Holy OverFed Cannabis Batman! (Or: Watering is not the #1 Newbie Problem)

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Oh, my goodness.
See, this is the junk that needs to go away. This is PERFECTLY FINE for vegetables. Cannabis is not a vegetable.

Seriously. If cannabis was a selective feeder (because the organic web only supplies what's needed) then why does Sub-Cool's supersoil (a heavily amended organic mix) nearly kill young plants? Were cannabis a "Selective Feeder" you would be able to give it MASSIVE amendments and, wow, it would grow just fine. The term 'overfed' would not apply. Ever.

Cannabis does not selectively grab nutrients from the soil. There would be no reason to have soil mixes that 'work better' than others and the organic section of grow forums would be drop dead simple.

You can use 3 buckets of organic soil, all amended with different strengths and grow awesome cucumbers in all 3 pots. The cannabis will be the best out of the least amended pot, which still provided full nutrition.

End of Story. Using refined mineral nutrients shows the exact same effects, only quicker.

Don't believe me? Do it Yourself.

Douglas
I can provide pics of plants started from seed in hot soil that were dark green at the end. They didn't burn when young.

Seriously, I'm waiting for some pics. I need to see what good and bad green is. Not just random pics but some pics of the same strain.
 

Douglas.Curtis

Well-Known Member
I'm a notorious low nutrient feeder (400-500ppm max.) but I still have strains that that tend to have darker leaves than others. Just as an example I have Cherry Pie crosses that have high anthocyanin levels that produce dark waxy leaves whether I feed them at 200ppm or 500ppm.
Nice to see another low feeder in the bunch. :)
Those plants make me wonder if they'd do well with lower nitrogen? Makes me wonder if they're just really good at producing chlorophyll.
I agree with you're philosophy on nutrient strengths, but each phenotype of a plant has different genetic make-up from the next with different levels of pigments besides chlorophyll that influences coloring.
Just the green color seems to be the most indicative.
Once I know the best feed level for max growth, for a particular strain, that's when I pay attention to what color the leaves are. Leaf color is secondary to production rates.
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Howdy Newbies,

You Rock! Seriously, I can teach a new grower how to grow superior quality cannabis, much easier than a grower who has even a single year of experience. You have an empty cup. :)

Learn to Read Your Plants
Organic, Hydro, Soil, Soilless, Cannabis is the same. One of the main indicators of quality being destroyed in cannabis happens to be the presence of a dark green color in your leaves. When you first begin experimenting with feeding cannabis, you'll notice growth rate changes at different feed levels. See, cannabis does not selectively uptake nutrients and will overfeed when conditions are right for it.

When you feed too lightly (assuming a balanced nutrient, proper pH swing and high transpiration environment. Look them up.) the leaves are a pale green and lower leaves brown, wither and die. Growth is slow and unhealthy.

When you feed the correct level of nutrients, the leaves are a medium green and growth rates are at maximum.

When excessive nutrient levels are available, the leaves are dark green and growth rates begin to slow. The more overfeeding, the darker the plant and the slower the growth rate becomes. Having to deal with excessive nutrient also makes for lower production of terpenes and cannabinoids, the compounds we really want.

I've spent 8 years researching superior quality cannabis and have yet to see more than 'decent' quality come from plants with dark green leaves. There's a fine line between clean cannabis and overfed cannabis, so watch those growth rates as you increase the nutrient levels.

Be Kind to Your Cannabis!
Keep your transpiration high, your nutrient levels low, your water and your air clean. You'll be so happy you did. :)

Douglas
Please provide pictures of the difference of light, medium and dark green.

Also provide pics to distinguish between nutrient dark green and strain dark green.
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
Oh, my goodness.
See, this is the junk that needs to go away. This is PERFECTLY FINE for vegetables. Cannabis is not a vegetable.

Seriously. If cannabis was a selective feeder (because the organic web only supplies what's needed) then why does Sub-Cool's supersoil (a heavily amended organic mix) nearly kill young plants? Were cannabis a "Selective Feeder" you would be able to give it MASSIVE amendments and, wow, it would grow just fine. The term 'overfed' would not apply. Ever.

Cannabis does not selectively grab nutrients from the soil. There would be no reason to have soil mixes that 'work better' than others and the organic section of grow forums would be drop dead simple.

You can use 3 buckets of organic soil, all amended with different strengths and grow awesome cucumbers in all 3 pots. The cannabis will be the best out of the least amended pot, which still provided full nutrition.

End of Story. Using refined mineral nutrients shows the exact same effects, only quicker.

Don't believe me? Do it Yourself.

