Flushing first DWC grow

[Dumme]

To point out how cleanly you can grow cannabis with clean nutrients.


No, most plants are not dynamic accumulators. Cucumbers do not absorb excess nutrients and make cucumbers out of them, at least not nearly to the same degree as dynamic accumulators do. Organic and Hydro grown plants both look the same, when they have too much nutrient in the root zone, they look dark and their growth suffers. The higher the amendment/nutrient strength, the slower the plant grows and the lower the yield.
Cannabis is extremely sensitive to overfeeding, much more than the majority of growers realize.


The majority of nutrients being used for cannabis are "hobby" nutrients, nowhere near pharmaceutical grade. Agricultural and Horticultural grade are usually not pharmaceutical grade. GH, AN and a few others are.


Any elements that exceed the natural plant capacity for 'reserves' is tucked out of the way. Read up on dynamic accumulator plants. They mainly store it in the new growth tips, which are the flowers during flower.


It's called environmental control.


I'm stating that dark cannabis is because of excess nutrients or elements absorbed during flower. Nutrients, silica, tap water contaminants, whatever. Cannabis absorbs it and packs it into new growth when it has no immediate use for it.

Dried, cured bud will be harsh and leave a dark ash, when it was improperly grown in the first place. Locked in excess does not flush/fade out.


Mined, out of th earth by machines, refined in a factory to remove contaminants. People have a misconception about refined mineral nutrients vs organic nutrients.

Does that help?

Douglas

Im very interested in the effect of silica and potassium on taste. The more i read the more interesting it's becoming. Would you recommend any other sites on this, as I'm having a hard time finding?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Im very interested in the effect of silica and potassium on taste. The more i read the more interesting it's becoming. Would you recommend any other sites on this, as I'm having a hard time finding?

Potassium is considered responsible for quality smoking characteristics and sweetness in tobacco. I find the same is true for cannabis. Read up on it in the tobacco industry.

Silica? Ever smoke a microchip? That's silicon. The more silica/silicon you use during flower, the tougher and hotter the end buds smoke. This is information from personal experience when using silicon as the *only* additive/change in my grow setup. Night and day difference

Douglas

 

[Dumme]

Potassium is considered responsible for quality smoking characteristics and sweetness in tobacco. I find the same is true for cannabis. Read up on it in the tobacco industry.

Silica? Ever smoke a microchip? That's silicon. The more silica/silicon you use during flower, the tougher and hotter the end buds smoke. This is information from personal experience when using silicon as the *only* additive/change in my grow setup. Night and day difference

Douglas

It's funny you bring that up, as I refer to tobacco curing methods quite frequently for cross-referencing.

As I do use silicates, I've never noticed a change in taste. Possibly because my ppm's are normally never above 140, maybe?

I do use the same nutrients and strength throughout Veg and Flower.

 

[Dumme]

Either way, until more studies are done, this is still just a very good thesis. Im excited to be following up on this..
And thank you, Douglas, as I'm finding it harder and harder to be stumped by actually sharing. And again, i may not agree with everything you say, but i give credit where its do.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Either way, until more studies are done, this is still just a very good thesis. Im excited to be following up on this..
And thank you, Douglas, as I'm finding it harder and harder to be stumped by actually sharing. And again, i may not agree with everything you say, but i give credit where its do.

Thank you.

I look forward to actual studies being done. At this point I simply have two advantages going for me. One, I'm extremely sensitive to taste, smell and touch. Two, I came across cannabis that was stupendously higher quality than mine, 8 years ago.

Been a long road since, I figure I'm mostly there. Haven't found anything as high a quality for 8 years now. Looking to see a whole lot more around in the future.

Douglas

 

[Dumme]

Thank you.

I look forward to actual studies being done. At this point I simply have two advantages going for me. One, I'm extremely sensitive to taste, smell and touch. Two, I came across cannabis that was stupendously higher quality than mine, 8 years ago.

Been a long road since, I figure I'm mostly there. Haven't found anything as high a quality for 8 years now. Looking to see a whole lot more around in the future.

Douglas

Chasing the Dragon, yeah, me too.

 

[Dumme]

Thank you.

I look forward to actual studies being done. At this point I simply have two advantages going for me. One, I'm extremely sensitive to taste, smell and touch. Two, I came across cannabis that was stupendously higher quality than mine, 8 years ago.

Been a long road since, I figure I'm mostly there. Haven't found anything as high a quality for 8 years now. Looking to see a whole lot more around in the future.

