bernie sanders: regressive

[ttystikk]

You shot several bolts into the air and I'll just reply to one right now.
Republicans control congress, I agree with Pelosi that passing universal healthcare bills is unrealistic right now. How can you say it's realistic right now? The fight right now is to prevent Republicans from stripping away health care access to tens of millions of people. The Medicare and Medicaid cuts they target will literally kill millions of elderly.

You two white boys are sure comfortable with Republican administrations.

No, I'm not. You're projecting.

 

[ttystikk]

You aren't wrong and you aren't right to say that Democrats are losing in Washington.

Facts supporting your assertion that Democrats can't win are obvious -- Republicans control all three branches of government.and a majority of state houses as well.

Facts against the assertion that Democrats can't win are: More people voted for Democrat Hillary than Republican Trump and Democrats gained seats not only in Congress but also across the country in 2016. Also, voters are just now getting a chance to see how badly Republicans govern and opinion polls as well as recent special elections show changes in levels of support for Democrats.

As far as your "Democratic Party not good enough" BS, it is true that Republican policies aren't going to affect a white man very much. So you don't really care if, say, 11 million families are terrorized by ICE. You aren't accepting Medicare or Medicaid and so aren't affected there either. Not right now, at least. So, yeah, you can be complacent about the Republican policies.. Your right to vote isn't jeopardized and so you don't care if Republican stay in power for five or ten more years.

This is a really ugly, shitty smear of a post and how fucking dare you attribute all that shit to someone who hadn't said anything anywhere near approving of the right wing adminstration's policies.

It's a pure bullshit power play to attempt to assert that if people don't vote specifically for Democrats that somehow they're just Republicans.

Maybe the Democratic Party and Democrats like you need to stop playing such stupid games and actually become an opposition party.

Because they're being good sheepdogs for the right wing agenda and with that steaming pile of dogshit you just posted above, SO ARE YOU.

 

[SneekyNinja]

This is a really ugly, shitty smear of a post and how fucking dare you attribute all that shit to someone who hadn't said anything anywhere near approving of the right wing adminstration's policies.

It's a pure bullshit power play to attempt to assert that if people don't vote specifically for Democrats that somehow they're just Republicans.

Maybe the Democratic Party and Democrats like you need to stop playing such stupid games and actually become an opposition party.

Because they're being good sheepdogs for the right wing agenda and with that steaming pile of dogshit you just posted above, SO ARE YOU.

You can't even rally support amongst normal Democrats...

Winning, right?

Most popular politician, right?

 

[Fogdog]

No, I'm not. You're projecting.

I know you aren't projecting anything. I am projecting that passing universal healthcare bills is unrealistic right now. I'm also projecting health care access for tens of millions of people is on due to be cut under the GOP health care plan. The Medicare and Medicaid cuts they target will literally kill millions of elderly.

And then you cite right wing fake new that the Democratic Party is as corrupt and needs to be torn down.

The result is misery for maybe 25% of this country. But not you.

 

[Fogdog]

This is a really ugly, shitty smear of a post and how fucking dare you attribute all that shit to someone who hadn't said anything anywhere near approving of the right wing adminstration's policies.

It's a pure bullshit power play to attempt to assert that if people don't vote specifically for Democrats that somehow they're just Republicans.

Maybe the Democratic Party and Democrats like you need to stop playing such stupid games and actually become an opposition party.

Because they're being good sheepdogs for the right wing agenda and with that steaming pile of dogshit you just posted above, SO ARE YOU.

I dare say these things because they are true. You and Paddy are comfortable with Republican policies and so can worry about things that are not true.

Paddy's list of "elite corrupt democrats" didn't contain a list of people who have committed corrupt acts. If they did, he failed to show any evidence of such. So, prove me wrong when I say that not a single person on that list is under investigation for corrupt acts as a public servant.

 

[ttystikk]

I know you aren't projecting anything. I am projecting that passing universal healthcare bills is unrealistic right now. I'm also projecting health care access for tens of millions of people is on due to be cut under the GOP health care plan. The Medicare and Medicaid cuts they target will literally kill millions of elderly.

And then you cite right wing fake new that the Democratic Party is as corrupt and needs to be torn down.

The result is misery for maybe 25% of this country. But not you.

