Make Liberalism Great Again

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
You don't think that 25 years of propaganda against her and the FBI putting their thumb on the balance made any difference?
I remember people here promoting the idea that her 30 years of prior public experience was one of the reasons she won the Democratic primary. Now that she lost, it turns into "25 years of propaganda against her"...

The FBI cleared her before the election, she saw a jump up in the polls days before because of it

Prior to and during the election, she and her campaign skirted rules and laws, which became fodder for the propaganda machine. Her actions with the DNC made her look really bad, not unfairly so. You've said many times she neglected white middle class voters, I'd say she neglected working class voters of all kinds. So, yeah for reasons outside her control but also reasons completely within her control, she was a terrible candidate.
Agreed with everything but the bold
Why was the only alternative to her an unknown old white man?
I'm not sure I understand your question
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
I don't care if you do. I find that I can get another person completely enraged without resorting to name calling and so, I see no need for it. But if what you say is truth then go for it.

I don't think that directly calling Trump and many of his supporters -- racist -- is wrong or even name calling.

I also laugh out loud when I read that calling racists -- racist -- lost the election for Clinton or will prove to be fatal to Democrats chances going forward. Clinton proved to be a worse candidate than Trump in that she wasn't able to get enough people to support her in key states. She didn't learn the lesson from Bill's campaign that the first thing somebody should think about the candidate is that they are focused on jobs and economic well being. It was respectable that she didn't shy away from the subject of racism in the alt right unlike the things Trump said but it should have been the second or third thing somebody should think about, which is why "stronger together" was a stupid slogan. And so, what Buck says in RIU is irrelevant in the big picture.

Also whether Bernie could have done better is unknowable and not worth debating so far as I'm concerned.
Yeah here on RIU some are so stuck in what they say and believe it is no getting trough to them, so calling them a dumb arse ignorant POS is the best thing to do. Think Thickstemz and let me know if I'm right.
Bernie didn't really want to be POTUS. He wanted his message heard
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
In what way is that "the best thing to do"?
I will send this your way. You can have all the decent conversations you like.
I don't know what the gay community is thinking letting the trans community piggy back onto all of their gains.

While homosexuality is a minority sexual abnormality, it's a natural one and doesn't cause any real handicap.

Trans is a hard core mental illness. Anyone with a penis who thinks they're really a girl is screwed up in the head. The only exception to this could be those born hermaphordite and the medical staff alters their genetalia at birth. They could pick the wrong one.

But normal people who think their penis is a malformed vagina, that's some fucked up shit.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
That said, what about Trump's hateful speeches about Muslims and Hispanics? Hate crimes increased dramatically during the election cycle. If I'm right in believing that Trump's speeches contributed to this increase then what is the correct response to his repeating them? Is it wrong to point out that his words matter and that leaders have a special responsibility to mind what they say? Was it wrong for people to protest his speeches? Recognizing that those protests angered Trump's supporters I still think the protests were appropriate. What would you suggest?
I don't believe that Hillary was wrong for calling Trump out for his racist and sexist remarks. Of course that needs to be done. In fact, I don't take issue with much of what Hillary said throughout the election. The problem was, it was Hillary saying it. When you have a candidate that gives speeches to wall st execs at $250k a pop, tells those same bankers that she believes one thing privately but tells the rest of us lemmings another thing publicly, and has a 30 year track record of being in bed with big business...do you think people are going to trust her? Do you think people are going to believe that she is going to go to bat for the working class? Do you think they're going to believe anything she says?

Say what you want about Trump, but he got one thing right: he knew that people were fed up with shady politicians, and he branded her based on that. "Crooked Hillary". He said it every chance he got. Nothing else mattered. Pussy grabbing, racism, sexism, lying, etc.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
How should one respond to the hate speech by Donald Trump? Are you saying the R word should not be used in response when Trump most clearly used racially charged rhetoric in his speeches?
Why the fuck would I want to let the Chump dictate MY message?!

How about economic inequality?
How about shipping jobs overseas for tax breaks?
How about campaign finance reform?
How about universal health care?
THESE issues resonate with everyone making less than $100k/yr, left or right. In other words, they're coalition building issues.

Why are you trying to tell me I have to answer the Chump's rhetoric? Let him yap, it will wear thin soon enough.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
I know I know I should stop acting so uppity and just accept what is being said.
You don't have to accept it. You just have to realize that not everyone is going to have the same level of outrage as you over perceived racism, and by branding those people racists because they don't lose their shit over every single comment you're alienating people, and reinforcing the stereotype that liberals are a bunch of overly- sensitive, whiny babies.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
You don't have to accept it. You just have to realize that not everyone is going to have the same level of outrage as you over perceived racism, and by branding those people racists because they don't lose their shit over every single comment you're alienating people, and reinforcing the stereotype that liberals are a bunch of overly- sensitive, whiny babies.
good job on telling a black man to stop complaining about racism so much.

as a white man, that is not only your right, but your privilege.
 

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
good job on telling a black man to stop complaining about racism so much.

as a white man, that is not only your right, but your privilege.
Did you even read my post? I never told him to stop complaining about racism. I told him that not everyone is going to find something racist when he does, and just because they don't, that doesn't in turn make them "racist".

You're the worst offender when it comes to this. Everything, and everyone is racist to you. You can't go two posts without mentioning it. You're like the PC version of the Chatty Cathy doll, with some asshole pulling the string on your back over and over again.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I remember people here promoting the idea that her 30 years of prior public experience was one of the reasons she won the Democratic primary. Now that she lost, it turns into "25 years of propaganda against her"...
The 25 years of propaganda against her was just made up shit or stretched truth that never went anywhere. It was baggage going into the campaign. Her experience was based upon fact. I see no conflict in recognizing both.

The FBI cleared her before the election, she saw a jump up in the polls days before because of it
Not crying foul here but am recognizing that the FBI broke DOJ's own guidelines, first by commenting on an open investigation, second by taking an action that could influence an election. Did it shift the vote by a few percent? I don't know but it sure looks like it.

Agreed with everything but the bold
What I said:
"Her actions with the DNC made her look really bad, not unfairly so."

Bad writing on my part. The double negative. I'll restate:

"Her actions with the DNC made her look really bad, fairly so."

I'm not sure I understand your question
Why was the only alternative to her an unknown old white man?

Nobody else put up a serious challenge to Clinton. Of the six other challengers all but one dropped out. Can you name even one? A 69 year old woman and a 75 year old man were the only two candidates for all but Iowa. It seems that nobody had name recognition other than Clinton at the beginning and only Bernie managed to make any headway before the primaries started. Just seems that Clinton's political machine was too powerful in retrospect.
 
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