Why Can’t the G.O.P. Get Real With Black Voters?

[ttystikk]

Those are also what people hold as their interests too.

Some of what you list deal with maintaining white privilege, others deal with religious principles and of course, gun rights. Right or wrong, these are beliefs and values held by Trump's right wing voters. Somehow, they also believe that Trump will lead the working classes back to prosperity. So, they are voting in their best interest. Or what they perceive as their interests.

As with @NLXSK1, his and their beliefs aren't justified by facts. To them, beliefs are facts. Their education or their parents failed to teach critical thinking. As Newt said when confronted with statistical proof that society is more safe today as opposed to what Trump is saying: "Liberals have a whole set of statistics which theoretically might be right but it's not where human beings are" (Newt)

And Colbert says: Reality has a liberal bias.

This isn't going to change after the election is over. If Trump loses, they will claim the election was rigged and nothing will alter this perception. The next right wing leader is going to build on Trump's methods and I think he's going to be worse.

The way forward here is to challenge their attempts to substitute beliefs for facts when doing so affects us.

We have every right to do so, since we have the right to deal with reality as it is. We do not have the right to impose our beliefs on them. Reminding them of that fact bolsters our refusal to allow them to.

 

[SneekyNinja]

It's not that hard:
1. "They're gonna take your guns!"
2. "Dem's are having abortions AND selling baby parts!"
3. "Gay marriage is turning our kids gay!"
4. "Black people just want free shit!"

Don't forget the classic "Democrats are the real racists because they encourage black women to have abortions".

Presenting the right wing...

 

[SneekyNinja]

Saying I want less regulation is not the same thing as saying I want no regulation.

The states can regulate drinking water just as easily as the Feds. And the Feds had as much to do with the Fuckup in Michigan as the state did so that is not proof that the federal government is working any more than when they let an assassin in under a marriage visa and her and her husband slaughtered a group of people in California.

We have now had 8 years of less than 3% GDP growth and the government grows by more than 2% every year budget wise. We are getting crushed between rising taxes and stagnant wages and it is jobs that would help the situation. Of course the government does not create jobs, it creates legislation, regulation and enforces compliance at the expense of growth.

The whole world economy is fucked.

But yeah, thanks Obama!!

 

[SneekyNinja]

No he's just a weird British instigator. Soemtimes amusing.

British people think this is bacon:

They're clearly an unreliable source.

 

[Fogdog]

The way forward here is to challenge their attempts to substitute beliefs for facts when doing so affects us.

We have every right to do so, since we have the right to deal with reality as it is. We do not have the right to impose our beliefs on them. Reminding them of that fact bolsters our refusal to allow them to.

Absolutely. Not only my right but for my sanity, I have to inject at least a comment about fact vs belief. As you say, not to impose a belief but to inject some reality into the discussion regarding beliefs.

 

[Fogdog]

Saying I want less regulation is not the same thing as saying I want no regulation.

The states can regulate drinking water just as easily as the Feds. And the Feds had as much to do with the Fuckup in Michigan as the state did so that is not proof that the federal government is working any more than when they let an assassin in under a marriage visa and her and her husband slaughtered a group of people in California.

We have now had 8 years of less than 3% GDP growth and the government grows by more than 2% every year budget wise. We are getting crushed between rising taxes and stagnant wages and it is jobs that would help the situation. Of course the government does not create jobs, it creates legislation, regulation and enforces compliance at the expense of growth.

You are missing connection here. Can you explain why high lead levels would be less harmful in one state vs another? And explain please why it would be a great idea if states were to compete for industries locating plants in their state by setting higher levels for lead?

As far as Michigan and that fuck up goes, every decision that led up to poisoned children were done at the state level. Then every action taken to discredit high lead readings were done at the state level. The only action that the EPA is guilty of is NOT swooping in earlier to take control of the situation.

That economic growth you quote? Has nothing to do with regulation. Oh and by the way, government policy and regulations are necessary for healthy economic growth.

