EXCUSE ME?!..The OFFICIAL Bernie Sanders For President 2016 Thread

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
People are trying to show you the truth because they care.

I poke at you but I really do hope you see the truth. Plus you have been a little nasty to me so I'm not going to pretend that didnt alter the way I treated you.

You do seem to have a hard time with being seen as someone who was deceived. All the news stations are reporting on the email leaks but CNN has writers who slant it to act like it is no big deal. Politico and cnn were in with the DNC on avoiding asking the tough questions and supporting her over other candidates from the start. They both have a habit of not providing context and legit sources that reinforce their view.

She is a very dangerous woman. She has a powerful network of donors that have screwed the common people on trade, financing, and national security.

Look into haiti and the clinton foundation.
The information is there but you need to get off the news stations that have been proven to be corrupt.

When you read a news articles look for multiple sources to confirm its reports. I know it takes a lot longer but it is necessary. The Clinton's have influence and pull in so many circles, so much of the news concerning her or her opponents is sorely lacking in citations.

When people say they want you to be better informed they are not necessarily questioning your intelligence. They are considering that you might be unwilling to be proven wrong or that you may not have enough time or enough exposure to the information they are aware of.

I genuinely would like to get along with all of you guys but if I am attacked I will defend myself.

If you want to start fresh with me and wipe the slate clean, I don't require an apology. I just require respect in the way you treat me going forward.
It's a non-profit, not a charity.

You're allowed take a salary and run it almost exactly like a corporation.

If you've a beef, it's with the laws regarding non-profit organisations and not Hillary's Foundation that has donated to many just and worthy causes.
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
I think you meant Delirium. We will blame the confusion on your permanent delirium from dementia.
No such thing as a drink called ta. That delirium is fucking you up bad.
Now can you remember why your husband was booted out the service, forcing you to apply for welfare to feed you, him and the baby. Did it have anything to do what Trump said about his kind being rapist, murderers and drug dealers.
Lol i was blazed and falling asleep.

Trump said illegal immigrants. Not legal immigrants. Not hispanic americans.
 

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Lol i was blazed and falling asleep.

Trump said illegal immigrants. Not legal immigrants. Not hispanic americans.
Legal immigration?

You mean have 2.5 mill dollars, win a green card or marry an American sort of legal immigration?

Not exactly options for alot of people.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
People are trying to show you the truth because they care.

I poke at you but I really do hope you see the truth. Plus you have been a little nasty to me so I'm not going to pretend that didnt alter the way I treated you.

You do seem to have a hard time with being seen as someone who was deceived. All the news stations are reporting on the email leaks but CNN has writers who slant it to act like it is no big deal. Politico and cnn were in with the DNC on avoiding asking the tough questions and supporting her over other candidates from the start. They both have a habit of not providing context and legit sources that reinforce their view.

She is a very dangerous woman. She has a powerful network of donors that have screwed the common people on trade, financing, and national security.

Look into haiti and the clinton foundation.
The information is there but you need to get off the news stations that have been proven to be corrupt.

When you read a news articles look for multiple sources to confirm its reports. I know it takes a lot longer but it is necessary. The Clinton's have influence and pull in so many circles, so much of the news concerning her or her opponents is sorely lacking in citations.

When people say they want you to be better informed they are not necessarily questioning your intelligence. They are considering that you might be unwilling to be proven wrong or that you may not have enough time or enough exposure to the information they are aware of.

I genuinely would like to get along with all of you guys but if I am attacked I will defend myself.

If you want to start fresh with me and wipe the slate clean, I don't require an apology. I just require respect in the way you treat me going forward.
Absolutely I've been harsh towards you. We disagree on just about everything. I'm not asking for an apology from you either. If you want to push your views on abortion or that fucking wall, then I'll push right back.

My point is that I'm not assuming you would be swayed by a couple of articles. I think the supporters of Trump are making up their minds according to their values, situation in life and information they actively seek and make a decision that is in their best interest. The decision they made is based upon a lifetime of experience and thought.

