Safest food grade diy ph down

Dumme

Dumme

Well-Known Member
applepoop1984 said:
So citric acid kills the fish
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Citric acid is an antimicrobial compound, so it kills the nitrifying bacteria. When doing so, ammonia and nitrite levels spike. Both ammonia and nitrite NO2 (not to be confused with nitrate NO3) are very poisonous to fish.

...so yes, citric acid will kill the fish.
 
applepoop1984

applepoop1984

Well-Known Member
Dumme said:
Citric acid is an antimicrobial compound, so it kills the nitrifying bacteria. When doing so, ammonia and nitrite levels spike. Both ammonia and nitrite NO2 (not to be confused with nitrate NO3) are very poisonous to fish.

...so yes, citric acid will kill the fish.
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It's funny you should say that last night I was watching an aquaponics video the guy had just transferred baby tilapia and use citric acid to pH Down only about a teaspoon at a time the pH was about 6.5 but the coloring on the ammonia sample was dark green I think he said it was 8 but he was able to save the fish
 
Dumme

Dumme

Well-Known Member
applepoop1984 said:
It's funny you should say that last night I was watching an aquaponics video the guy had just transferred baby tilapia and use citric acid to pH Down only about a teaspoon at a time the pH was about 6.5 but the coloring on the ammonia sample was dark green I think he said it was 8 but he was able to save the fish
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Ouch, yup, that sucks. Sounds like an expensive mistake he'll only do once.
 
H

Hahahatim

Member
CobKits said:
please circle back to the thread topic yourself- it was "safest" acid. sulfuric acid isnt even close, citric isnt anywhere near the same hazard class as sulfuric

just because you never had an issue doesnt make it "safe"

you are recommending a very strong acid to growers who have no idea what they are getting into.

safety is not about "fear" its about understanding the hazards and being save enough to avert the worst-case scenario that you never thought would happen like accidentally dropping the bottle etc. Everytime ive got burned by sulfuric it was that one time out of hundreds where it splashed when mixing. I could stick my hand in a bag of citric acid monohydrate powder and scoop it out if i washed my hand off reasonably promptly. i have scars years old from a single drop of sulfuric that i ran immediately to the sink to wash off. entirely different hazard class and you only need to consult the msds to verify this.

yes its widely used- in commercial agriculture where they are buying bulk and pennies matter

again ive got every acid under the sun at work and citric is my choice for home gardening, and phosphoric behind that
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I just squeeze a lemon and call it quits no risk for anybody. Water pH goes down.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
Dumme said:
Citric acid is an antimicrobial compound, so it kills the nitrifying bacteria. When doing so, ammonia and nitrite levels spike. Both ammonia and nitrite NO2 (not to be confused with nitrate NO3) are very poisonous to fish.

...so yes, citric acid will kill the fish.
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NO3 is also toxic, just less so.
 
H

Hahahatim

Member
CobKits said:
again citric!

i see it is an anti-microbial but only in high concentrations, and it appears to be at least 10X less powerful than bleach

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7995646

its more often used as a preservative (chelates free radicals)
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Definitely not strong enough to kill microherds outside the topsoil, can still here and see springtails. Definitely not the most effective way to lower soil pH very much but perfectly fine for keeping a balanced ph. Much rather use something I can eat than use a bottle of chemicals even if I know where the chemicals are derived from. We know lemon is not carcinogenic we know it won't burn our skin. It's a very gentle ph down. Honestly it's all use. If I need ph up I add some more high ph water to dilute the lemon to my liking.
 
applepoop1984

applepoop1984

Well-Known Member
Hahahatim said:
Definitely not strong enough to kill microherds outside the topsoil, can still here and see springtails. Definitely not the most effective way to lower soil pH very much but perfectly fine for keeping a balanced ph. Much rather use something I can eat than use a bottle of chemicals even if I know where the chemicals are derived from. We know lemon is not carcinogenic we know it won't burn our skin. It's a very gentle ph down. Honestly it's all use. If I need ph up I add some more high ph water to dilute the lemon to my liking.
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Phosphoric acid is in cola and other foods, citric acid is in lemons at a lower concentration. But whatever works for you
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
re:CO2 ive started using the distilled water out of my dehuey (quest giving me 5 gal a day) - i need to mix it with my tap water as if i use pure distilled its too acidic.

why would distilled water not be 7.0 you ask? its so pure that atmospheric CO2 (of which i have plenty :bigjoint:) is highly soluble in it, and there are no alkaline ions to buffer it so CO2 absorbs into it and forms carbonic acid. pH drops into the 5s. My tap/well water (on the harder side) is 7.5-8 pH, Jacks is pretty pH buffered and is 6.0-6.2 with tap water, but closer to 5.0 with the distilled water.

