Mark Blyth, the economist who's making sense

[UncleBuck]

i'll not get into a debate with you regarding that topic

in other words, you lied and cannot provide any citation for your "facts" because they are not facts, they are your lies.

 

[Fogdog]

in other words, you lied and cannot provide any citation for your "facts" because they are not facts, they are your lies.

@undercovergrow is not a liar, she's repeating alternative facts. I want to see that link containing facts that aren't true.

 

[ttystikk]

that's how the system is right now before the government telling everyone to buy it. my son can't afford the requirements of Obamacare and each year has paid the penalty. how is that helping?

It's helping pay for those who did buy insurance. I agree it wasn't a great situation.

It is also true that the Republican Party to a man did everything they could to oppose the whole program, including starving it of funds. You might look at their behavior for the reason why it became unaffordable.

In states where (Democratic) politicians worked to help the program succeed, outcomes were radically different and better for everyone.

 

[undercovergrow]

I am just asking for a link to show the facts behind your conclusions Planned Parenthood. You made a claim that sounds fishy to me and I'm asking for you to back that claim with some facts. Your belief is suspect. A debate about belief still requires facts to keep it rational. We have people here who believe all sorts of weird stuff and I don't want to lump you into the category of them.

After all, you've given me the best description of how a Trump believer can make it through the week without losing their mind. They suspend all disbelief and pick or choose whatever they want to believe. You've taken it one step farther and called it a fact that isn't true. I can't even make that up.

So, then, a link to background information to show the facts behind your claim that PP is only about abortion and answer my earlier question please:

right here is why we can just discontinue this -- some of your beliefs and lack of ability to engage in a conversation with someone who doesn't think like you is why we as a nation will never resolve basic problems because if we can't just engage each other civilly on a cannabis site, then where can we? i can see where someone like you wouldn't help your side at all - not only are you hostile to the other side but even someone in the middle you're unable to be a regular person.

 

[undercovergrow]

It's helping pay for those who did buy insurance. I agree it wasn't a great situation.

It is also true that the Republican Party to a man did everything they could to oppose the whole program, including starving it of funds. You might look at their behavior for the reason why it became unaffordable.

In states where (Democratic) politicians worked to help the program succeed, outcomes were radically different and better for everyone.

the history of the Democrat party is evidence they are not a solution either - both parties are corrupt.

 

[UncleBuck]

right here is why we can just discontinue this -- some of your beliefs and lack of ability to engage in a conversation with someone who doesn't think like you is why we as a nation will never resolve basic problems because if we can't just engage each other civilly on a cannabis site, then where can we? i can see where someone like you wouldn't help your side at all - not only are you hostile to the other side but even someone in the middle you're unable to be a regular person.

how is it possible to have a civil conversation with someone who lies to me and then runs away when asked to provide citation for their lies?

the lies you spew to us are completely disrespectful to us, they are insulting.

and then you accuse us of being hostile?

nice try, liar.

 

[UncleBuck]

the history of the Democrat party is evidence they are not a solution either - both parties are corrupt.

what history are we talking about here? the part where they always reduce or eliminate the deficit? the fact that the economy always does well with a democrat at the helm? the fact that tens of millions get insurance under dems? the expansion of the social safety net under dems?

be specific here, liar.

 

[ttystikk]

right here is why we can just discontinue this -- some of your beliefs and lack of ability to engage in a conversation with someone who doesn't think like you is why we as a nation will never resolve basic problems because if we can't just engage each other civilly on a cannabis site, then where can we? i can see where someone like you wouldn't help your side at all - not only are you hostile to the other side but even someone in the middle you're unable to be a regular person.

But you're not using factual information. Worse, you repeat incorrect info and outright propaganda and expect others to simply believe it without complaint.

 

[ttystikk]

the history of the Democrat party is evidence they are not a solution either - both parties are corrupt.

They passed the best bill they thought they could get through Congress and the determined opposition of the Republicans. To this day, those same Republicans are doing their very best to sabotage and destroy the program so they can then call it a failure.

They do this to afford tax cuts for the extremely wealthy. Why do you defend their actions?

 

[Fogdog]

right here is why we can just discontinue this -- some of your beliefs and lack of ability to engage in a conversation with someone who doesn't think like you is why we as a nation will never resolve basic problems because if we can't just engage each other civilly on a cannabis site, then where can we? i can see where someone like you wouldn't help your side at all - not only are you hostile to the other side but even someone in the middle you're unable to be a regular person.

Oh, yes. I'm hostile to the political group who endorses the religious right's assault on freedom in this country. Also hostile to the group that will, if not stopped, will deprive 24 million people of health care coverage. And on top of that literally kill elderly when their cuts in medicaid are enacted. Not to mention deprive working class poor women of reproductive health care services provided in some areas only by Planned Parenthood. I'm completely hostile to that.

On the other hand, you came here and spouted that crap and now are weaseling out of the discussion by your false claim of outrage.

I asked you some very direct and simple questions that you simply can't answer using real facts because what you said simply isn't true. You can admit this and have my grudging respect. If you want to should on people about things they can't afford then you have my disrespect. If you want to tout alternative facts then you have my contempt.

That said, I will remember you fondly for gifting me with that gem of illogic.

