Safest food grade diy ph down

[applepoop1984]

If you had bothered reading the first link, it's "for hydroponics" pure urea, intended for mixing as a hydroponic nutrient. It was only there to show that urea intended for hydroponics exist.

Second, you edited your post from "name one hydroponic nutrient that uses urea" to "name 1 hydroponic mix that uses an appreciable amount of urea to supply N". Well I think I satisfied both of those.

Third, I'm not arguing that you should use urea in hydroponics. My position always was that it existed in manufacturer formulas.

Like I already said, took 5 minutes of googling msds

busted we know he's arguing just to be right, why edit your comment?

 

[churchhaze]

And none of what you said has anything to do with phosphoric acid and at best is thread jacking less you have something meaningful to contribute please move along

I'm not the one who brought up urea, but I will make it clear to hydro growers who like success to avoid fertilizers that provide the majority of N through urea. Those fertilizers are meant for soil and potting mixes. Calcium nitrate is the key to hydro.

 

[churchhaze]

If you had bothered reading the first link, it's "for hydroponics" pure urea, intended for mixing as a hydroponic nutrient. It was only there to show that urea intended for hydroponics exist.

Second, you edited your post from "name one hydroponic nutrient that uses urea" to "name 1 hydroponic mix that uses an appreciable amount of urea to supply N". Well I think I satisfied both of those.

Third, I'm not arguing that you should use urea in hydroponics. My position always was that it existed in manufacturer formulas.

Like I already said, took 5 minutes of googling msds

I am sorry that I edited my post. I didn't realize you were going to respond so quickly. I edited my post before I saw your post. Either way, it's the edited statement I stand by. There's a reason I edited it. (I know there's some urea is in many popular formulas).

Sorry, but you're wrong about the pure urea being meant for hydroponics. It's not how they advertise it and it's not how you should use it.

 

[Dumme]

I'm not the one who brought up urea, but I will make it clear to hydro growers who like success to avoid fertilizers that provide the majority of N through urea. Those fertilizers are meant for soil and potting mixes. Calcium nitrate is the key to hydro.

I use 100% urea for nitrogen, in my hydroponic (soil-less) aquaponic system. My last harvest was 1.45gpw. No 2 gardens are alike. I don't use Calcium Nitrate.

 

[Flagg420]

Am I the only fucker here who thinks DIY PH down is.... just a bit much?

I feel its not all that expensive, or hard to come by.... and if needed in large amounts, and often..... theres probably something else that needs adjusting that is causing the Ph problem....

DIY an LED setup, or a tent, DIY some crazy water system, or a vert cage.......... but Ph down? Fucking Ph down?

Thats either a very bored person, or a very cheap person..... I love saving money, but theres gotta be a line somewhere....

Meh... mebbe its just me... /endrant

 

[churchhaze]

Am I the only fucker here who thinks DIY PH down is.... just a bit much?

I feel its not all that expensive, or hard to come by.... and if needed in large amounts, and often..... theres probably something else that needs adjusting that is causing the Ph problem....

DIY an LED setup, or a tent, DIY some crazy water system, or a vert cage.......... but Ph down? Fucking Ph down?

Thats either a very bored person, or a very cheap person..... I love saving money, but theres gotta be a line somewhere....

Meh... mebbe its just me... /endrant

What's the difference between DIY pH down and commercial pH down? In fact, how can you even call a DIY with one ingredient a DIY? They're simply buying pH down and calling it DIY.

 

[Dumme]

... lol...I make home made DIY urea.

 

[churchhaze]

I use 100% urea for nitrogen, in my hydroponic (soil-less) aquaponic system. My last harvest was 1.45gpw. No 2 gardens are alike. I don't use Calcium Nitrate.

How do you supply calcium?

 

[Dumme]

Mostly tap water.
Edit:
...but I have a do have calcium sulfate as backup, and I do use DE foodgrade, for bug control.

 

[Dumme]

Mostly? What else do you use to supply calcium?

My target calcium is approximately 100-125ppm. My city tap is more than adequate for that. I rarely show calcium deficiencies.