Douglas

The last couple of days I've been speaking with different botanist. While this term "dynamic accumulators" is interesting, but alas, come to the understanding that it's not based on science, per se, and just more thesis, as far as taste. I do acknowledge all of this is of course just preliminary findings. I will would of course follow up with more information as I get it.

From my understanding, being a dynamic accumulator, is not referring to a massive collection of nutrients because of supersoil, instead, just a declaration that cannabis has the ability for potassium and silica to be stored naturally, as it would anyway, regardless if you plant is feed with heavy or light amounts of nutrients.

It's has nothing to do with excess nutrients or how the plant naturally stores sugars in sink cells.

 

[Lucky Luke]

great thread and debate. Cheers.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

The last couple of days I've been speaking with different botanist. While this term "dynamic accumulators" is interesting, but alas, come to the understanding that it's not based on science, per se, and just more thesis, as far as taste. I do acknowledge all of this is of course just preliminary findings. I will would of course follow up with more information as I get it.

From my understanding, being a dynamic accumulator, is not referring to a massive collection of nutrients because of supersoil, instead, just a declaration that cannabis has the ability for potassium and silica to be stored naturally, as it would anyway, regardless if you plant is feed with heavy or light amounts of nutrients.

It's has nothing to do with excess nutrients or how the plant naturally stores sugars in sink cells.

Yes, I'd like a better label for cannabis than 'dynamic accumulator.' Cannabis has been shown to dynamically accumulate toxic levels of cadmium, from soil listed as 'cadmium safe.' Not sure where I read that though, study measuring the metal content of cannabis grown in different types of soils.

What I'd really like is a study that tests the final element content of finished cannabis, grown in different nutrient profiles. I know cannabis is absorbing excess, when excess is available. I'd like to know what that excess is and how cannabis deals with it. When my nutrient mix is unbalanced, or I feed more than the bare minimum needed for full growth, the cannabis is darker, harder in structure and the ash is darker and heavier in weight.

So they're saying only excess silica and potassium are absorbed and stored? Do they remember where this information comes from or are they applying general plant info to cannabis?

Good stuff. Thanks,

Douglas

 

[Dumme]

Yes, I'd like a better label for cannabis than 'dynamic accumulator.' Cannabis has been shown to dynamically accumulate toxic levels of cadmium, from soil listed as 'cadmium safe.' Not sure where I read that though, study measuring the metal content of cannabis grown in different types of soils.

What I'd really like is a study that tests the final element content of finished cannabis, grown in different nutrient profiles. I know cannabis is absorbing excess, when excess is available. I'd like to know what that excess is and how cannabis deals with it. When my nutrient mix is unbalanced, or I feed more than the bare minimum needed for full growth, the cannabis is darker, harder in structure and the ash is darker and heavier in weight.

So they're saying only excess silica and potassium are absorbed and stored? Do they remember where this information comes from or are they applying general plant info to cannabis?

Good stuff. Thanks,

Douglas

I digress; from what I understand, being a dynamic accumulator is only stating that the species is known to hold more of a specific element naturally, and not referring to any toxicities. The idea behind it is to replenish nutrients when tilled in the soil for next grow, from plants that naturally hold more.

Examples being,
Peanut and soy naturally hold more Nitrogen, so theyre used to cycle in southern plantations after tilled in, to replenish nitrogen after years of soil stripped.

Cannabis storage of Silica and Potassium in its cells is standard for the species, and not relevant to toxic levels of nutrients.
Basically it only stores and builds from sugars, not raw nutrients, including Silica and Potassium.

I was correct in the means that the Sink Cells do not have the capacity to store raw nutrients. The carbohydrates use a larger amount of Silica and Potassium to be processed, hence more within; normal, not toxicity.

Cannabis being an accumulator is referring to the total mass of the plant. The longer the plant grows, the bigger it is, and the more it will have of the relevant element within. True for, if flushed, or starved, from day one; the cannabis species will naturally store more P, and Si.

Source:
Linda chalker-Scott - Washington State University. In person, and books.

And

The links you provided.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Cannabis storage of Silica and Potassium in its cells is standard for the species, and not relevant to toxic levels of nutrients.
Basically it only stores and builds from sugars, not raw nutrients, including Silica and Potassium.

I was correct in the means that the Sink Cells do not have the capacity to store raw nutrients. The carbohydrates use a larger amount of Silica and Potassium to be processed, hence more within; normal, not toxicity.

