Oxygen generator vs air stone? Concepts and DIY approaches.

J

J Henry

Active Member
1 PPM is a very difficult concept for most dudes to grasp because dudes can't see it and can't take a picture of it and show other dudes on the internet. 2-7 PPM is a little more concentrated, but you can't see that either. To determine PPM you got to scientifically test it with a meter or something that measures PPMs. Without a test meter or chemical test it's no more another simple guess... you know what I mean? But, without a testing device guessing is always FREE and meaningless.

If you have sensitive taste buds, you can taste the difference in fresh water between 0.0 PPT (parts per thousand) NaCl and 3.1 PPT NaCl.

In your opinion, what do you believe affects dissolved oxygen in water most, water temperature, air temperature or the partial pressure of O2 gas?

*** How would you test the DO in water to determine the DO concentration and the DO Saturation or would you simply hope and guess like the average dude?
 
Heisengrow

Heisengrow

Well-Known Member
J Henry said:
1 PPM is a very difficult concept for most dudes to grasp because dudes can't see it and can't take a picture of it and show other dudes on the internet. 2-7 PPM is a little more concentrated, but you can't see that either. To determine PPM you got to scientifically test it with a meter or something that measures PPMs. Without a test meter or chemical test it's no more another simple guess... you know what I mean? But, without a testing device guessing is always FREE and meaningless.

If you have sensitive taste buds, you can taste the difference in fresh water between 0.0 PPT (parts per thousand) NaCl and 3.1 PPT NaCl.

In your opinion, what do you believe affects dissolved oxygen in water most, water temperature, air temperature or the partial pressure of O2 gas?

*** How would you test the DO in water to determine the DO concentration and the DO Saturation or would you simply hope and guess like the average dude?
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Sealed room 1050 ppm of co2 and air stones.heres my test results.the end.

downloadfile-1.jpg
 
Lyndon Smith

Lyndon Smith

New Member
J Henry said:
I’ll bite! Interesting thread…

Why do you really think you need more DO, do you know your DO is too low or just want more DO because more DO sounds good? There is probably no more than 1 out of 1,000 growers that ever have root rot and fungal infestations caused by low DO’s. At least that theme seems to be quiet consistent on forums, no fungi problems, never in 20 years of DWC pot grows.

If the cost is too high for you up front, this supplemental oxygenating device will never be a viable option for you regardless of any reason you want it. No disrespect intended. Like having a knock-out looking woman for a wife, you lover her, but you cannot afford her ways and the relationship is doomed to failure, but the Judge says you will pay child support and alimony at the end of the road at the Court House. That’s another one of life’s torturous adventures that cost too much, was not affordable and we bought it anyway.

But first, why do you think you need supplemental oxygen, have you ever tested, measured your DO to determine if you DO is low, unsafe to root balls and Bennies? 2nd if you have actually tested your DO and found that it is low and unsafe and you need a higher DO that is within the “safe range, well you may need supplemental oxygen? 3rd, just how much money are you prepared to pay/invest in supplemental oxygen equipment that insures a continuous supply of O2 24/7 for months during the grow season that will insure a continuous “safe DO range?” Just wondering why, that’s all.

Electrolysis of water (O2Grow) does produce pure 100% O2, but the hidden, never spoken issue is… just how much 100% O2 gas does the O2Grow electrolysis oxygenator really produce when the electrolysis generator is in the “on cycle.” It produces no O2 in the “off cycle.” Is the cost and H2 explosion hazard worth the benefit you hope for?

Actually there are far better supplemental oxygen technologies available than electrolysis of water if you’re interested in or need to increase your Dissolved Oxygen saturation greater than the limitations and restrictions of ambient air and or O2Grow technology limitations. O2 Grow does have some serious limitations other than producing 2 X as much Hydrogen gas, an explosive gas.