Our back and forth started when you said that regulation slows progress. Republicans resemble their thin skinned man baby leader. They cry about regulations until something goes wrong, then they cry about lack of regulation. I guess this is just another day in the fact free world.

 

[ttystikk]

They cry about regulations until something goes wrong, then they cry about lack of regulation. I guess this is just another day in the fact free world.

Republicans in the Brave New Millennium.

 

[NLXSK1]

You are missing connection here. Can you explain why high lead levels would be less harmful in one state vs another? And explain please why it would be a great idea if states were to compete for industries locating plants in their state by setting higher levels for lead?

As far as Michigan and that fuck up goes, every decision that led up to poisoned children were done at the state level. Then every action taken to discredit high lead readings were done at the state level. The only action that the EPA is guilty of is NOT swooping in earlier to take control of the situation.

That economic growth you quote? Has nothing to do with regulation. Oh and by the way, government policy and regulations are necessary for healthy economic growth.

Our back and forth started when you said that regulation slows progress. Republicans resemble their thin skinned man baby leader. They cry about regulations until something goes wrong, then they cry about lack of regulation. I guess this is just another day in the fact free world.

You simply said the slow growth was not caused by regulation. What has the slow growth been caused by if not for Obamacare, legislation and a hostile business environment?

 

[UncleBuck]

You simply said the slow growth was not caused by regulation. What has the slow growth been caused by if not for Obamacare, legislation and a hostile business environment?

fox news.

 

[Fogdog]

You simply said the slow growth was not caused by regulation. What has the slow growth been caused by if not for Obamacare, legislation and a hostile business environment?

Not all I said. Go back and compose a complete post.

But you can't. So let's start with this: Can you explain why high lead levels would be less harmful in one state vs another? And explain please why it would be a great idea if states were to compete for industries locating plants in their state by setting higher levels for lead?

 

[Blunted 4 lyfe]

Saying I want less regulation is not the same thing as saying I want no regulation.

The states can regulate drinking water just as easily as the Feds. And the Feds had as much to do with the Fuckup in Michigan as the state did so that is not proof that the federal government is working any more than when they let an assassin in under a marriage visa and her and her husband slaughtered a group of people in California.

We have now had 8 years of less than 3% GDP growth and the government grows by more than 2% every year budget wise. We are getting crushed between rising taxes and stagnant wages and it is jobs that would help the situation. Of course the government does not create jobs, it creates legislation, regulation and enforces compliance at the expense of growth.

Are fucking kidding me, GDP is higher under Obama than W. There are more jobs created under Obama and W. was hemorrhaging jobs stop listening to FOX.
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/18/415212178/fact-check-could-jeb-bush

B4L

 

[Blunted 4 lyfe]

B4L

 

[Dr.Amber Trichome]

Are fucking kidding me, GDP is higher under Obama than W. There are more jobs created under Obama and W. was hemorrhaging jobs stop listening to FOX.
http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/18/415212178/fact-check-could-jeb-bush

B4L

yeah Grand Daddy Purple is higher under Obama. lol, i have this picture on my screensaver so when i come home from work, open the door look to the LEFT there he is smiling and tokin it up. He did a fantastic job for marijuana during his time in office.

 

[NLXSK1]

Not all I said. Go back and compose a complete post.

But you can't. So let's start with this: Can you explain why high lead levels would be less harmful in one state vs another? And explain please why it would be a great idea if states were to compete for industries locating plants in their state by setting higher levels for lead?

The lead wasnt the issue, it did not come from ground water or industrial contamination. It came from the actual pipes themselves when exposed to acidic water. The issue could have been resolved with a water additive but was not done that way for budgetary reasons.

 

[NLXSK1]

View attachment 3752205

B4L

GDP growth under Obama has never hit 3% and in the graph it is an average of 2%. Thank you for verifying my statement.

Under GW there were years with more than 3% growth. You decided to take the average of the numbers so you would have something correct to say but it has nothing to do with my statement.

