Get rid of your air pump and make a waterfall with existing waterpump (6 site bucket)

[Dreddd]

It's not even the bubbles that do the aeration, it's just the water movement mixing it around so it all gets to the surface at some point. You could probably just as well have a mixer of some sort in there with no bubbles at all, like a small water pump,

I see now why my no air stone experiment worked so well, coming up on 3 months for this DWC beefstake tomato and the roots are still nice and white with just a tiny pump at the bottom of the bucket that turns on for 15 min every two hours.

 

[PetFlora]

Pots of medium is so much simpler. I guess you probably get higher yields with DWC but how would you ever withhold water near the end to increase dry weight and resin? They're sitting right in water all the time. Might as well grow in a swamp.

I moved away from HPA due to high heat in my grow room most of the year. I took lessons I learned for my F & D, but I start plants in dwc (shallow actually). It seems I wind up with a couple plants in dwc and they grow and harvest just as good, they're just more of a PITA to dump and clean the rez in prep for fresh nutes.

The air pumps I use are for aquariums, not too noisy, but I wouldn't want them in the same room

 

[J Henry]

While investigating what air stone is made of, I found an interesting tidbit;

"Oxygen in the air actually takes a long time (typically 90 seconds for an average sized bubble) to dissolve into the water via an airstone. It is the action of rising bubbles which causes water movement from the bottom of the aquarium, where oxygen levels will be lower, to the surface where the oxygen from the air can diffuse. The bubbling water surface actually has a larger surface area so allowing more oxygen to diffuse over time." https://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Airstone

It's not even the bubbles that do the aeration, it's just the water movement mixing it around so it all gets to the surface at some point. You could probably just as well have a mixer of some sort in there with no bubbles at all, like a small water pump, though apparently the bubbles do increase surface area, but by how much? Probably not a huge amount. And by pumping air through the res like that you're also pumping in whatever is in that air and the heat, as the OP mentioned. Plus those air stone air pumps are noisy as hell. They're like miniature jackhammers. Drive ya nuts.

You’re right, those air stones you posted are seriously limited, have many problems, but they are disposable and they are very cheap throw-a-ways every time they fail which is usually predictable.

Your web site reference says - *Aeration will increase or raise the pH of the water slightly due to the release of CO2 from the water. This can lead to more free ammonia in the aquarium. QUESTIONS: Have you ever actually tested the CO2 and ammonia in your DWC res water to see if this is actually true? If this is true, where do you think the CO2 and ammonia come from in the res water and is CO2 and ammonia really an issue or concern in DWC res water at all?

This stone appears to work very differently than the air stone you posted - http://pentairaes.com/point-four-micro-bubble-diffusers-mbd.html Bubble size 100 - 500 microns, superior to air stone, bubbles hoses and rocks, minimal bubble coalescence achieves absorption rates in excess of 80%, depending on depth and gas flow rate. This has nothing like the air stone reference you posted - https://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Airstone

Check it out, what do you think?

 

[PetFlora]

^^ wow those aren't cheap! 3.25" wide for $156.49??????????????????????????????

A small gph pump (to floom the water) + a deep cycle timer is ~ $80. I run mine 3 minutes on/15 minute pause 24/7

 

[Dreddd]

What about electrolysis to separate the water to oxygen and hydrogen? found this device but its expensive..
http://www.o2grow.com/technology

There are some videos of it oprating on youtube if you search o2grow, but they're all from the company and i haven't seen any actual grow with it.. still interesting though...

 

[BobCajun]

Anybody ever hear of the Ein Gedi hydroponic system? It's pretty old. You have a shallow layer of medium on top, then below that you have a container about half full of nute solution. The roots get all their air requirements from the open part, while their lower roots get water and nutes from the bottom part. No aeration required, works as well or better than DWC. Probably need an auto top up system to maintain the solution level.

 

[J Henry]

^^ wow those aren't cheap! 3.25" wide for $156.49??????????????????????????????

A small gph pump (to floom the water) + a deep cycle timer is ~ $80. I run mine 3 minutes on/15 minute pause 24/7

Cheap is relative,

If a little bubbles aquarium air pump works great for you and does the job you want done, stay with them.

I like the Thomas WOB-L® piston pump – high performance and durability. WOB-L piston pumps work to reduce a volume by a fixed crank-driven piston within a cylinder. https://www.gd-thomas.com/en/technologies/wob-l-piston

 

[HerbalRelief]

Cheap is relative,

Well like my original post in the beginning of this thread, your existing water pump can just be split with a T fitting and used to create water falls in each bucket for basically free. Cost me 30$ to do 12 buckets.

 

[J Henry]

What about electrolysis to separate the water to oxygen and hydrogen? found this device but its expensive..
http://www.o2grow.com/technology

There are some videos of it oprating on youtube if you search o2grow, but they're all from the company and i haven't seen any actual grow with it.. still interesting though...

Product literature claims...

