge..

 

[GanjaFarmerUK]

Also, if there is no supplimentry oxygen then in a DWC setup the plants will drown.. Not only does this type of tech double the amount of DO in the solution compared to air stones (making the nutrients more readily available to the root system) but also helps to fight against diseases..

Here is a pic of how much DO is made in less than 45 seconds with my simple diy..

 

[Atomizer]

Hope you didnt use stainless steel instead of platinum or iridium coated titanium.

 

[Jimdamick]

All I know that with my RDWC system (modified waterfarm) I grow huge plants with zero root problems. Simple air, (oxygen) provided to the root system is all that the plant needs, this isn't rocket science to grow a healthy plant.

 

[GanjaFarmerUK]

Hope you didnt use stainless steel instead of platinum or iridium coated titanium.

Yeah, just for the proof of concept design..
Waiting for my IR coated expanded plates to arrive from China. .

 

[GanjaFarmerUK]

All I know that with my RDWC system (modified waterfarm) I grow huge plants with zero root problems. Simple air provided to the root system is all that the plant needs, this isn't rocket science to grow a healthy plant.

Yes. I have grown many successfully with the use of air stones.. Problem is with using air pumps on a closed loop system is that you need to get the air for the pumps from an outside source so with my X4 100LPM air pumps located outside my room I'm adding 400LPM into a sealed room!

 

[Atomizer]

Yeah, just for the proof of concept design..
Waiting for my IR coated expanded plates to arrive from China. .

The test water is classified as hazardous waste so dont get it on your skin, dump it down the drain or consume anything that was grown in it

 

[GanjaFarmerUK]

The test water is classified as hazardous waste so dont get it on your skin, dump it down the drain or consume anything that was grown in it

I'll bare that in mind... I'm sure that the only issue is the breakdown of the anode though that makes it even slightly hazardous.. Hence the need for IR coated titanium anodes.. The only other thing that it creates is chlorine if the anode and cathode are incorrectly spaced.. They use the same tech in water treatment plants.. I may be wrong on all fronts here but that is what I have read!

 

[Atomizer]

Your test water will contain chromate from the stainless You wont have that issue with the IR coated ones but you may need to supply Cu via foliar feeding.

 

[WeedFreak78]

This was my initial worry when talking to the guys at O2 grow..
Here is the exact email that I received from one of their reps..

''For some reason people think we have generated some excess hydrogen that could be explosive or harmful. The fact of the matter is most of the separated hydrogen is also re-absorbed back into the water because the molecule formulation doesn't change, ( H20 ) however the DO level increases because we convereted it to a soluble gas. Yes some hydrogen will escape, but technically not anymore than if it was evaporating like your environment does now with evaporation. You have lots of evaporation going on in those rooms. Plus you may be adding Co2. So with that said, hopefully your concerns have been addressed. Even though we are using an electrolysis concept / science, no one has done what we are doing in horticulture. Mainly because we have patents on how we use eletrolisis and our designs doing so.

There are a lot of thing you can do with electrolysis. One is swimming pool chlorinators. But in that case the Anode / Cathodes are further apart. our patents are 25 to 60 thousands of an inch. Further will make chlorine if you add a lot of sodium chloride to the water (salt ). There are also ways to capture hydrogen in a more complicated design concept and thats what a lot of people find on the internet. Unfortunately no one has ever established a good method or product to do that effectively.

There’s even bloggers ( The University of Goggle ) who tell people that you can make our technology for $10. Good luck with that. The iridium that coats our Anode / Cathodes cost $900 an oz. Thats is a precious metal used for conductivity in your cell phone , laptops and now Led’s are starting to use that material and that has up the price. It used to be dubbed 9 the cheap gold ) It’s now just under the price of gold. 20 years ago many tower computers used gold in their circuitry. There were companies formed that reclaimed that gold.

Hoped this helped''

My main issue was I run a closed loop RDWC system and was seriously worried about the H2 gas build up but was assured that it was negligible and would just be absorbed back in to the environment..
The reason that I decided to make my own was not a financial issue, it was purely that the rep prevoked me saying it wasn't possible to do what they have done for cheap! I accepted his challenge..

I'm a little fuzzy on the science here. Are they saying the majority of split O2 and H molecules will reattach back to H20, so there's very little actual just O2 and H molecules left? Light a match over that experiment you did and see if it flares up.
I've said it before, I've worked with supplemental hydrogen generators that were pretty much this same setup, as far as I can see, but the gases were collected and directed into an engine. I had to fix a collector vessel that blew up due to a small leak and bad wiring. The vessel was maybe 1L capacity and the owner said it rocked the vehicle when it went off. Personally, I wouldn't take the chance when air pumps work fine 99.9% of the time.

 

[PetFlora]

Why not do a simple floom/venturi set up?

This is 3 gallons off a 260 low pressure pump with a simple DIY venturi

 

[GanjaFarmerUK]

I'm a little fuzzy on the science here. Are they saying the majority of split O2 and H molecules will reattach back to H20, so there's very little actual just O2 and H molecules left? Light a match over that experiment you did and see if it flares up.
I've said it before, I've worked with supplemental hydrogen generators that were pretty much this same setup, as far as I can see, but the gases were collected and directed into an engine. I had to fix a collector vessel that blew up due to a small leak and bad wiring. The vessel was maybe 1L capacity and the owner said it rocked the vehicle when it went off. Personally, I wouldn't take the chance when air pumps work fine 99.9% of the time.

There's no doubt that stored hydrogen is extremely explosive, but I've decided to put my O2 generator in my control bucket which is located in a separate room that is vented, so I very much doubt there will be a buildup of H2 gas.
It does crack quite a bit with a flame to the top of the water though!

 

[GanjaFarmerUK]

Why not do a simple floom/venturi set up?

This is 3 gallons off a 260 low pressure pump with a simple DIY venturi

View attachment 3971541

My system is 40X40L buckets with a rough total of 1800L! (Near 500 gallons!)
I already have a venturi setup on my 32mm return pipe that injects a hell of a lot of O2 into the water but it's not on the nano scale and just comes back to the surface rather than fully hanging in the liquid.. Nano bubble generators are far too loud, so this is the only alternative I think?! (Please feel free to kick in if you know anything I don't!)

 

[GanjaFarmerUK]

Would love to know where the OP ''ganjineer'' got with his experiments.. He hasn't kicked in on this thread since December last year! Did you kill your plants or blow yourself up mate?? Please advise!

 

[GreenLifeOmaha]

I recently added a power head with an air pump. I may have to bite the bullet and spend the $250 if this shows a significant improvement over the power head venturi setup i have now.

 

[J Henry]

I recently added a power head with an air pump. I may have to bite the bullet and spend the $250 if this shows a significant improvement over the power head venturi setup i have now.

And how are you going to actually know if your $250 investment is any more effective than a power head venture rig. How will you test that dude?

 

[GreenLifeOmaha]

I figured i might grab it after my next harvest. Not sure whats better or even how to test now that i think of it. Chances are i will just stick to my current setup.

 

[GreenLifeOmaha]

Im surprised more ppl or pros aren't testing it.

 

[Heisengrow]

Yes. I have grown many successfully with the use of air stones.. Problem is with using air pumps on a closed loop system is that you need to get the air for the pumps from an outside source so with my X4 100LPM air pumps located outside my room I'm adding 400LPM into a sealed room!

Thats a myth,even running CO2 the air is still 20 percent oxygen compared to 0.04 percent co2.Oxygen is created when the air is dissolved on the surface.I run co2 and air stones in a sealed room and never have root issues.