passmethelid
Well-Known Member
no matter the lawyer, the mmma law has stupid language in it.
do not trust MPP to write another law.
do not trust MPP to write another law.
MMMA lawyers not NORML affiliated?
- Thread starter TheMan13
- Start date
jorge-green
Active Member
I do not personally know what law school Komorn attended. I also do not know of any database that lists win lose records. I also would say that winning and losing comes in many different forms. (Example: a plea in some cases may be a win, but not in others) but I can list some examples of the successes as documented by independent news sources:
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2016/10/27/marijuana-evidence-destroyed-michigan/92867374/
http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/08/05/ginnifer-hency-vibrator-marijuana-seizure/31181051/
http://fox17online.com/2016/04/07/medical-marijuana-patients-reunited-with-son-after-lengthy-court-battles-unfounded-drug-charges/
http://www.theoaklandpress.com/general-news/20150827/state-official-rejects-medical-marijuana-use-for-severe-autism
(This last case is not a court case as much as a push for public policy change to include autism amongst conditions for which someone can be a patient. It was unsuccessful, but this is a prime example of fighting for patient rights.)
"Would synthetic marijuana even be a thing without losing People v Curruthers and in turn our MMMA rights just finally restored by our Congress?"
This is actually a misinformed question, as the issue of crime labs reporting non-marijuana substances as synthetic THC instead of plant based THC has been happening for years, and is actually a seperate issue. Even if edibles are allowed this testing could take a patient who has an edible out of there immunity by alleging that the brownie contains synthetic THC, which would result in any grow, flower or other marijuana activity all illegal as a result. Here is an article outlining the ongoing case. Very interesting and I would recommend keeping an eye on.
http://fox17online.com/2015/10/28/allegations-michigan-state-police-crime-labs-falsely-reporting-marijuana-creating-felonies-against-card-carrying-patients/
This is the definition of fighting against the system. THIS IS WHAT WE NEED MORE OF.
I appreciate your input on the subject and your desire to have more information, but please make sure to put forth due diligence into your writing. As you have stated there is already too much misinformation and false branding/marketing.
"Be the change you wish to see"
jorge-green
Active Member
Yes, exactly. Regardless of the attorney any action "within the MMMA" is grey at best, and the best you can do is try and protect yourself as much as possible. No guaranteed protection though, police and government own this system.
TheMan13
Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure my writing is exactly about how we (patients/caregivers) should perform due diligence in relation to how we consume these "legal services" and how the lack of transparency within our courts and among the officers of the court makes that literally impossible. Knowing a bit more about these market leaders records and business practices is all I'm asking for. Insinuating the contrary seems absurd to me ...
Criticism is as critical to learning as it is due diligence, is it not? What problems do you see with how these legal services are sold and paid for within our community?
"Regulatory capture is a form of government failure that occurs when a regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or political concerns of special interest groups that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating."
jorge-green
Active Member
Absolutely due diligence and Criticism are necessary for patients/caregivers, that is why I attached 4 cases and an explanation as to what the issue is with Synthetic THC. I hope that those shed a little light on the issue of records and business practices, obviously they are not complete but we can only work off of what we can gain from the available resources. I am glad to see your passion for justice, and I hope you keep fighting the good fight!
jorge-green
Active Member
Any issue that is simple enough to have to have an attorney give advice over the phone is probably doable by any competent marijuana attorney. Having said that Matt Abel is a competent Marijuana attorney. I believe he specializes more in the area of business now than criminal law.
One of the biggest issues in the justice system is the court appointed system. It's a crap shoot as to the quality and work ethic of your attorney. Because they don't get paid very well which affects motivation for some.
MMMA is the Michigan medical marihuana act(which is the law) and also the Michigan Medical Marijuana Association. (This is the organization that Komorn is president of).
Was that your question?
TheMan13
Well-Known Member
Those are stories I like to hear brother. Matt Abel is a Wayne State grad and has been practicing since 1985. The Michigan Bar considers 30+ years experience a "Master Lawyer". The dude definitely sticks out in the crowd of NORML attorneys.
Then again, Jorge-Green is correct in that most lawyers practicing "Marijuana Law" here today are more interested in the business angle than criminal defense.
pergamum362
Well-Known Member
I would have to agree. Call it job security in michigan i guess. Marijuanna probably will not be in prohibition ten to fifteen years from now, hopefully sooner..no need for a criminal law attorney specializing in marijuanna, if there are no marijuanna "criminals" anymore.
jorge-green
Active Member
We can only hope that Criminal Marijuana specializing attorneys aren't needed for long, hopefully Jeff Sessions leaves us alone. Although all the raids around Michigan recently that have DEA involvement are slightly concerning. Specifically in Grand Rapids where I believe there were 8.
TheMan13
Well-Known Member
http://fox17online.com/2016/11/29/kent-county-authorities-raid-marijuana-dispensaries/
2016 has been an epic year for the feds and their funded/staffed local task forces assaults on medical marijuana in this state and regardless of the repeated federal legislative acts aimed at addressing that exact problem. Remember all of the statewide raids back in March conducted with Homeland Security and Border Patrol staff/funds? Why chose Michigan?
Maybe it says something about the blissful ignorance of our flyover state as viewed from DC or the low hanging fruit status of the game within our states criminal justice system? Michigan has seen a 17% increase in marijuana possession arrests since MMMA/2008. Has that occurred anywhere else on this planet? How and why is that even possible?