I'm not sure if people making RO water are ending up with acidic water as well. My guess is it may not get as acidic since water passing through an RO filter isnt as exposed to air as water dripping off of a condenser which generally has good airflow over it.

perhaps if someone has an RO filter it would be a good experiment to make a bucket of RO water, measure pH and then let it sit in a place with good airflow (ideally a CO2 enriched environment) and measure it again in a day or two.

so again the safest chemicals are no chemicals :hump:
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
The CO2 in distilled water won't make a difference once you add the nutrients.

Edit: I should clarify that you still might need to raise pH, just that it wouldn't have made a difference had it not absorbed CO2 first.
 
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Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
CobKits said:
re:CO2 ive started using the distilled water out of my dehuey (quest giving me 5 gal a day) - i need to mix it with my tap water as if i use pure distilled its too acidic.

why would distilled water not be 7.0 you ask? its so pure that atmospheric CO2 (of which i have plenty :bigjoint:) is highly soluble in it, and there are no alkaline ions to buffer it so CO2 absorbs into it and forms carbonic acid. pH drops into the 5s. My tap/well water (on the harder side) is 7.5-8 pH, Jacks is pretty pH buffered and is 6.0-6.2 with tap water, but closer to 5.0 with the distilled water.

I'm not sure if people making RO water are ending up with acidic water as well. My guess is it may not get as acidic since water passing through an RO filter isnt as exposed to air as water dripping off of a condenser which generally has good airflow over it.

perhaps if someone has an RO filter it would be a good experiment to make a bucket of RO water, measure pH and then let it sit in a place with good airflow (ideally a CO2 enriched environment) and measure it again in a day or two.

so again the safest chemicals are no chemicals :hump:
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No chemicals?

We should all use organic solids in hydroponics?

Sulfur is needed by the plants, FYI.

If you don't like this method do not troll my thread.

Simply, kick rocks.

:leaf:
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
Enigma said:
No chemicals?

We should all use organic solids in hydroponics?

Sulfur is needed by the plants, FYI.

If you don't like this method do not troll my thread.

Simply, kick rocks.

:leaf:
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Urea is an organic solid included in many hydroponic nutrients.

Sulfur is included in the formulation of hydroponic nutrients, FYI.

No one is trolling your "method". It's not really YOUR method.

Concentrated H2SO4 is inherently more dangerous than, for example 85% concentrated food grade phosphoric acid. Remember that concentration has nothing to do with how good an acid is at giving up a proton to something.

Concentrated "food grade, fcc" H2SO4 is more expensive than food grade phosphoric acid.

The shit you buy at the auto-parts store and then try to tell everyone is super great contains impurities.
 
Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
It is only 33% or so, no problems to report yet.

If you don't like the method don't troll, kick rocks.
 
dstroy

dstroy

Well-Known Member
troll2
trōl/
verb
gerund or present participle: trolling
  1. 1.
    informal
    make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.
    "if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you"

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we have what is known as a disagreement. I'm not trolling you, just because I'm writing things you don't agree with.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
If your plants are healthy and have the right nutrients, the roots may be 3 pH points lower than the surrounding soil.
 
Enigma

Enigma

Well-Known Member
dstroy said:
troll2
trōl/
verb
gerund or present participle: trolling
  1. 1.
    informal
    make a deliberately offensive or provocative online post with the aim of upsetting someone or eliciting an angry response from them.
    "if people are obviously trolling then I'll delete your posts and do my best to ban you"

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we have what is known as a disagreement. I'm not trolling you, just because I'm writing things you don't agree with.
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You don't use H2SO4, good for you.

If you say it can't be done then don't interrupt the man doing it.

No reason to troll just because you don't agree.

:leaf:
 
Johnei

Johnei

Well-Known Member
Apple Cider Vinegar in organic growing.
Regular white Vinegar for hydro.

Baking soda for pH up or potassium silicate mixture.
 
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