• Deliver 50% more dissolved oxygen thanair stones

• Do not warm water like bubblers

• Use no moving parts or motors to wear out

• Use less power...1 AMP per hour

• Protect from root disease

• Improve nutrient uptake

• Activate microbes

• Essential for compost tea brewing

What more could any DWC pot grower ask for?
It makes 50% more oxygen than what? AIR?
Did you know that hydrogen is very explosive and that 2/3's of the bubbles this device produces is pure 100% hydrogen?

$200 for a 10 gallon set up and this rig makes no noise... that alone justifies the $200 for any growers that have problems with noise.

 

[Dreddd]

Product literature claims...

• Deliver 50% more dissolved oxygen thanair stones

• Do not warm water like bubblers

• Use no moving parts or motors to wear out

• Use less power...1 AMP per hour

• Protect from root disease

• Improve nutrient uptake

• Activate microbes

• Essential for compost tea brewing

What more could any DWC pot grower ask for?
It makes 50% more oxygen than what? AIR?
Did you know that hydrogen is very explosive and that 2/3's of the bubbles this device produces is pure 100% hydrogen?

$200 for a 10 gallon set up and this rig makes no noise... that alone justifies the $200 for any growers that have problems with noise.

yeah i'm aware hydrogen is explosive, that part bothered me also... but the claim is that is dissolves 50% MORE oxygen into the water then an air stone is capable of, what i'm worried about is how there are ANY examples of this being used anywhere...

 

[J Henry]

yeah i'm aware hydrogen is explosive, that part bothered me also... but the claim is that is dissolves 50% MORE oxygen into the water then an air stone is capable of, what i'm worried about is how there are ANY examples of this being used anywhere...

So that's only a total of 31.5% oxygen + 100% hydrogen bubbling in your res water... probably avoid any live electricity or smoking there.. For only $200 you can have 31.5% O2 which is better than only 21% O2 in air if and when you have root rot problems or growing microbes in brew.
Why don't you contact the manufacture and ask for some references, pot growers who currently use this product... get the info direct.
Oxygen Research Group
19285 Highway 7
Excelsior, Minnesota 55331
Phone: 952-373-0424
Pure O2 does not explode, pure hydrogen can explode.

 

[Atomizer]

I like the Thomas WOB-L® piston pump – high performance and durability. WOB-L piston pumps work to reduce a volume by a fixed crank-driven piston within a cylinder. https://www.gd-thomas.com/en/technologies/wob-l-piston

Those are quite puny in terms of flow and pressure (not that you need much pressure run airstones). No noise level given in the specs, so its safe to assume they are pretty loud.

 

[J Henry]

Those are quite puny in terms of flow and pressure (not that you need much pressure run airstones). No noise level given in the specs, so its safe to assume they are pretty loud.

Noise is a problem for some people, this is perfectly quiet - http://www.o2grow.com/technology and may be the better choice for you if noise is an issue for you. Air pumps are all relatively loud, especially the cheap ones.
How much air do you really need? A little, a lot, a whole lot?

 

[Metasynth]

Does anyone want to buy a commercial grade air pump?

lol. No, seriously...I have an extra one.

How much and what's the L/ph or g/ph output?

 

[Atomizer]

Noise is a problem for some people, this is perfectly quiet - http://www.o2grow.com/technology and may be the better choice for you if noise is an issue for you. Air pumps are all relatively loud, especially the cheap ones.
How much air do you really need? A little, a lot, a whole lot?

I find 3.5cfm is more than enough for my needs. The cheapest o2grow model is double what the compressor cost me. Noise isnt an issue cos its nice and quiet

 

[J Henry]

I find 3.5cfm is more than enough for my needs. The cheapest o2grow model is double what the compressor cost me. Noise isnt an issue cos its nice and quiet

For only 8 bucks, a back-up D/C air pump might save a crop or a plant and Bennies during an electrical outage - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Bubble-Box-1.5V-Air-Pump/16326903 Works great for 20 gallon aquariums. Just an idea that sure beats nothing in a power outage.

About bubbles, specifically nano-bubbles:

Bubble Stability & Longevity

Based on the Young–Laplace equation, bubbles grow or shrink by diffusion based on whether the surrounding solution is over or under-saturated with gas relative to the cavities pressure. Since the solubility of gas is proportional to the gas pressure and this pressure is exerted by the surface tension in inverse proportion to the diameter of the bubble, the normal tendency is for bubbles to shrink in size and dissolve in a few microseconds. However, nanobubbles are observed in water for days.

The stability of nanobubbles is not well understood but is thought to be a balance of the van der Waal’s force of attraction and the electric double-layer force of repulsion between neighboring nanobubbles, with additional contributions from the virtual disappearance of buoyant force, bridging nanobubbles, entropic restriction, and fluid structuring.

The longevity factor of nanobubbles in water increases residence time of oxygen in the water and in doing so, directly impacts any type of aerobic or anaerobic interaction with viruses and bacteria.