Speak for yourself. I need universal healthcare.

 

[ttystikk]

I dare say these things because they are true. You and Paddy are comfortable with Republican policies and so can worry about things that are not true.

Paddy's list of "elite corrupt democrats" didn't contain a list of people who have committed corrupt acts. If they did, he failed to show any evidence of such. So, prove me wrong when I say that not a single person on that list is under investigation for corrupt acts as a public servant.

Legalized corruption is still corruption.

The Democratic party has failed to represent my interests.

Why is that so hard for you to accept?

 

[Fogdog]

Speak for yourself. I need universal healthcare.

Then think of what you propose. The Democratic party splits and takes how long for a third party to form? 10 years, maybe?

When there is this on the Democratic party platform:


“Democrats have been fighting to secure universal health care for the American people for generations, and we are proud to be the party that passed Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act.”

-Democratic Party Platform

Show me where the Republicans say the same thing anywhere on their site.

Republicans prevented adoption of the Universal Health Care plan in 1993 (or so). The ACA was passed in the teeth of tremendous opposition. Universal Health Care would not have made it through. These are facts that you apparently can't adust to.

Yet, you and Paddy are content to sit back and let ICE terrorize tens of millions of people while the GOP congress literally would kill millions of elderly who depend on medicaid in it's current form.

If you really can't live without universal health care coverage, then you taking the exact wrong path to getting it.

 

[ttystikk]

Then think of what you propose. The Democratic party splits and takes how long for a third party to form? 10 years, maybe?

When there is this on the Democratic party platform:


“Democrats have been fighting to secure universal health care for the American people for generations, and we are proud to be the party that passed Medicare, Medicaid, and the Affordable Care Act.”

-Democratic Party Platform

Show me where the Republicans say the same thing anywhere on their site.

Republicans prevented adoption of the Universal Health Care plan in 1993 (or so). The ACA was passed in the teeth of tremendous opposition. Universal Health Care would not have made it through. These are facts that you apparently can't adust to.

Yet, you and Paddy are content to sit back and let ICE terrorize tens of millions of people while the GOP congress literally would kill millions of elderly who depend on medicaid in it's current form.

If you really can't live without universal health care coverage, then you taking the exact wrong path to getting it.

Your opinions. I respect them but I disagree.

The biggest enemy now is Citizens United and the delivery of our political system into the hands of the donor class.

The Democratic Party is as bought and paid for as the Republicans.

Not illegal, but still corrupt.

But feel free to keep supporting a party that does not serve your interests. It's the American way!

 

[Fogdog]

Your opinions. I respect them but I disagree.

The biggest enemy now is Citizens United and the delivery of our political system into the hands of the donor class.

The Democratic Party is as bought and paid for as the Republicans.

Not illegal, but still corrupt.

But feel free to keep supporting a party that does not serve your interests. It's the American way!

What did you just say? Did you cite a fact anywhere? I can't find it.

These are facts, not an opinion: "Republicans prevented adoption of the Universal Health Care plan in 1993 (or so). The ACA was passed in the teeth of tremendous opposition. Universal Health Care would not have made it through. "

Also, the repeal of Citizen's United was supported by every Democratic Party Senator in 2014.

This is an opinion that is supported by your stupid fact free post: "These are facts that you apparently can't adjust to."

 

[ttystikk]

What did you just say? Did you cite a fact anywhere? I can't find it.

These are facts, not an opinion: "Republicans prevented adoption of the Universal Health Care plan in 1993 (or so). The ACA was passed in the teeth of tremendous opposition. Universal Health Care would not have made it through. "

Also, the repeal of Citizen's United was supported by every Democratic Party Senator in 2014.

This is an opinion that is supported by your stupid fact free post: "These are facts that you apparently can't adjust to."

I don't think it will take the Left 10 years to gain power.

It didn't take that long for the Tea Party, but then they had plenty of donor cash.

 

[Fogdog]

I don't think it will take the Left 10 years to gain power.

It didn't take that long for the Tea Party, but then they had plenty of donor cash.

"I don't think" ≠ fact

The Tea Party didn't splinter off from the Republican Party. They changed it. Meanwhile, as you say, they grew representation for wealthy 1% Republicans and were rewarded for that with their unlimited PAC donations. It was a win-win for them.

