Make Liberalism Great Again

[UncleBuck]

No, read it again. Twice if you have to. I told him that by branding people as racists because they don't share his same level of outrage, he is alienating people.

so he is alienating people by being more outraged by racism since it affects him personally?

 

[londonfog]

No, read it again. Twice if you have to. I told him that by branding people as racists because they don't share his same level of outrage, he is alienating people.

I brand people racist who support racism

 

[Fogdog]

Why the fuck would I want to let the Chump dictate MY message?!

How about economic inequality?
How about shipping jobs overseas for tax breaks?
How about campaign finance reform?
How about universal health care?
THESE issues resonate with everyone making less than $100k/yr, left or right. In other words, they're coalition building issues.

Why are you trying to tell me I have to answer the Chump's rhetoric? Let him yap, it will wear thin soon enough.

I haven't said shit to you. You are hearing things, boy.

There are a whole lot of people making less than 40k/year who for some reason worry more about illegal immigrants that are not actually coming over in yuuuuge numbers and taking their jobs than anything you list. I think there is a lot of work to do to counter the right wing propaganda machine.

 

[londonfog]

You are stiff as a wooden dowel over Trump, admit it. You've gone over to him like a teenager over his first sweetheart.

Trump loves the poorly educated and they love him back.

 

[NLXSK1]

You are stiff as a wooden dowel over Trump, admit it. You've gone over to him like a teenager over his first sweetheart.

I have said since June when he announced he was running that I didnt think he would make a great president because it is all about Trump. It still is. He is putting some anti-pot people into place and other things that could make life difficult. That being said, I am going to give him a chance before freaking out about what he might do.

You mock the poorly educated, where has that gotten you?

 

[Sir Napsalot]

Except he doesn't actually love the uneducated

Unless you're talking about 13 year-old girls

 

[st0wandgrow]

so he is alienating people by being more outraged by racism since it affects him personally?

Once again, no. You're choosing to be obtuse so that this fits your narrative.

He (and you) alienate people by BRANDING THEM as "racists" when they don't share your same level of outrage over something that he/you perceive as racist. It's your default position. Someone makes a comment, you scream racism, and if someone else doesn't see it as racist and join in on humiliating and mocking that person, they are branded as racist too.

 

[UncleBuck]

Once again, no. You're choosing to be obtuse so that this fits your narrative.

He (and you) alienate people by BRANDING THEM as "racists" when they don't share your same level of outrage over something that he/you perceive as racist. It's your default position. Someone makes a comment, you scream racism, and if someone else doesn't see it as racist and join in on humiliating and mocking that person, they are branded as racist too.

i don't see what's so wrong with mocking and alienating racists though. i don't want them in my party.

 

[ttystikk]

I haven't said shit to you. You are hearing things, boy.

There are a whole lot of people making less than 40k/year who for some reason worry more about illegal immigrants that are not actually coming over in yuuuuge numbers and taking their jobs than anything you list. I think there is a lot of work to do to counter the right wing propaganda machine.

'You', generalized. There's no English term for it.

Otherwise, agreed. Yet some way to reach these people and connect with their world must be found. If the Chump can do it...

 

[ttystikk]

i don't see what's so wrong with mocking and alienating racists though. i don't want them in my party.

When it's your only trick, people get tired of the pony. No one is asking you to like them, but to get things done you need a coalition.

Denounce the racism, sure. THEN MOVE ON. There are other plenty worthy messages to send, many of them inclusive. Peer pressure made them racist- it's a learned attitude, not instinctive- and positive peer pressure can sway them in the other direction.

 

[UncleBuck]

'You', generalized. There's no English term for it.

Otherwise, agreed. Yet some way to reach these people and connect with their world must be found. If the Chump can do it...

i just went through the county by county numbers for wisconsin and pennsylvania.

trump's coalition is whites clustered together in homogenous rural counties with no college education, and therefore low paying jobs.

i mean, i guess we could lie to them, like chump did, and tell them it's all the fault of brown people. but that's just not true.

our coalition will need to be a diverse one, and it need not include any of the racist, uneducated fucktards out in the sticks.

 

[ttystikk]

i just went through the county by county numbers for wisconsin and pennsylvania.

trump's coalition is whites clustered together in homogenous rural counties with no college education, and therefore low paying jobs.

i mean, i guess we could lie to them, like chump did, and tell them it's all the fault of brown people. but that's just not true.

our coalition will need to be a diverse one, and it need not include any of the racist, uneducated fucktards out in the sticks.

Swaying such votes does count double; one more for us and one less for them. The Chump proved that strategy is effective.

 

[ttystikk]

i just went through the county by county numbers for wisconsin and pennsylvania.

trump's coalition is whites clustered together in homogenous rural counties with no college education, and therefore low paying jobs.

i mean, i guess we could lie to them, like chump did, and tell them it's all the fault of brown people. but that's just not true.

our coalition will need to be a diverse one, and it need not include any of the racist, uneducated fucktards out in the sticks.

Wait a minute. Didn't you say most Chump voters were doing fine, median incomes of $60k plus or some such?

