GR’s Stacked 315W CMH Vertical, G13 Haze, 2017

gr865

Well-Known Member
Guess I should apologize to y'all for my language in dealing with jonsnow,
He persisted in being a pain and I lost it, I have been reprimanded by Sunni and have apologised to her also.
He has been banded for my journal and our post during that exchange have been deleted.
Again, to you folks that have been following my journal I am truly sorry for my outburst.

GR
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Guess I should apologize to y'all for my language in dealing with jonsnow,
He persisted in being a pain and I lost it, I have been reprimanded by Sunni and have apologised to her also.
He has been banded for my journal and our post during that exchange have been deleted.
Again, to you folks that have been following my journal I am truly sorry for my outburst.

GR
Live n learn bro- can't let the jerks get under your skin.
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
Tomorrow I will do a flush till the rez is empty, clean and replace the nute solution. Will also treat with SM90 for fungal gnat control, have not had a problem and do not want one.
Will pull the ladies out of the tent, reposition some of the bud sites and do a minor trim if needed. Did a major defo Friday morning and they are recovering fine.
Post and update tomorrow with a few pics.

GR
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
Got home last night after a weekend away, everything watered but looking at the outsides of the smart pots that on Thurs. had tons of roots growing through the pots, now has brown dead root on the outsides of the pots and the outsides of the pots were really damp/saturated. I had gone from a three time a cycle irrigation to 4 last weekend, reduced the times and all was fine all week long. Looking in the upper rez the amount of liquid used during the weekend it used the amount of solution I expected it to use. I had filled the upper rez then turn off the lower recirculation rez and I am able to get three nights of watering on the upper rez alone. Checked the EC and it was 1.46 and the pH was fine at 6.01. When I set them on Friday they were 1.45 EC and 5.78 pH. So I eliminated that as a cause, I have been treating with SM90 for fungal gnats and have not seen any, so eliminated that as a cause. I do believe that shutting down the recirculation has stabilized my solution and can hold pH in the proper range for days at a time.

The plants don't seem to be bothered much by it as far as I can tell. Other than the pots being too saturated all seems ok, and the defo from Thurs. and Fri. is filling in well. The only thing I can single out is that I have changed in the past couple of weeks is I quit giving them Great White two weeks ago. Other than the cycle times and amount of solution given that is all that has been changed. So I shut down the drip system as they aren’t drinking as much and at lights on last night I gave them a hand watering of nute solution and Great White, to about 30+% runoff. This morning I checked them and the pots were still damp but light so I know they drank well last night. I am going to leave the system down and hand water with GW and nute solution for a few days and see how it goes.

So I am not pulling them out of the tent to work on them today, did some work inside the tent, tied the branches that were growing into the lamp, plucked and tucked a few fan leaves and back the plants away from the lamp an inch or so. Will give them a few days then do the flush and rez change sometimes later this week.

If anyone has any thoughts would love to hear them. I think I jinxed myself when I got in the altercation with Jonsnow this past week. It is a Karma thing! I should have just reported him and not confronted him. Ty, your right.


GR
 
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TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
ive thought about going vert,, but the veg time worries me.. now in sog i veg clones no more than 2 weeks, pack as many plants as i can...if i went vert could i yield the same w/ lowering my plant numbers?? im way over my legal number of plants,, im allowed 24,, i have 37 in bloom and at times 40 in veg awaiting the 37 to finish.. other times 37 in bloom and 6-8 mothers.. i grow in a basement room 12x12 with a 7ft ceiling height,, i am now using 2 315 cmh and 2 100 watt citizen led's in bloom and 1 315 and 1 100 watt citizen in veg.. but i have 4 315's and 4 100 watt citizens, should i try vert?
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
ive thought about going vert,, but the veg time worries me.. now in sog i veg clones no more than 2 weeks, pack as many plants as i can...if i went vert could i yield the same w/ lowering my plant numbers?? im way over my legal number of plants,, im allowed 24,, i have 37 in bloom and at times 40 in veg awaiting the 37 to finish.. other times 37 in bloom and 6-8 mothers.. i grow in a basement room 12x12 with a 7ft ceiling height,, i am now using 2 315 cmh and 2 100 watt citizen led's in bloom and 1 315 and 1 100 watt citizen in veg.. but i have 4 315's and 4 100 watt citizens, should i try vert?
Vertical with larger plants keeps you closer to your legal count. You just veg longer and the plants grow bigger at an exponential rate. That is, you'll get more than double the yield from a plant vegged for 4 weeks than for 2.
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
@TheChemist77 Why don't you stack 2x 315w vert and have two areas flowering at different stages and then use your 400w of cobs to veg with. Or go with a perpetual lower profile vert so your plants are smaller with less veg. The options are numerous.

Hey @gr865 have you sussed out the situation with the roots? How come those smart pots have roots poking out anyhow? I thought they were supposed to air prune when they poked out?
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
@TheChemist77 Why don't you stack 2x 315w vert and have two areas flowering at different stages and then use your 400w of cobs to veg with. Or go with a perpetual lower profile vert so your plants are smaller with less veg. The options are numerous.

Hey @gr865 have you sussed out the situation with the roots? How come those smart pots have roots poking out anyhow? I thought they were supposed to air prune when they poked out?
I have not worked it out yet, but I have started again and will continue to add Great White by hand watering for a few days and see what happens.
That is how smart pots work is the root grow to the edge of the pot and instead of turning under and creating a root bound problem the roots poke through the pot and are air pruned.
This pic is from May 25th.
20170525_081540.jpg

This is today!
20170626_124445 (2).jpg
 
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ttystikk

Well-Known Member
I have not worked it out yet, but I have started again and will continue to add Great White by hand watering for a few days and see what happens.
That is how smart pots work is the root grow to the edge of the pot and instead of turning under and creating a root bound problem the roots poke through the pot and are air pruned.
This pic is from May 25th.
View attachment 3967455

This is today!
View attachment 3967457
So what's wrong with the roots?
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
So what's wrong with the roots?