Of course there are many different devices that make nanobubbles other than nanos created by the electrolysis of water. They stay in the water column a long, long time compared to giant air stone bubbles. They cannot escape res water surface and pop. They are very impressive if conservation of dissolved O2 in res water is important to you. If not, the $2.00 blue air stones will make plenty big bubbles.

 

[rkymtnman]

damn Biff Loman aka Ms Henry, you still trying to sell this crap? fail.

your company paid off High Times for an article and they still aren't selling? fail.

no pictures of a side by side with your nano bubbles? fail.

just so everybody else knows, J Henry works for O2Grow.

 

[J Henry]

Found more gas bubble technology that’s interesting if your really fed up with bubble rocks and waterfalls, this is for the scientific techy-minded hydro-growers…

Dig This: OxyDoser™, because airstones are child’s play http://www.oxydoser.com/
and
OxyDoser™ PUREair - Nano Bubble Generator in high pressure mode

They say that this new bubble technology is a revolutionary New Device in bubble world, used to saturate Hydroponic Fluid (That’s 100% Saturation). Hydroponic fluid is like res water in DWC pot grows and hydroponic Better Boy tomato grows.

Just love that GOOGLE Search Engine.

 

[J Henry]

Insuring minimal safe DO Saturation continuously 24/7 for several months to harvest in any hydroponic grow whether tomatoes, lettuce, pot, opium poppies or beneficial microbes is absolutely vital, plenty elemental O2 is the most important elemental supplement. Period. So how much is actually necessary... 100% - 105% DO Saturation is the magic number. Look at any DO Chart. Testing DO Sat. and a DO Meter is often totally beyond the concept or reach for the average hobby grower although a DO Test Kit cost $20.00 or so. Guessing and hoping the DO in the res water is safe is by far most popular because that's FREE and free is popular!

The "hydroponic experts" claim that "low oxygenation" or failing to provide and insure minimal safe oxygenation continuously does have consequences… roots and microbes get sick, suffocate, die and decay inviting massive fungal colonization that come and eat the dead roots and dead microbes that have suffocated for lack of oxygen. Fungi can smell sick, decaying roots like buzzards smell road kill. That’s a no-brainer.

On the up side, most growers claim they never and never have fungal problems, never need homemade brews or fungicidal chemicals, but for the less savvy growers that do have fungal infestations and resort to crisis intervention… they do seek all kind of special brews, cures and all kinds of chemical concoctions to fight and kill the fungal infestations. Some even use H2O2 in a last ditch effort to provide a few minutes of emergency O2 gas for a few minutes relief as the hydrogen breaks down upon contact with protein in res water. The H2O2 application also kills the few remaining beneficial microbes in the res water too,

A Eureka moment now - The primary reason that the O2Grow does not/did not sell well is because some very bright grower actually tested the DO with a DO meter in 65F – 70F res water and found the little oxygenation device did not run very much in chilled water. The DO Saturation was no different than the oxygenating capability with plain old ambient air, pumped with an air compressor through bubble rocks or diffusing into falling water or blowing air bubbles with a tire pump.

Then a real bright grower actually read and understood the O2Grow technical literature and discovered that the device cycles on-off by water temperature… the colder the water the less the electrolysis machine is running electrolyzing water and fractionating O2 and H2. The machine does not sample and measure the DO in the water like a DO Meter. The machine senses water temperature only, the warmer the water.

The device does produce pure 100% oxygen by electrolysis of water, but it simply does not produce enough oxygen to make any difference with chilled water, now you know why the little oxygenator failed to sell well, a major technical problem. There are other technical problems too.

No, I am not affiliated with the O2Grow company and have never been, but I have read their sales literature, technical data and I do understand the pro’s and con’s of their technology. I know why it does not work well in chilled DWC res water. The bullet point of the Grow's promotional literature is, “O2Grow produces 100% pure O2 gas” and “100% hydrogen gas,” that is absolutely true. If the res water contains any sodium chloride, “100% Chlorine gas” will be produces too.

The device simply does not produce enough 100% O2 to insure 100% DO Saturation 24/7 for months, that the problem and that’s exactly the same problem using ambient air. I have tested the DO with a DO Meter.

There are many technologies that will absolutely insure long term continuous minimal safe oxygenation (100% -105% DO Saturation), Nano bubble generators are worth researching.

Have a fine Easter tomorrow and please tell you kids the real story of why we Christians celebrate Easter before it's lost forever... if Jesus had not been executed... kids would have no Easter Bunny nor hunting colored chicken eggs in the yard tomorrow.

 

[Atomizer]

The bullet point of the Grow's promotional literature is, “O2Grow produces 100% pure O2 gas” and “100% hydrogen gas,” that is absolutely true. If the res water contains any sodium chloride, “100% Chlorine gas” will be produces too.
.

You only gave half an answer, the electrolysis of sodium chloride doesnt produce just chlorine gas. If the solution is hot, it`ll also produce sodium chlorate (great weed killer) and if its cold, it`ll produce sodium hypochlorite (bleach) instead. The o2grow advertising doesnt mention what happens to Cu for some reason.