 

[applepoop1984]

Am I the only fucker here who thinks DIY PH down is.... just a bit much?

I feel its not all that expensive, or hard to come by.... and if needed in large amounts, and often..... theres probably something else that needs adjusting that is causing the Ph problem....

DIY an LED setup, or a tent, DIY some crazy water system, or a vert cage.......... but Ph down? Fucking Ph down?

Thats either a very bored person, or a very cheap person..... I love saving money, but theres gotta be a line somewhere....

Meh... mebbe its just me... /endrant

The main reason I did this write-up just because there's a similar thread at the top of the DIY forum for do-it-yourself PH down using sulfuric acid. That write-up does not even mention sulfuric acid being a carcinogen as well as how dangerous it can be. I'd say a $50 bottle of phosphoric acid which is much safer and is not a carcinogen and will last you probably a lifetime of growing is a significantly better option. Is that seem reasonable or am I over-reaching

 

[cannabineer]

I use 100% urea for nitrogen, in my hydroponic (soil-less) aquaponic system. My last harvest was 1.45gpw. No 2 gardens are alike. I don't use Calcium Nitrate.

Aquaponics will convert the urea to nitrate via fermentation and bacterial oxidation. So this is not a representative use of urea.

I blend my nutes from inorganic chemicals, and calcium nitrate (the available double salt with some ammonium) is my go-to N source.

 

[Dumme]

Aquaponics will convert the urea to nitrate via fermentation and bacterial oxidation. So this is not a representative use of urea.

I blend my nutes from inorganic chemicals, and calcium nitrate (the available double salt with some ammonium) is my go-to N source.

The nitrification of urea works the same regardless of substrate.

 

[cannabineer]

You've flipped back and forth like twenty times in this thread, and refuse to admit that sulfuric acid is dangerous. The first source you linked LITERALLY says "this is one of the most hazardous acids to use" referring to sulfuric acid. AND RIGHT AFTER "for low amounts of alkalinity removal, phosphoric acid may be the acid of choice", you know like tap water that isn't super hard.

What?

All mineral acids are dangerous in careless or untrained hands. I see very little difference in the Big Three: phoaphoric, nitric, sulfuric. (I discount hydrochloric because the chloride ion is useless to Cannabis and only serves to lock useful ions out.)

I find sulfuric acid to be a good way to regulate pH, and it is nearly neutral ... not in a Brønsted sense but in terms of shifting the usual nutrient ion concentrations. Battery acid is cheap, clean and effective.

Phosphoric acid has all the dangers of sulfuric: it is corrosive, non-volatile and exothermic upon dilution.

So it is my opinion that becoming parochial about pH-down choice is argument for its own sake.

This is all jmo, but that opinion has been shaped by my spending a lifetime in the synthetic-chemist shenanigan. Fwiw.

 

[cannabineer]

The nitrification of urea works the same regardless of substrate.

I do not agree. My hydro was aseptic and the organisms were not available. With aquaponics, you are running an aerobic community that does the important part: urea to ammonium to nitrate.

Few folks care to run an aseptic grow ... and then many discount the assistance of the microherd.

 

[cannabineer]

Mostly tap water.
Edit:
...but I have a do have calcium sulfate as backup, and I do use DE foodgrade, for bug control.

DE is nearly pure silica; no calcium.

I use calcium sulfate in my formulae.

It is little appreciated that the macronutrients are not only N P K but also S Ca Mg. Hydroponickers need to work with that, esp. when using RO or DI water as I am wont to do.

 

[dstroy]

All mineral acids are dangerous in careless or untrained hands. I see very little difference in the Big Three: phoaphoric, nitric, sulfuric. (I discount hydrochloric because the chloride ion is useless to Cannabis and only serves to lock useful ions out.)

I find sulfuric acid to be a good way to regulate pH, and it is nearly neutral ... not in a Brønsted sense but in terms of shifting the usual nutrient ion concentrations. Battery acid is cheap, clean and effective.

Phosphoric acid has all the dangers of sulfuric: it is corrosive, non-volatile and exothermic upon dilution.