Oxygen (elemental O2 gas) is not ambient air and unlike air, O2 gas is not free. Supplemental O2 gas technology will cost you a few bucks.
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Yes you state a valid point but truth being the hydrogen build up is not high and dissipates in the water most of the gas doesn’t even leave the water and with the hydrogen on the surface that does will return when the emitter is off thus turning itself back into water it is just a fluctuation of gases is all
 
S

soultouch

Member
It is likely thatone could supersaturate the water with DO. Is that a bad thing PROBABLY NOT! I think i have seen charts that have max ao2 levels n fresh and sea water topping off at about 17% usually tapering off at the magical 68 degrees but more often fresh water lakes are 8 to 12 ppm DO. Most DOmeters seem to register up to 20 ppm. IS THAT AN UNSAFE AMOUNT. Hardly, considering how much o2 is in the root zone with Aeroponics, fogponics, etc. Up to 21000 ppm, yes that is right air is 21% O2 which is % x 10,000 = ppm. I imagine that water might hold more than 20% DO for a short period of time. NO doubt, the bubbles are much finer than any air stone and swirl around in the water, not necessarily rising straight to the surface.
I do understand that fertilizer salts could react in some negative way TBD, but i watch a twinstar aquarium system over 30 ddays growing plants and shrimp and the ddevice does not kill the fish and helps eliminate ammonia, no algae. Perhaps one could use a dry cell hho genrator using ro or distilled water and use a small water pump with a venturi and deliver the fine f bubbles to nutrient or grow reservoir. ebay and aliba have some small o2 type gens for about $50 that look just like the twinstar which is about $120v. Let me know how your experiments go, this could be very interesting and progressive
 
P

PhatNuggz

Well-Known Member
What I've learned so far using the O2Grow 2020 is:

The O2G is an auto timer to control 30 minute cycle, then shuts off. Needs to be on a timer, depending on rez volume and which system. The 2020 is designed for ~ 10 (one emitter) or-20 gallons with 2 emitters

Since pure water does not conduct electricity, you need some minerals in the water to generate electrolysis, but not much, guessing 200-300ppm

I had 4 rough starts in a row, had to toss those plants due to root rot, which was unrelated to the O2G

Seems emitters only work for clones with an established root system

Got a good grow (from seed) going now, will try O2G again once they are big enough to move into my DIY F & D (see picture), where I will use the O2G. Hoping the nutrient transport from pump into the rezes doesn't dissipate the DO

First pic should be last. It's previous grow in my DIY F & D.

Second Pic is my newest attempt to creat DO and energize the solution using a 80 gph pump with tubing fitted into soad bottle that has platonic solids: holes drilled to express the energized solution. So far seems to work amazing. Has to be on a timer. Still dialing it in, but currently 30 seconds on/10 minutes off. The plastic bottle has to have enugh holes to allow the solution to exit without spraying. I am using a air pump on low as a back up

hth

IMG_4234.JPG


IMG_4803.JPGIMG_4800.JPG
 
The_Dude

The_Dude

Well-Known Member
PhatNuggz said:
What I've learned so far using the O2Grow 2020 is:

The O2G is an auto timer to control 30 minute cycle, then shuts off. Needs to be on a timer, depending on rez volume and which system. The 2020 is designed for ~ 10 (one emitter) or-20 gallons with 2 emitters

Since pure water does not conduct electricity, you need some minerals in the water to generate electrolysis, but not much, guessing 200-300ppm

I had 4 rough starts in a row, had to toss those plants due to root rot, which was unrelated to the O2G

Seems emitters only work for clones with an established root system

Got a good grow (from seed) going now, will try O2G again once they are big enough to move into my DIY F & D (see picture), where I will use the O2G. Hoping the nutrient transport from pump into the rezes doesn't dissipate the DO

First pic should be last. It's previous grow in my DIY F & D.

Second Pic is my newest attempt to creat DO and energize the solution using a 80 gph pump with tubing fitted into soad bottle that has platonic solids: holes drilled to express the energized solution. So far seems to work amazing. Has to be on a timer. Still dialing it in, but currently 30 seconds on/10 minutes off. The plastic bottle has to have enugh holes to allow the solution to exit without spraying. I am using a air pump on low as a back up

hth

View attachment 4424498


View attachment 4424496View attachment 4424497
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Any update?
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Thing is, water can only hold so much dissolved oxygen and there is plenty in the air to provide that. This seems unnecessary.
 