To say "oh the DNC planted a question in the debate" as if that would move 31% of the Democratic Party's electorate to vote for Hillary is preposterous. As if 11 million people are choosing Trump over Hillary because Rush Limbaugh said something one day. Maybe a few hundred thousand members of the Democratic party can be easily swayed by shenanigans but not 16 million people out of a voting pool of 30 million. You've moved on from Bernie and chosen Trump because you can't stand Hillary. It is possible to disagree with that choice without dismissing your ability to choose. That is my argument with what our resident Bernie Babies are saying.
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
It's a non-profit, not a charity.

You're allowed take a salary and run it almost exactly like a corporation.

If you've a beef, it's with the laws regarding non-profit organisations and not Hillary's Foundation that has donated to many just and worthy causes.
So how did those buildings work out for the haitians? Why did hillary's brother get awarded the gold mining contract?

The Clinton's are all about "appearing" genuine and kind. They hide their motives until they gain power and then screw over those they convinced to vote for them.

http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20100806005746/en/Clayton-Homes-Haiti

Warren buffet is a shady fuck. I will be looking into him furthur.

https://www.publicintegrity.org/2015/04/03/17024/warren-buffetts-mobile-home-empire-preys-poor
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Lol i was blazed and falling asleep.

Trump said illegal immigrants. Not legal immigrants. Not hispanic americans.
Actually he said " When Mexico sends its people "
Why won't you tell us why your husband was booted from the service. Was it rape ? murder ? or drugs.
Trump thinks part of your familia is shit
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Absolutely I've been harsh towards you. We disagree on just about everything. I'm not asking for an apology from you either. If you want to push your views on abortion or that fucking wall, then I'll push right back.

My point is that I'm not assuming you would be swayed by a couple of articles. I think the supporters of Trump are making up their minds according to their values, situation in life and information they actively seek and make a decision that is in their best interest. The decision they made is based upon a lifetime of experience and thought.

To say "oh the DNC planted a question in the debate" as if that would move 31% of the Democratic Party's electorate to vote for Hillary is preposterous. As if 11 million people are choosing Trump over Hillary because Rush Limbaugh said something one day. Maybe a few hundred thousand members of the Democratic party can be easily swayed by shenanigans but not 16 million people out of a voting pool of 30 million. You've moved on from Bernie and chosen Trump because you can't stand Hillary. It is possible to disagree with that choice without dismissing your ability to choose. That is my argument with what our resident Bernie Babies are saying.
Again, I'm not asking you whether or not you think a Trump supporter thinks they're voting in their best interest. That answer is obvious, of course they do, otherwise they wouldn't be voting for Trump

I'm asking you if you think Trump supporters are actually voting in their own best interest. Do you think Trump's tax plan will objectively benefit the average Trump supporter? Do you think Trump's foreign policy will objectively benefit the average Trump supporter? His illegal immigration policy? His opposition to NATO? His climate change policy?

Or do you think the average Trump supporter has fallen for his bullshit and are voting for him for reasons other than a Trump administration will be objectively better for them?
So my question to you is, why would Clinton supporters be any different? Are they just more politically savvy than Trump supporters?

You're listing subjective reasons, I'm asking for objective reasons and I know you're smart enough to understand the difference, and I know you know exactly what I'm asking you, you just refuse to answer it honestly because it would show that your argument that people are not swayed by media manipulation is total bullshit. The princeton study I posted earlier also proves that argument is total bullshit.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Seriously? What, are you like 22 years old?

You have some interesting views on democracy and purity. Let's say democracy is a strong beautiful woman. What the DNC did was tantamount to splashing some mud her dress. What TRUMP! and his ilk would do to her is more tantamount to what OJ did to Nicole.