Douglas
Well, seeing you call natural processes that are the basis of all life "junk that needs to go away", I shall spare myself the trouble of discussing any further as there's no point :)

Extremely funny though, your idea of living soil being only for vegetables haha!
Cheers for that! :bigjoint:
 

Douglas.Curtis

Well-Known Member
Please provide pictures of the difference of light, medium and dark green.

Also provide pics to distinguish between nutrient dark green and strain dark green.
Why? Your job is to find the minimum feed level your plants thrive at, and note the color for your strain. Should I get the opportunity to torture some plants, on the side, I'll definitely take some photos to show the results. That will provide photos of at least one or two strains.

Photos are completely unnecessary to test this out. All you have to lose is lower quality.

Douglas
 

Douglas.Curtis

Well-Known Member
Well, seeing you call natural processes that are the basis of all life "junk that needs to go away", I shall spare myself the trouble of discussing any further as there's no point :)
When we're talking cannabis, that information does not apply in the same way. I've seen nearly the exact same explanation used by growers of low quality for over a decade now.

Doesn't fly with cannabis, it's an herb and a dynamic accumulator. This is why I'm looking to talk to new growers with an empty cup. They don't share your ingrained 'truths' that mess up cannabis. The smart ones will try my information out and grow seriously better cannabis.

Douglas
 

whitebb2727

Well-Known Member
Why? Your job is to find the minimum feed level your plants thrive at, and note the color for your strain. Should I get the opportunity to torture some plants, on the side, I'll definitely take some photos to show the results. That will provide photos of at least one or two strains.

Photos are completely unnecessary to test this out. All you have to lose is lower quality.

Douglas
You made the claim and supposedly did the testing now back it up.

You provided conjecture and are only confusing new growers.
 
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Douglas.Curtis

Well-Known Member
You made the claim and supposedly did the testing now back it up.

You provided conjecture and are only confusing new growers.

Please show the difference or you are a fraud.
Your ignorant requests will be ignored.

The information stands for what it is and your replies will be ignored from this point forward. Have a great day!
 

RM3

Well-Known Member
You made the claim and supposedly did the testing now back it up.

You provided conjecture and are only confusing new growers.

Please show the difference or you are a fraud.
He is not a fraud, I have met and smoked with Douglas and ya remember that Pink Kush I grew? It was him that gifted it to me. You may not agree with his presentation but he knows his stuff. He has an edge over most growers because he is hyper sensitive to things, give him a bud with pesticides or crap and he'll know right away and it is what he has had to learn about growing because of this that he is tryin to share.

I was tryin to stay outta it but couldn't any longer 8)
 

Douglas.Curtis

Well-Known Member
He is not a fraud, I have met and smoked with Douglas and ya remember that Pink Kush I grew? It was him that gifted it to me. You may not agree with his presentation but he knows his stuff. He has an edge over most growers because he is hyper sensitive to things, give him a bud with pesticides or crap and he'll know right away and it is what he has had to learn about growing because of this that he is tryin to share.

I was tryin to stay outta it but couldn't any longer 8)
Well that was unexpected!

Thanks for chiming in. :) I haven't had that pink for a while, so whoever you are you got it a while ago. (Autism sucks for memory! LOL) Do you still have the pink? She messed my head up BAD for over 2 months from that run. lol Apparently seizure patients don't do 'Kush' strains very well.

You're correct, my wife is always hammering me about diplomacy. I'm really doing much better, I swear. :)
This is 'Pink'
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
He is not a fraud, I have met and smoked with Douglas and ya remember that Pink Kush I grew? It was him that gifted it to me. You may not agree with his presentation but he knows his stuff. He has an edge over most growers because he is hyper sensitive to things, give him a bud with pesticides or crap and he'll know right away and it is what he has had to learn about growing because of this that he is tryin to share.

I was tryin to stay outta it but couldn't any longer 8)
We'll need more than your personal experience with him to back it up. Since he's gotten on here I've seen him do little more than push his book and explain basic concepts to other growers without actually going into detail or providing evidence for his own grows. The dude got on here and claimed he had the best cleanest cannabis that was smooth without even drying...sound like a loaded statement to me rife with subjective thought.

You know I'm sensitive too. I'm in the 1% and can smell bullshit a mile away if he really is that sensitive it's a gift and he would of done been picked up by someone looking to make use of his wonderful innate abilities.

I don't doubt the dude can grow some fire but he could stand to show a little humility and I don't know actually back up the game he's talking. We all can't afford to fly out to Colorado to try his herb so a few pictures that aren't on his book pushes would be helpful. Dude told me he has done eight years of careful research and I ask a few simple questions and he backs down without answering a damn one because I was "rude and inappropriate."

