Help with LED's

[Magius13]

So I'm looking into growing with led lights in a grow tent for the first time ever. And I'm confused on why these prices and specs are so.... weird.

https://goo.gl/zYoTNB (Taotronics 24w led light bulb) - $19
So this light bulb.... seems like a decent thing. It is a super popular seller on Amazon, but why?

https://goo.gl/1TCrNX (Viparspectra 300w led panel) - $89
This panel has 8x the power (well... supposedly according to the wattage of the light bulb above, but only costs 4.5x more? Ok... so I need to have 8 light bulbs from above to match this?

https://goo.gl/c0h3LX (King plus 1200w led panel) - $186
Then there is this monster, supposedly 50x.... FIFTY TIMES more powerful than the light bulb and 4x more powerful than the panel, but only 10x more expensive than light bulb and 2x more expensive than the above panel. So... I'll need 50 of the light bulbs all clustered over a single plant to match this beast?! LOLwut?

What the shenanigans is going on? I'm reading through all the specs and whatnot, does anyone have any true information about these led light vendors? Googling brings up a lot of contradicting information (well... at least to me)

Any help appreciated, thanks!

Edit:
If I wanted to grow 4 plants, would 4x 32w LED light bulbs plus 2x 24w LED light bulbs be enough if positioned well? Trying to gauge $, limited budget, but I want to go for lower electricity over lifespan.

Edit2:
So many questions, sorry. What about 10x https://goo.gl/zYoTNB vs 2x https://goo.gl/1TCrNX for 4 plants?

 

[Dopaw13]

do you not want a COB led kit? http://timbergrowlights.com/200-watt-cree-cxb3590-square-framework/ but i know what you mean about limited budget

 

[Olive Drab Green]

If your budget is limited, you definitely shouldn't skip over COBs from the beginning. Your electric bill will strain your budget more than the upfront cost of COBs if you don't. Get the hard part out of the way and roll COBs from the get-go, for the sake of your electric bill.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Regarding your idea to use those useless 20-30w grow lights, scratch that off your list right now. They won't yield anything and you will only waste money.

The only viable option you have mentioned so far that I can vouch for working is the ViparSpectra. But if you can afford a 300w ViparSpectra, you can afford to spend just a little extra on COBs.

Go with Tasty, Northern Grow Lights, Growmau5, or Johnson. I personally have 3 Tasty T1 COB fixtures and am way more than happy. My plant had been pushing trichomes since it was a 3-day-old seedling.

 

[majins]

Id wouldnt bother with that old LED tech.
For 4 decent plants youd need 2X of the King plus 800W
But then whats your grow space, Maybe you only want 4 little plants.

Other wise look at putting together a decent led cob kits, About 400-500W real Watts.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Id wouldnt bother with that old LED tech.
For 4 decent plants youd need 2X of the King plus 800W
But then whats your grow space, Maybe you only want 4 little plants.

Other wise look at putting together a decent led cob kits, About 400-500W real Watts.

I get the PPFD of a 600w HPS using only 270w of COB, between 3 single-emitter fixtures (2x 89w, 1x92w). Not even bullshitting.

 

[Tryguy]

In theory and practice, other people have gained very good success with cheap chinese leds. For instance these models are really cheap and grow nice plants. Just take a lot of them and mix them with other types. Some ideas might be: this one or these leds. The first one screws directly into mains and the second one needs an adapter. To use the "efficiency theory" of half the power gets more efficiency you can parallel 2 cobs and connect them on one adapter. So they will work at 25 watts in case you order 50 watts models. However these cobs are condemned factory models (a single string does not light up equally or some minor budgetary flaws) but on a real low budget it is a cheap way of growing your ladies in winter time.

If you want to spend more money, like a few 100's, you should watch and build things like Growmau5 here.

Read about a cheap ass lamp test in the vegetative state here

However, if on a low budget you will need to be willing to experiment and fiddle around a bit. Good luck!

 

[Olive Drab Green]

In theory other people have gained very good success with cheap chinese leds. For instance these models are really cheap and grow nice plants. Just take a lot of them and mix them with other types. Some ideas might be: this one or these

If you want to spend more moeney like a few 100's, you should watch and build thing from Growmau5 here.

However, if on a low budget you will need to be willing to experiment and fiddle around a bit. Good luck!

If you're on a low budget, it would be best to go COBs. One upfront cost instead of a constant electric bill of larger proportions than that of COB.

I am actually one of those people who started out with Chinese LED panels. I used 2 ViparSpectra V450s (206w actual draw) but it only put out 420 PPFD. I got about 3 ounces between two plants after vegging only 3 weeks from seed,

That said, using a COB that uses only 92w to produce 932 PPFD (as opposed to the ViparSpectra V450's 420 PPFD using 206w) or 95% of the maximum intensity you need to grow a plant to full potential regarding where light is concerned, you can see why you should just skip the LED panels. You use less energy for a much larger turnaround.

If budget is an issue, bite the bullet and buy at least 1-2 COBs. Start with one, even. But it will be worth it. And if you sell, even if you only grow one plant with a single light, you can get the cost of the COB back and then some. Like, probably up to tenfold.