 

[UncleBuck]

Wait a minute. Didn't you say most Chump voters were doing fine, median incomes of $60k plus or some such?

that was based on his primary voters.

i ran the county by county numbers only to learn that the counties that swung the most to trump were the poorest, and the ones that swung to hillary were the most well off.

here is wisconsin for example:



now, that doesn't mean that trump didn't win some of the wealthier counties, he did.

but he didn't win them by as much as romney did. he ran up the numbers in the poorest, whitest, least educated areas. and it was just enough to tip the cities for once.

 

[ttystikk]

that was based on his primary voters.

i ran the county by county numbers only to learn that the counties that swung the most to trump were the poorest, and the ones that swung to hillary were the most well off.

here is wisconsin for example:

View attachment 3840061

now, that doesn't mean that trump didn't win some of the wealthier counties, he did.

but he didn't win them by as much as romney did. he ran up the numbers in the poorest, whitest, least educated areas. and it was just enough to tip the cities for once.

That's some purdy sexy data porn ya got there, bucky!

It squares nicely with my suspicions about the poorest being heavily skewed right.

The demographic trend is currently for more people to end up poor, due to widening income and wealth inequality. These two trends taken together spell the end of the democratic party's ability to count on the poor folk's vote. They might have to -gasp!- EARN IT from here on out!

 

[UncleBuck]

That's some purdy sexy data porn ya got there, bucky!

It squares nicely with my suspicions about the poorest being heavily skewed right.

The demographic trend is currently for more people to end up poor, due to widening income and wealth inequality. These two trends taken together spell the end of the democratic party's ability to count on the poor folk's vote. They might have to -gasp!- EARN IT from here on out!

not so quick there, sparky!

see that one dot that is way down and to the left from the rest?

that is milwaukee county, an extremely diverse area. the more diverse the area, the worse trumpler did.

and that one single dot is worth as much as all the others combined.

trumpler's strategy of racism only worked on poor, uneducated whites. he got them to blame the brown people for all their failures. his strategy did not work on wealthy whites, because they are not trying to blame their failures on others. and it does not work on minorities and diverse populations either, because brown people do not blame other brown people.

it is a narrow strategy that will fall apart the second he fails all those poor, dumb whites. it's not like he can really get much more racist.

 

[ttystikk]

not so quick there, sparky!

see that one dot that is way down and to the left from the rest?

that is milwaukee county, an extremely diverse area. the more diverse the area, the worse trumpler did.

and that one single dot is worth as much as all the others combined.

trumpler's strategy of racism only worked on poor, uneducated whites. he got them to blame the brown people for all their failures. his strategy did not work on wealthy whites, because they are not trying to blame their failures on others. and it does not work on minorities and diverse populations either, because brown people do not blame other brown people.

it is a narrow strategy that will fall apart the second he fails all those poor, dumb whites. it's not like he can really get much more racist.

These dots also conceal a lot of urban poor who voted for the Chump. Certainly not a majority, but every vote counts, one way or another.

There's a hole in your argument about Mrs Clinton getting more votes. Turnout rates were still low when compared to the total percentage of turnout by population. America is more populated than it was 4 and 8 years ago. So both stats could be true- and probably are in this case.

I don't like racism and I see very little in the way of positive social contributions made by racists. That said, if they'll vote for taxing the rich or universal health care, I welcome their participation.

 

[Unclebaldrick]

it's not like he can really get much more racist.

Oh yes he can. The question is merely "will he need to?" If he needs to, he will.

 

[Flaming Pie]

I don't believe that Hillary was wrong for calling Trump out for his racist and sexist remarks. Of course that needs to be done. In fact, I don't take issue with much of what Hillary said throughout the election. The problem was, it was Hillary saying it. When you have a candidate that gives speeches to wall st execs at $250k a pop, tells those same bankers that she believes one thing privately but tells the rest of us lemmings another thing publicly, and has a 30 year track record of being in bed with big business...do you think people are going to trust her? Do you think people are going to believe that she is going to go to bat for the working class? Do you think they're going to believe anything she says?

Say what you want about Trump, but he got one thing right: he knew that people were fed up with shady politicians, and he branded her based on that. "Crooked Hillary". He said it every chance he got. Nothing else mattered. Pussy grabbing, racism, sexism, lying, etc.

Sooooo...

Hillary can't be trusted?

 

[Flaming Pie]

When it's your only trick, people get tired of the pony. No one is asking you to like them, but to get things done you need a coalition.

Denounce the racism, sure. THEN MOVE ON. There are other plenty worthy messages to send, many of them inclusive. Peer pressure made them racist- it's a learned attitude, not instinctive- and positive peer pressure can sway them in the other direction.

Uhhh no. I am not racist and neither is trump.

Regardless of how you feel about ben carson, trump was pretty much the only one who spoke up for him at the debate where ted cruz tried to play innocent over screwing carson.

Do racists defend black men? What about the black trump supporters? You all are quick to brand any repub black person an uncle tom or race traitor.

You play character assassination because that is what your democrat leaders do.