Just because I didn't bother defusing your word trap doesn't give you the right to shape me into whatever strange, theoretical paradigm you exist in.
I'm 29

Subverting democracy is monumentally worse than anything Trump could do to this nation as president
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
You're listing subjective reasons, I'm asking for objective reasons and I know you're smart enough to understand the difference, and I know you know exactly what I'm asking you, you just refuse to answer it honestly because it would show that your argument that people are not swayed by media manipulation is total bullshit. The princeton study I posted earlier also proves that argument is total bullshit.
Dude, people make up their minds for many reasons. I'm saying that 31% of Democratic Party members did not just up and change their mind due to a debate question or due to some collusion with Politico or some six-month period where the media favored Hillary when the evidence is that Hillary received negative treatment compared to Bernie. Not saying it's everything Hillary has done or the DNC did is OK, just saying you are all worked up over a morality issue that and not an actual cause for Bernie's losses.

Of course I refuse to go down the path of objective reasons why people make up their minds. Inherent to the human decision making is subjectivity.

My discussion with Pie is an example of how subjective the whole process is. While I don't treat her very well, I've never claimed she was less able to make a decision. My differences with her lies in our differences regarding values, her belief that Hillary is some sort of criminal based upon years of right wing propaganda, her ignorance and fear of Muslims and desire for an authoritarian leader. We differ greatly on that. But I don't claim she's inferior because she chose Trump. That is where you and I disagree.

I didn't read that princeton study. I'll go back and find it, read or at least scan it and see if it is germane to this discussion.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Dude, people make up their minds for many reasons. I'm saying that 31% of Democratic Party members did not just up and change their mind due to a debate question or due to some collusion with Politico or some six-month period where the media favored Hillary when the evidence is that Hillary received negative treatment compared to Bernie. Not saying it's everything Hillary has done or the DNC did is OK, just saying you are all worked up over a morality issue that and not an actual cause for Bernie's losses.

Of course I refuse to go down the path of objective reasons why people make up their minds. Inherent to the human decision making is subjectivity.

My discussion with Pie is an example of how subjective the whole process is. While I don't treat her very well, I've never claimed she was less able to make a decision. My differences with her lies in our differences regarding values, her belief that Hillary is some sort of criminal based upon years of right wing propaganda, her ignorance and fear of Muslims and desire for an authoritarian leader. We differ greatly on that. But I don't claim she's inferior because she chose Trump. That is where you and I disagree.

I didn't read that princeton study. I'll go back and find it, read or at least scan it and see if it is germane to this discussion.
I'm asking you if you think Trump's policies would be objectively good for the average Trump supporter or not

His tax policy lowers taxes on the rich and increases taxes on the poor. The average Trump supporter is poor. This is an example of a policy that is objectively bad for the average Trump supporter
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
I'm asking you if you think Trump's policies would be objectively good for the average Trump supporter or not

His tax policy lowers taxes on the rich and increases taxes on the poor. The average Trump supporter is poor. This is an example of a policy that is objectively bad for the average Trump supporter
Of course I think Trump's tax policies would be bad for the US and it's citizens. How do I know this? I'm not a tax expert. I read and decide based upon what I've read and from my personal experience. To say I'm totally objective would be an indication that I don't know myself all that well. And holy crap, tax policy is complicated. Even the experts disagree on effects of them. We've seen a run of bad results from people claiming they should be otherwise. Some still claim cutting taxes will float all boats. They seem earnest about this too. What I want is to stop the experiment and go back to the idea that the people with money should be taxed according to the benefit they derive from society. Also use taxes as one tool to reduce the inequality of wealth in our population. Can I objectively justify this? Not completely. There is some subjectivity in my choices.

To the average Trump supporter, they must be concluding other than I do regarding Trump's tax policies. Or maybe it's not the most important issue to them. I don't know what they are thinking.
 
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Unclebaldrick

Well-Known Member
OK @Padawanbater2 (who is padawanbaiter1?)... So - just sticking with the modern era - the 1960 election was stolen... yet somehow democracy survived. And then Watergate... but democracy survived. Several faked wars ... but somehow democracy survived.

And the DNC is going to bring down democracy once and for all?

That is ridiculous. In 25 years, almost nobody will remember the DNC "scandal" and 1960 and Watergate will still be relevant.

TRUMP! could bring down democracy. He is exactly the type.
 
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