 

[Tryguy]

That's true. Your options are a few tens or a few hundreds. How much do you have to spend really?

 

[Olive Drab Green]

That's true. Your options are a few tens or a few hundreds. How much do you have to spend really?

You're going to have to clarify. That could be understood a few ways. Are you referring to electricity costs, or light unit costs?

 

[BM9AGS]

Id wouldnt bother with that old LED tech.
For 4 decent plants youd need 2X of the King plus 800W
But then whats your grow space, Maybe you only want 4 little plants.

Other wise look at putting together a decent led cob kits, About 400-500W real Watts.

King plus would be a serious waste of money.

 

[BM9AGS]

King plus 1200w. 210w of actual power to cover 3.5'x5.2'.

It would cover 1x2 maybe even 2x2. These companies will never have their feet held to the flame for false advertising so don't even give them a grain of salt

 

[Tryguy]

You're going to have to clarify. That could be understood a few ways. Are you referring to electricity costs, or light unit costs?

The TS has a pre-buying question so I mean light unit costs. Electricity is cheap so for a few private, self use grows it could be better to buy a cheap setup which is probably less efficient.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

@Tryguy Not to condescend, but you are looking at that completely backwards.

How do you consider LED panels a deal if you're paying more for energy for the rest of the life of the unit, AND that energy is wasted on a grow that falls far short of what the COB would have got you? Within one grow, you'll have put more money into less of a harvest result by buying the LED panel than you would have if you had put money into the COB and grown using that, not to mention the COB's harvest result is easily worth it and far superior in yield and, likely, quality by comparison.

So if anything, the "tens" are more what you're going to put into a COB grow and the "hundreds" is what you will waste on a Panel LED grow.

 

[Tryguy]

I already agreed that cobs are the cheapest over a long lifespan, however
technology goes faster then investment years of grow. So do not get cought into the idea that you 'invest' because within a year the 3590's are replaced by lower energy types for half the price.
The 3590 is an example of course, so the best answer to the TS is wait and see. Lol.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I already agreed that cobs are the cheapest over a long lifespan, however
technology goes faster then investment years of grow. So do not get cought into the idea that you 'invest' because within a year the 3590's are replaced by lower energy types for half the price.
The 3590 is an example of course, so the best answer to the TS is wait and see. Lol.

Like I said, you don't have the right approach at all. It's entirely an investment, and even if it wasn't, you can't just look at the upfront cost. You have to look at what that expense will provide for you as well as what the total expense is. LED panels, you're literally paying for a higher electric bill for an unsatisfactory end product, and the product is the whole point of getting the light. Focus on the product. Focusing solely on the upfront cost is what a child would do. This field isn't for children. You have to consider the whole of it. That's how it works.

Doesn't matter that they will produce a more efficient and more powerful emitter next year. You're still not paying over double the total cost for at best, a quarter of the product you'd grow with a COB. Again, 420 PPFD using 206w vs. 932 PPFD using 92w.

 

[Tryguy]

I fully agree with you, however the turnoverpoint lies far ahead of it. When you buy a setup that is 50 usd or you buy a setup that is 500 usd. You can burn 450 electricity. That is roughly (@1Kwh for 25 cts) 1800 hours. In vegetative + flowering that is 4 months continuous grow.

So if tyou are growing for own use that is more then enough?

And after a half year you buy a better setup for another 50 usd.

maybe that is how the market works, childish or not.

Btw did you read the test about the 3 usd lamp? You would be amazed.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Also, here's a chart that depicts how every 100 units of PPFD correlates to photosynthesis, in case anyone's curious:

 

[Olive Drab Green]

I fully agree with you, however the turnoverpoint lies far ahead of it. When you buy a setup that is 50 usd or you buy a setup that is 500 usd. You can burn 450 electricity. That is roughly (@1Kwh for 25 cts) 1800 hours. In vegetative + flowering that is 4 months continuous grow.

So if tyou are growing for own use that is more then enough?

And after a half year you buy a better sertup for another 50 usd.

And so on and so on.

What I have outlined of your quote is literally nonsensical. Not trying to be a dick, but whatever you tried to explain or measure did not really make sense. Whether you spend 50 or 500 you burn 450w?

We're not talking differing cost for either equal wattage or equal power. We're talking paying $200 for 932PPFD derived from 92w of energy vs. $80-150 for PPFD between 350-420 using 150-206w.

Between a ViparSpectra V450 that costs $150 and uses 206w for 420 PPFD and a Tasty T1-V196 that costs $205 and uses 92w to put out 932 PPFD, it would be incredibly stupid not to spend $50 more for something actually worth using.

I dunno why you keep thinking you have to upgrade your lights just because technology advances. As long as the shit you use isn't an inefficient tool that gives you less and costs you more in the long run, you don't need to upgrade once your grow setup is established.

 

[Olive Drab Green]

Like, sure, a couple ounces is enough for personal, but if you could have much more for less overall cost and less work and time wasted, why would you choose to yield less for more cost and more labor and time wasted?

By time, I mean the less PPFD you have, the slower your plant is going to grow, and the longer you have to use an inefficient light for a single grow.