P

PhatNuggz

Well-Known Member
The_Dude said:
Any update?
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I am just finishing the 2 plants that have only had my DIY platonic solids + GPH pump in my DIY F & D rig
Renfro said:
Thing is, water can only hold so much dissolved oxygen and there is plenty in the air to provide that. This seems unnecessary.
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and where oh where did you come across this knowledge. Is there a scientific paper that you can refer me to, where vaious amounts of DO was in separate nutrient solutions/rezes feeding actual cannabis plants?
.
 
Mikenike

Mikenike

Well-Known Member
If I’m not mistaken, the max o2 water can hold is 12-13ppm and on top of providing enough o2, the water needs to be cold enough to hold it as well. Something like 58f degrees
 
P

PhatNuggz

Well-Known Member
Mikenike said:
If I’m not mistaken, the max o2 water can hold is 12-13ppm and on top of providing enough o2, the water needs to be cold enough to hold it as well. Something like 58f degrees
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Regardless of +/- 12-13 (and yes as stated depends on H20 temperature). Alas, Im pretty sure no scientific experiments are underway, but even then, quite likely a dissenting party has done the same experiments and concluded the opposite. So, that aside, it's up to intrepretation/experimentation. Im all for increasing O2. Even the 0.07% percentage difference between 12 and 13% could be very significant

As the root structure is the plants first point of contact to; temperature, nutrients/ppms, pH, then why not available O2. Well one problem is DO meters start ~ $500 and supposedly don't last long, so....

I do know this, when I went from using a 2 outlet air pump to a 4 outlet (and larger air flow) the seedling/clone roots really liked it
 
Mikenike

Mikenike

Well-Known Member
PhatNuggz said:
Regardless of +/- 12-13 (and yes as stated depends on H20 temperature). Alas, Im pretty sure no scientific experiments are underway, but even then, quite likely a dissenting party has done the same experiments and concluded the opposite. So, that aside, it's up to intrepretation/experimentation. Im all for increasing O2. Even the 0.07% percentage difference between 12 and 13% could be very significant

As the root structure is the plants first point of contact to; temperature, nutrients/ppms, pH, then why not available O2. Well one problem is DO meters start ~ $500 and supposedly don't last long, so....

I do know this, when I went from using a 2 outlet air pump to a 4 outlet (and larger air flow) the seedling/clone roots really liked it
Click to expand...
I’m am totally all for maximizing o2 man. I try to pump as much air as I can into my r/dwc buckets. 50lpm per plant is what I aim for, while diffusing the air as much as possible.
What are you keeping your water temps at?
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
PhatNuggz said:
I am just finishing the 2 plants that have only had my DIY platonic solids + GPH pump in my DIY F & D rig


and where oh where did you come across this knowledge. Is there a scientific paper that you can refer me to, where vaious amounts of DO was in separate nutrient solutions/rezes feeding actual cannabis plants?
.
Click to expand...


There used to be a really good read that I had found like 16 years ago but I can't find it now. Basically the limit is low and easy to achieve by simply disturbing the water surface with a water fall or floom.
 
P

PhatNuggz

Well-Known Member
Mikenike said:
I’m am totally all for maximizing o2 man. I try to pump as much air as I can into my r/dwc buckets. 50lpm per plant is what I aim for, while diffusing the air as much as possible.
What are you keeping your water temps at?
Click to expand...

My rez is an Igloo cooler. I rotate frozen blue ice packs every ~ 1.5 hours, except during lights out, so mostly < 74*s
 
P

PhatNuggz

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
That is also pumping in heat. No point in pumping more air than required.
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Some, but how much depends on where the air pump is and the ambient air surrounding it

But, this is why I DIYed my platonic solids DO generator. It combines a fully submerged gph pump spraying/recirculating the nutes through the plastic bottle, which is on 3 minutes every ~ 45 minutes (veg) - 1.5 hours (flower)
 
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