 

[Blunted 4 lyfe]

GDP growth under Obama has never hit 3% and in the graph it is an average of 2%. Thank you for verifying my statement.

Under GW there were years with more than 3% growth. You decided to take the average of the numbers so you would have something correct to say but it has nothing to do with my statement.

Link, where W was at 3% gdp.

I said gdp was higher under Obama compared to W.

 

[Fogdog]

The lead wasnt the issue, it did not come from ground water or industrial contamination. It came from the actual pipes themselves when exposed to acidic water. The issue could have been resolved with a water additive but was not done that way for budgetary reasons.

You provided -- Facts. Good. And I don't mean that in any way other than a compliment. Yes. The lead contamination of Flint city water came from lead pipes of the city and was triggered by the high chlorine content of the water that was a necessary additive to counteract the nasty water quality coming from the Flint River.

Two years before the city of Flint Mich. was ordered to switch municipal water supply to the Flint river, recommendations from an engineering study specified the addition of phosphates to protect the pipes and avoid corrosion caused lead contamination of the water but a $100k or so investment was as you say not resolved for budgetary reasons. And so a completely predictable outcome occurred. That was bogus government act number one and if that was the end of the story it wouldn't be so incriminating to state government blundering. The worst was yet to come.

About 8 months after Flint started using water treated with corrosive chlorine and not adding a corrosion blocking agent, water tests and tests on blood samples taken from Flint toddlers in came in with very high levels of lead. After that, the government did all it could to cast doubt on the results. It was another eight or more weeks of kids exposure to high lead levels before the crisis came to a head and the state govt. recognized the problem.

Malicious intent can always circumvent the the system and regulations can't prevent that. Even worse is inept management. Ineptitude was the problem at the top of the state system. Dan Wyant, who ran Michigan's environment protection agency was a one man science denier but the facts could not be denied. Once regulators caught wind of what was happening, those regulations you decry prevented the state from continuing to poison people. In no way was the Federal government culpable. Nor was the City of Detroit. The only body that is culpable is the Republican run state government of Michigan and a few people who were in charge of the state DEQ..

 

[StevieBevie]

British people think this is bacon:

They're clearly an unreliable source.

What is it?

 

[UncleBuck]

What is it?

it's not child pornography, which you were arrested for. so you're probably not interested. since it isn't child pornography. which you were arrested for.

 

[ttystikk]

You provided -- Facts. Good. And I don't mean that in any way other than a compliment. Yes. The lead contamination of Flint city water came from lead pipes of the city and was triggered by the high chlorine content of the water that was a necessary additive to counteract the nasty water quality coming from the Flint River.

Two years before the city of Flint Mich. was ordered to switch municipal water supply to the Flint river, recommendations from an engineering study specified the addition of phosphates to protect the pipes and avoid corrosion caused lead contamination of the water but a $100k or so investment was as you say not resolved for budgetary reasons. And so a completely predictable outcome occurred. That was bogus government act number one and if that was the end of the story it wouldn't be so incriminating to state government blundering. The worst was yet to come.

About 8 months after Flint started using water treated with corrosive chlorine and not adding a corrosion blocking agent, water tests and tests on blood samples taken from Flint toddlers in came in with very high levels of lead. After that, the government did all it could to cast doubt on the results. It was another eight or more weeks of kids exposure to high lead levels before the crisis came to a head and the state govt. recognized the problem.

Malicious intent can always circumvent the the system and regulations can't prevent that. Even worse is inept management. Ineptitude was the problem at the top of the state system. Dan Wyant, who ran Michigan's environment protection agency was a one man science denier but the facts could not be denied. Once regulators caught wind of what was happening, those regulations you decry prevented the state from continuing to poison people. In no way was the Federal government culpable. Nor was the City of Detroit. The only body that is culpable is the Republican run state government of Michigan and a few people who were in charge of the state DEQ..

And I'd like to know why they haven't been indicted.