Not sure, they have ceased growing from the sides of the pots, they are not drinking near as much as they have been, As of yet they don't seem the worst for wear, maybe a bit of slowdown in growth but that could be from my manipulation technique.
I have been using the correct rates of my Canna supplements, Cannazym, Rhizotonic, Boost. and still running low A&B levels (550 ppm). pH levels have been very stable.
Don't think it is a root fungal or disease problem. I think my wet and dry cycles are fucked up. That would explain the slowdown in growth. Will hand water for a bit and see if that doesn't help the situation.

GR
 

JDMase

Well-Known Member
Isn't that air pruning happening? They shouldn't be able to survive in the air, so once they poke through, they prune themselves. Maybe the fact that there's so many doing it at once is taking a toll on the plant by growing new roots further back along so water uptake has slowed?

Not sure if that last part makes sense, in my head im now thinking that would cause them to be more thirsty.
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
Isn't that air pruning happening? They shouldn't be able to survive in the air, so once they poke through, they prune themselves. Maybe the fact that there's so many doing it at once is taking a toll on the plant by growing new roots further back along so water uptake has slowed?

Not sure if that last part makes sense, in my head im now thinking that would cause them to be more thirsty.
It is the younger finer roots that do the most uptake. So the larger tips that are poking through is really not a water absorber. I did a paper on that in college, agronomy major, did a full year of greenhouse work on turfgrass for golf courses. We were working on a grass species that required less water than the normal turf and doing some breeding to get those traits and produce a sports quality turfgrass.
I think after I get the cycle back in order it will be fine. May need to run them a little drier.
What seem to work well during veg was to run lighter cycles with no runoff in cycle 1 - 2 and the third run to 30+% runoff. I did that during the switch to 4 cycles but even lowering the watering rates seems to be too much.
But one thing at a time, for the next few days I will be watering with nutes and Great White by hand two times during the light cycle to runoff, the first will be 2 hrs after lights on and the second will be two to three hours prior to lights off.
Right now I am playing every thing by ear, and wouldn't you know it I am damn near deaf. bongsmilie

GR
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
It is the younger finer roots that do the most uptake. So the larger tips that are poking through is really not a water absorber. I did a paper on that in college, agronomy major, did a full year of greenhouse work on turfgrass for golf courses. We were working on a grass species that required less water than the normal turf and doing some breeding to get those traits and produce a sports quality turfgrass.
I think after I get the cycle back in order it will be fine. May need to run them a little drier.
What seem to work well during veg was to run lighter cycles with no runoff in cycle 1 - 2 and the third run to 30+% runoff. I did that during the switch to 4 cycles but even lowering the watering rates seems to be too much.
But one thing at a time, for the next few days I will be watering with nutes and Great White by hand two times during the light cycle to runoff, the first will be 2 hrs after lights on and the second will be two to three hours prior to lights off.
Right now I am playing every thing by ear, and wouldn't you know it I am damn near deaf. bongsmilie

GR
I've noticed that these substrates need to get pretty dry at some point during the day and that watering too close to lights out doesn't allow that to happen.

If watering twice a day, maybe run the first at lights or even 30 minutes after and the second halfway through the day cycle.
 

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Ah I see your picture now. Personally I don't think the roots are supposed to poke out like that, its a sign they are too moist so they are not air pruning. Mine don't come out of the cloth pot at all but when I strip them at the end I can see the air pruning has worked.
The only time I have seen roots poke out of the cloth pots is when the pots have been in trays and under the pot stays too moist or shall we say lacks air to perform the air prune. I don't think it matters so much, you water several waters daily where I grow in coco and water once per day, so my cloth does dry and there is lots of air, where yours in moist, the roots will just air prune at a different point. I don't think it will effect your plants. Plus like you say its the micro roots that will be doing most of the work.
 

gr865

Well-Known Member
June 27, 2017
Update: Day 24 12/12

My watering problem is ongoing, not sure it is a problem as it does not seem to affect the plants as far as I can tell.
I do believe the problem is my drip system. The drip heads do not emit the same amount of solution, which means I get uneven distribution. So one plant will be dryer or wetter than the others or all plant are receiving different levels of solution.
I am not sure if it is drip heads or a pressure issue. Here is a breakdown of where the system stands at present.
Cheap 2 gph pressure compensating heads, three/pot
ECO 1056 pump, 1083 gph, 9 foot of head, pressure ? (just don't know)
.25" red rubber tubing, all lengths cut the same.

I am wondering if I can't get better drip nozzles, or if there is a better way?

6/21&22
Manipulation (LST, Supercropping, and Defo)
Did two plants on 6/21 evening, and the other three the morning of the 22nd.
20170627_080523 (2).jpg

G13 4
22nd before, after and today, the 1st pic before defo is fairly rep. of all the before pics, so I am only going to do the defo pics from Thur, Fri,and today
20170622_212335.jpg 20170622_220906 (2).jpg 20170627_070419 (2).jpg
G13 3
6/22 Defo and 6/27
20170622_115709 (3) g13 3.jpg 20170627_074604 (2).jpg
G13 1
6/22 Defo and 6/27
20170622_211749 (2).jpg 20170627_074604 (2).jpg

To Be continued
 

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