I've wrote about many such raids here over the years that the rare victims were willing to go public. Give some of those a read and comeback with that hope sentiment ...
pergamum362
Well-Known Member
I personally dont think sessions will be an issue under the trump administration, but i am only basing that on trumps own statements regarding the issue coupled with the amount of states who now have active legislation on the books. While i dont see the administration lifting the federal ban, i dont see them buckling down on efforts to end the movement either.
jorge-green
Active Member
I definitely have concerns with Sessions on other issues, namely that he was rejected from a federal judgeship based on his questionable racial beliefs, but also for his direct issue he takes with marijuana, claiming it is bad. I certainly hope that Marijuana is too big to fail at this point, but I do have some concerns that there may be some federal push. But Sessions also was a very strong states rights/limit Feds involvement judge, so only time will tell which views hold up. We will definitely all be watching.
outsideinthecold
Active Member
Sessions as AG is a valid concern but has Lynch or Obama done medical or recreational MJ consumers any favors?
From a Democratic politician's perspective, why should they? Keeping MJ illegal is a win/win for Dems. They get votes from folks like those who run the MMMA and the majority of cannabis consumers, win number one. And they keep intact the big government bureaucracies that benefit from Prohibition like the DEA, SAMHSA and the Department of Health and Human Services. Win number two.
While Sessions and the Republicans are a valid concern, Trump is something alien to the American political landscape. Big risk? Yes. No doubt.
But he also listens to his kids and apparently is a dollar and cents guy.
The Democrats have taken us for granted. The Republicans need to be educated.
Big risk can lead to big rewards.
From a Democratic politician's perspective, why should they? Keeping MJ illegal is a win/win for Dems. They get votes from folks like those who run the MMMA and the majority of cannabis consumers, win number one. And they keep intact the big government bureaucracies that benefit from Prohibition like the DEA, SAMHSA and the Department of Health and Human Services. Win number two.
While Sessions and the Republicans are a valid concern, Trump is something alien to the American political landscape. Big risk? Yes. No doubt.
But he also listens to his kids and apparently is a dollar and cents guy.
The Democrats have taken us for granted. The Republicans need to be educated.
Big risk can lead to big rewards.
jorge-green
Active Member
Yes I completely agree. I hope his economic sense pays off and yes democrats have been little help. There was some good done by taking away some of dea ability to go after states, but no real change made.
We will hope for the best but be prepared for whatever comes!
We will hope for the best but be prepared for whatever comes!
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
mmmp=michigan medical marihuana program--thats what I belong to
mmma= michigan medical marihuana act-----thats what I voted for
mmma=michigan medical marijuana association- attorney owned website, non profit 501c club
mmma= michigan medical marihuana act-----thats what I voted for
mmma=michigan medical marijuana association- attorney owned website, non profit 501c club
TheMan13
Well-Known Member
I was referring to legal council working with/specializing in our state law/act:
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
I'm worried in MI, just as the courts love a win, so do MI attorney's of course. But the problem I have is they both consider a plea bargain a Win, for their side, not ours. (their side?)
I wonder how much trouble they cause us behind the scene in order to secure their continued employment. strange how the courts win at the same time the attorney does. I dont like it. everyone smiles while they tell you how lucky you were for hiring their firm to offer up the plea bargain to the courts for you.
and what about the dispensary owners that consulted these lawyers . They were given a GO by them, then a GO by city officials, then a PLEA BARGAIN by said attorneys. wtf, sounds like a well orchestrated deal/sham to me. shake shake wink wink in th ejustus system.
If I wanted to know about all the competent marijuana growers out there, the ones that continue year after year, so that I could locate and cease their activities all at once....I'd set up a registration program, make them card carrying members, and tell them its ok. just like the lawyers told dispensary owners?
do your job, if you dont, and you lose my case, then you dont get paid. work hard, to get paid, just the like the rest of us who lose their job when they wont/cant perform it. its a front imo. the justus system at play.
I wonder how much trouble they cause us behind the scene in order to secure their continued employment. strange how the courts win at the same time the attorney does. I dont like it. everyone smiles while they tell you how lucky you were for hiring their firm to offer up the plea bargain to the courts for you.
and what about the dispensary owners that consulted these lawyers . They were given a GO by them, then a GO by city officials, then a PLEA BARGAIN by said attorneys. wtf, sounds like a well orchestrated deal/sham to me. shake shake wink wink in th ejustus system.
If I wanted to know about all the competent marijuana growers out there, the ones that continue year after year, so that I could locate and cease their activities all at once....I'd set up a registration program, make them card carrying members, and tell them its ok. just like the lawyers told dispensary owners?
do your job, if you dont, and you lose my case, then you dont get paid. work hard, to get paid, just the like the rest of us who lose their job when they wont/cant perform it. its a front imo. the justus system at play.
TheMan13
Well-Known Member
The scariest part of the plea game is that there are no court records, right to appeal and/or transparency/accountability among the officers of the court (aka lawyers).
Then again on the rare instance a client can afford a trial following the NORML 5-10k plea game, those lost cases have cost every patient and caregiver their rights under MMMA as that case law has simply nullified any reasonable reading of MMMA in a court of law. In People v Brown we lost our 4th Amendment rights and in People v Curruthers lost our rights to extracts, the list goes on ...
No one has profited more from MMMA than these lawyers and they've taken no personal risk to boot. Something needs to change ASAP, especially with them moving on with their now codified (MMFLA) business clients.
Then again on the rare instance a client can afford a trial following the NORML 5-10k plea game, those lost cases have cost every patient and caregiver their rights under MMMA as that case law has simply nullified any reasonable reading of MMMA in a court of law. In People v Brown we lost our 4th Amendment rights and in People v Curruthers lost our rights to extracts, the list goes on ...
No one has profited more from MMMA than these lawyers and they've taken no personal risk to boot. Something needs to change ASAP, especially with them moving on with their now codified (MMFLA) business clients.