So, then, if you want a new Democratic Party, change it. What you talk about is splinter off and create a new party. Very different proposition. There are very few examples where a third party rose to power at all, much less in 9 or fewer years.

Still, you haven't addressed the facts: the Democratic party already supports the positions you so ardently cry for.

 

[ttystikk]

"I don't think" ≠ fact

The Tea Party didn't splinter off from the Republican Party. They changed it. Meanwhile, as you say, they grew representation for wealthy 1% Republicans and were rewarded for that with their unlimited PAC donations. It was a win-win for them.

So, then, if you want a new Democratic Party, change it. What you talk about is splinter off and create a new party. Very different proposition. There are very few examples where a third party rose to power at all, much less in 9 or fewer years.

Still, you haven't addressed the facts: the Democratic party already supports the positions you so ardently cry for.

Well, they pay lip service to them anyway.

If they can't put together credible candidates with a strong platform and aggressive campaigns then what difference will it make?

 

[SneekyNinja]

Well, they pay lip service to them anyway.

If they can't put together credible candidates with a strong platform and aggressive campaigns then what difference will it make?

You mean like destroying the "Justice" candidate by 12+% in the primaries?

Winning the national popular vote by 3% even though it is demonstrable true that many Democrats stayed home because "Hillary was gonna win anyway"?

 

[Fogdog]

Well, they pay lip service to them anyway.

If they can't put together credible candidates with a strong platform and aggressive campaigns then what difference will it make?

You keep making statements as if they are true. I have yet to see your defense of the assertion that Democrats don't support the repeal of Citizen's United ruling. I see your grandiose statements of belief but not anything meaningful and based upon verifiable fact.

The Democratic Party isn't "paying lip service" to their platform, they are defending what's left of it from the GOP. Do you need citations because you can't google?

The Young Turks are bought and paid for by the wealthy to keep Republicans in office longer. You tout their shit like it's word from God instead of Limbaugh.

 

[SneekyNinja]

You keep making statements as if they are true. I have yet to see your defense of the assertion that Democrats don't support the repeal of Citizen's United ruling. I see your grandiose statements of belief but not anything meaningful and based upon verifiable fact.

The Democratic Party isn't "paying lip service" to their platform, they are defending what's left of it from the GOP. Do you need citations because you can't google?

The Young Turks are bought and paid for by the wealthy to keep Republicans in office longer. You tout their shit like it's word from God instead of Limbaugh.

Im convinced at least 75% of the Bernie Babies here are Republican plants.

 

[ttystikk]

You keep making statements as if they are true. I have yet to see your defense of the assertion that Democrats don't support the repeal of Citizen's United ruling. I see your grandiose statements of belief but not anything meaningful and based upon verifiable fact.

The Democratic Party isn't "paying lip service" to their platform, they are defending what's left of it from the GOP. Do you need citations because you can't google?

The Young Turks are bought and paid for by the wealthy to keep Republicans in office longer. You tout their shit like it's word from God instead of Limbaugh.

I haven't heard messaging from the Democratic Party that inspires me to support them.

You keep touting one useless vote from years ago like it's The Word of God yourself.

Since then, Democratic politicians have walked that back.

That doesn't impress or convince me.

You want to see a liberal or even socialist platform that works? Look up Jeremy Corbyn, Labor leader in the UK. Yes his message was wildly different than the political mainstream but guess what? IT WORKED. I see no such resolve from American Democrats.

If the threat of a third party is what it takes, so be it.

 

[Fogdog]

Im convinced at least 75% of the Bernie Babies here are Republican plants.

Worse, they are listening to and following Republican propaganda but talk and act as if they are liberals. Modern day brand of Manchurian candidates.

 

[ttystikk]

Worse, they are listening to and following Republican propaganda but talk and act as if they are liberals. Modern day brand of Manchurian candidates.

You sure like to plaster a lot of labels on people you refuse to listen to or therefore understand.

Maybe you should do less telling us who we are and more listening. Honestly, we aren't that far apart.

 

[londonfog]

Legalized corruption is still corruption.

The Democratic party has failed to represent my interests.

Why is that so hard for you to accept?

Who represents your interest ?