So it is my opinion that becoming parochial about pH-down choice is argument for its own sake.

This is all jmo, but that opinion has been shaped by my spending a lifetime in the synthetic-chemist shenanigan. Fwiw.

http://www.iclfertilizers.com/Fertilizers/Knowledge Center/Chloride.pdf

https://www.ipipotash.org/udocs/chloride-an-essential-nutrient.pdf

http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/repositoryfiles/ca1009p10-64551.pdf

Chloride is an essential plant nutrient. It can be absorbed through leaves as well as roots.

Were you meaning that it didn't need to be present in nutrient solution because it is already present in the air? Or are you aware of a new study that discounts chloride from Cannabis?

I disagree on the safety aspect of your opinion, sulfuric acid is a known carcinogen while both nitric and phosphoric are not considered carcinogenic. That's extra danger on top of the immediate danger of acids.

But hey, you do you.

 

[cannabineer]

http://www.iclfertilizers.com/Fertilizers/Knowledge Center/Chloride.pdf

https://www.ipipotash.org/udocs/chloride-an-essential-nutrient.pdf

http://ucce.ucdavis.edu/files/repositoryfiles/ca1009p10-64551.pdf

Chloride is an essential plant nutrient. It can be absorbed through leaves as well as roots.

Were you meaning that it didn't need to be present in nutrient solution because it is already present in the air? Or are you aware of a new study that discounts chloride from Cannabis?

I disagree on the safety aspect of your opinion, sulfuric acid is a known carcinogen while both nitric and phosphoric are not considered carcinogenic. That's extra danger on top of the immediate danger of acids.

But hey, you do you.

Many plants tolerate chloride well. Mangrove is one. Cannabis isn't one. 100ppm Cl- will lock out nitrate and other monovalents. It is like feeding a starving person Metamucil ... which strikes me as wilfully cruel. ~shrug~

Sulfuric acid is not a carcinogen. Sulfate is a necessary human nutrient.

So I challenge both your arguments at the root level of the facts employed to make them.

~edit~ I found reason to change my stance on the carcinogenicity of sulfuric acid.

https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/content/profiles/stronginorganicacidmists.pdf

However the claim is specific to H2SO4 aerosols. Using a simple face mask while compounding the pH-down will remove this hazard. Sulfuric has not shown any cancer risk by ingestion or skin contact. Typically, other symptoms predominate.

I also imagine that the carcinogenicity of the "strong inorganic mists" will prove to be similar regardless of the mineral acid used. I am thinking of phosphoric.

 

[Dumme]

Many plants tolerate chloride well. Mangrove is one. Cannabis isn't one. 100ppm Cl- will lock out nitrate and other monovalents. It is like feeding a starving person Metamucil ... which strikes me as wilfully cruel. ~shrug~

Sulfuric acid is not a carcinogen. Sulfate is a necessary human nutrient.

So I challenge both your arguments at the root level of the facts employed to make them.

My target Chloride ppm is in the 110 range.

...throughout the grow (flower & veg)

 

[cannabineer]

My target Chloride ppm is in the 110 range.

I am sure your plants grow well in that. Also in an aquaponic system you cannot optimize for any one species. The animals and plants that are part of your biome need to share one solution. I bet the fish need chloride.

Since I grew hydro and not aqua, I did not need to seek and implement the optimum compromise that aquaponics embodies. I used reagent-grade feedstocks and RO/DI water. I blended my own micros. i controlled that grow from seed to flower. It worked great. I kept chloride below 1ppm. So i conclude that Cannabis needs no more than trace chloride, and I want to keep those ppm for known nutrient ions.

I will admit this. Cannabis has a pretty broad optimum of various nutrient concentrations. A half-ideal solution will get you 90% of potential, while a perfect solution gives you an increment of, at best,an increment of 10%.

So I am a big believer in going with proven effective solutions; the potential for improvement on them is usually slight.

I am not assailing your method. I came here to defend sulfuric acid as an eminently sensible choice as a hydroponic pH-down agent.