Might be cool in person but dude seems like a total ass to me.
 

RM3

Well-Known Member
Well that was unexpected!

Thanks for chiming in. :) I haven't had that pink for a while, so whoever you are you got it a while ago. (Autism sucks for memory! LOL) Do you still have the pink? She messed my head up BAD for over 2 months from that run. lol Apparently seizure patients don't do 'Kush' strains very well.

You're correct, my wife is always hammering me about diplomacy. I'm really doing much better, I swear. :)
This is 'Pink'
I crossed it to 6 different males and have been growin em out and yeppers it's been awhile, you also shared that Harlequin cut with me
 

calliandra

Well-Known Member
When we're talking cannabis, that information does not apply in the same way. I've seen nearly the exact same explanation used by growers of low quality for over a decade now.

Doesn't fly with cannabis, it's an herb and a dynamic accumulator. This is why I'm looking to talk to new growers with an empty cup. They don't share your ingrained 'truths' that mess up cannabis. The smart ones will try my information out and grow seriously better cannabis.

Douglas
I wish you would at least refrain from bamboozling people by throwing awesome-sounding words around. Do you even know what a dynamic accumulator is? If so please explain what cannabis specializes in? As this would be news to me indeed :mrgreen:

The thing is, whether a plant is a dynamic accumulator or not, the communication between plant and soil life (where nutrient uptake happens, adequate or no) still happens. Look at nitrogen fixing legumes with their specialized bacterial partnerships. They're dynamic accumulators, and lo, they still have this mechanism of procuring their nutrition via communication with the soil life they're growing in :rolleyes:

So fact is, one thing has nothing to do with the other :-P
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
Well that was unexpected!

Thanks for chiming in. :) I haven't had that pink for a while, so whoever you are you got it a while ago. (Autism sucks for memory! LOL) Do you still have the pink? She messed my head up BAD for over 2 months from that run. lol Apparently seizure patients don't do 'Kush' strains very well.

You're correct, my wife is always hammering me about diplomacy. I'm really doing much better, I swear. :)
This is 'Pink'
Google searched your image it came up here: http://www.imfromdenver.com/the-worlds-first-marijuana-mall-opened-in-colorado/

Do you just push that same picture everywhere you go?
 

RM3

Well-Known Member
We'll need more than your personal experience with him to back it up. Since he's gotten on here I've seen him do little more than push his book and explain basic concepts to other growers without actually going into detail or providing evidence for his own grows. The dude got on here and claimed he had the best cleanest cannabis that was smooth without even drying...sound like a loaded statement to me rife with subjective thought.

You know I'm sensitive too. I'm in the 1% and can smell bullshit a mile away if he really is that sensitive it's a gift and he would of done been picked up by someone looking to make use of his wonderful innate abilities.

I don't doubt the dude can grow some fire but he could stand to show a little humility and I don't know actually back up the game he's talking. We all can't afford to fly out to Colorado to try his herb so a few pictures that aren't on his book pushes would be helpful. Dude told me he has done eight years of careful research and I ask a few simple questions and he backs down without answering a damn one because I was "rude and inappropriate."

Might be cool in person but dude seems like a total ass to me.
Seems you may have missed that he has Autism ? and like I said, I was tryin to stay out of it but knowing what I know, I had to share
 

Cyrus420

Well-Known Member
Your images are everywhere bro but none of your methods...hmm...oh wait they are all in your book which you're totally not pushing anywhere online except everywhere you post.
 

Douglas.Curtis

Well-Known Member
I wish you would at least refrain from bamboozling people by throwing awesome-sounding words around. Do you even know what a dynamic accumulator is? If so please explain what cannabis specializes in? As this would be news to me indeed :mrgreen:

The thing is, whether a plant is a dynamic accumulator or not, the communication between plant and soil life (where nutrient uptake happens, adequate or no) still happens. Look at nitrogen fixing legumes with their specialized bacterial partnerships. They're dynamic accumulators, and lo, they still have this mechanism of procuring their nutrition via communication with the soil life they're growing in :rolleyes:

So fact is, one thing has nothing to do with the other :-P
Dynamic accumulators collect and store elements. Like legumes fixing nitrogen, cannabis stores silicon, potassium and cadmium. At least those are the ones I've found through research papers.

The thing is, cannabis is capable of absorbing much higher quantities of some elements than we 'as smoking humans' really want for quality. In short, the cannabis plant absorbs more than it needs for superior smoking quality.

I guess you could say you have to limit cannabis to only being able to absorb nutrients for a quality product, not everything it will willing absorb and retain.

Does that make more sense?
 
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