 

[fdd2blk]

Oh, yes. I'm hostile to the political group who endorses the religious right's assault on freedom in this country. Also hostile to the group that will, if not stopped, will deprive 24 million people of health care coverage. And on top of that literally kill elderly when their cuts in medicaid are enacted. Not to mention deprive working class poor women of reproductive health care services provided in some areas only by Planned Parenthood. I'm completely hostile to that.

On the other hand, you came here and spouted that crap and now are weaseling out of the discussion by your false claim of outrage.

I asked you some very direct and simple questions that you simply can't answer using real facts because what you said simply isn't true. You can admit this and have my grudging respect. If you want to should on people about things they can't afford then you have my disrespect. If you want to tout alternative facts then you have my contempt.

That said, I will remember you fondly for gifting me with that gem of illogic.

They're going to KILL Granny!!!
Stfu, spaz.

 

[UncleBuck]

They're going to KILL Granny!!!
Stfu, spaz.

with lifetime caps going bye bye and the cuts to medicaid, deaths will occur.

not to mention the 6 month waiting period to get insurance should your coverage ever lapse. good way to let stage 2 cancer metastasize into stage 4. brilliant.

 

[Fogdog]

They're going to KILL Granny!!!
Stfu, spaz.

You can't see the implications of cuts in medicaid. You can't grasp the obvious result? You have the imagination of a termite.

Come to think of it, I now have to find a termite and apologize to it for insulting its imagination.

 

[Fogdog]

the history of the Democrat party is evidence they are not a solution either - both parties are corrupt.

Naive.

(too funny this, this is exactly where we began a conversation. At that time, @ttystikk came to her defense. I don't think he'll ever live it down.)

 

[ttystikk]

Naive.

(too funny this, this is exactly where we began a conversation. At that time, @ttystikk came to her defense. I don't think he'll ever live it down.)

The corruption may be different, but denying that Democrats are also taking corporate cash and shading their decisions is hard for me and millions of others to accept.

 

[Fogdog]

The corruption may be different, but denying that Democrats are also taking corporate cash and shading their decisions is hard for me and millions of others to accept.

Accepting campaign donations are not corrupt acts. Only if the candidate uses the money to enrich themselves for something of value through the representative's office. If Bernie is found to have illegally accepted money from a bank in exchange for some good given using his power as a Senator that would be corrupt. Also illegal. As it is right now, even the current investigation into inappropriate bank loans is to determine if Bernie is in violation of finance laws and not if he's to be charged with committing a corrupt corrupt act. The word "corrupt" is politically negative, accusatory and therefore should be used appropriately. Your use, in this instance is incorrect.

I'd like to see the huge PAC donations be made illegal. As it stands, they are a source of campaign financing that a politician has to think twice about if they want to get elected. Accepting large sums from one donor cuts fundraising time needed to stay in office. More time spent on killing Trumpcare, for instance.

I get what you are saying, however.

 

[ttystikk]

Accepting campaign donations are not corrupt acts. Only if the candidate uses the money to enrich themselves for something of value through the representative's office. If Bernie is found to have illegally accepted money from a bank in exchange for some good given using his power as a Senator that would be corrupt. Also illegal. As it is right now, even the current investigation into inappropriate bank loans is to determine if Bernie is in violation of finance laws and not if he's to be charged with committing a corrupt corrupt act. The word "corrupt" is politically negative, accusatory and therefore should be used appropriately. Your use, in this instance is incorrect.

I'd like to see the huge PAC donations be made illegal. As it stands, they are a source of campaign financing that a politician has to think twice about if they want to get elected. Accepting large sums from one donor cuts fundraising time needed to stay in office. More time spent on killing Trumpcare, for instance.

I get what you are saying, however.

It doesn't have to be illegal to be a corrupt practice.

Nonetheless, one needs to get elected to effect change.

This has to come from the people, and that momentum is building, if slowly.

 

[Fogdog]

It doesn't have to be illegal to be a corrupt practice.

Nonetheless, one needs to get elected to effect change.

This has to come from the people, and that momentum is building, if slowly.

It has to be money given to an office holder for an understood value from his office for there to be a corrupt act. The words corrupt practice implies this, which is why I keep asking for specifics. The word has weight and when there was no corrupt act, which, in many cases when you say "corrupt", there is none, then your use of this word is an unfair smear of reputations.

Ron Wyden, Jeff Merkley, Peter DeFazio are all reps from Oregon who accept campaign donations but all have a very clear voting record against Citizen's United, for universal heathcare coverage and against lax regulations on Wall Street. Many other issues important to me as well. And so, your broad "Democratic Party Corrupt" brush is objectionable, false and harms the very causes you and I support.

I'll call you out every time you say these untrue words. And ask for specifics. Because the use of the word matters. Also because the same libel is repeatedly and falsely used against generic "Democrats" by right wing media.

The Republican party is rife with people who are by definition corrupt. It shows in legal actions against elected officials of that party. Very easy to find such actions documented in legal actions against Republicans. Search on Democrat corruption and you wont see the same at all.

I fail to see how falsely calling Democrats corrupt is helping to build that momentum you want while tearing down the only institution that can effect it.

 

[undercovergrow]

But you're not using factual information. Worse, you repeat incorrect info and outright propaganda and expect others to simply believe it without complaint.

ok, if that's what you think is going on

 

[UncleBuck]

ok, if that's what you think is going on

show us your source proving that over half of what planned parenthood does is abortion.

not that there would even be anything wrong with that. abortion is safe, legal, and rare thanks to planned parenthood.

you lying fucking retard.