So, would it be safe to say that the majority of the cannabis I see with black ash is from potassium and silica?

I've only spent a few years using silica, I've had black ash from cannabis I overfed. Do you have links to any studies on test results for clean cannabis? I'm very curious to see exactly what is and is not present in the end flower, combined with the growing conditions, especially photos.

Douglas

 

[Dumme]

To clear thing up from earlier posts:

sil·i·ca
ˈsilikə/
noun

1. a hard, unreactive, colorless compound that occurs as the mineral quartz and as a principal constituent of sandstone and other rocks

*It's in everything from tap water to soda, to concrete, and toothpaste.

sil·i·con
ˈsilikən,ˈsiləˌkän/
noun

1. the chemical element of atomic number 14, a nonmetal with semiconducting properties, used in making electronic circuits. Pure silicon exists in a shiny dark gray crystalline form and as an amorphous powder.

* the stuff that makes up microchips

So, would it be safe to say that the majority of the cannabis I see with black ash is from potassium and silica?

The answer is no, that would still just be a thesis, not based on current science.

The old idea of thought is that nutrient build up in leaves and must be used up for the non-black, harsh taste in the burning of cannabis. There's just no scientific evidence to support this claim at this time. When the term "nutrients" is used, in "nutrients in leaves" it's only in the capacity of carbohydrates and sugars, not bottled nutrients you feed the soil with.

Studies do show that black ash is from non-dried, improperly cured cannabis. This can easily be tested by anyone. Cut a small bud off your plant, that still wet, and try to set it on fire. What colour is the ash?

Do you have links to any studies on test results for clean cannabis?

Short answer, no.

Yes, flushing the soil and starving the plant, and will infact break the cycle of the manufacturing of chlorophyll. Essentially replicating fall.
And...
Any carbohydrates will be used up, chlorophyll will breat down, and even more so when cut, dried, and cured properly. Yes, the ash will be white and smooth.

The ash will "also" be white & smooth if you don't starve the plant, but dry and cure properly, because the carbohydrates will break down anyway... the chlorophyll will break down anyway. Flushing is not nessissary, just a choice for speed of cure.

 

[BusterVAP]

Hey Dumme sort for my comments earlier I apologize. I just want to comment that the only reason I flush is because it just seems right to get a cleaner product. Whether you do or not. I also believe highly in properly curing which can take a regular quality bud and give it that extra umphh. For me if I have the option to flush I only do it because alot of medical facilities do it and there are a lot of tests being done about trace minerals. I had absolutely no idea that flushing helps speed up the drying and curing process. Good to know

 

[BusterVAP]

Just seems like a win win and you save on nutrients even if you use a flushing agent. Advanced nutrients are one of the most expensive nutrients out there and the flushing product is there cheapest at 27$a litre

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Studies do show that black ash is from non-dried, improperly cured cannabis. This can easily be tested by anyone. Cut a small bud off your plant, that still wet, and try to set it on fire. What colour is the ash?

Mine is off-white, what color is yours? Seriously, does not matter what stage of flower, my "wet' bud easily burns to an off-white ash. I take it as sign I'm doing something wrong, if it burns to any other color.

Silicon, element. Silica, combination of Silicon and Oxygen. Silicon is available in liquid forms, generally derived from potassium silicate. Silica is one of various rock forms of silicon, thrown in to most organic soil mixes.

Flushing is not nessissary, just a choice for speed of cure.

Interesting, without the 5 day flush I definitely taste nutrient, will have to test a long cure without a flush. Going to get interesting when I have dual res tents going for side-by sides.

Douglas

 

[Dumme]

What is your current ppm's for potassium?
What's your ppms silica in flower?

The most common element in our solar system, and also what burns in our sun, and what we drink, are different only by oxygen.
Oxygen makes all the difference in the world..

Mine is off-white, what color is yours?

I'd need a pictures to believe it's off white. Would it be a big deal to take one?

Mine's black, and hard to keep lit, as any wet cutting would be..

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

What is your current ppm's for potassium?
What's your ppms silica in flower?



Do you have pictures of your burn?

Mine's black, and hard to keep lit, as any wet cutting would be..

View attachment 3746411

Potassium would be general Lucas Formula levels, plus the GH pH Up powder.

I use liquid silicon as pH up in the first flowering reservoir, from the drop in pH it's obvious there isn't any left at the end of stretch. I use pH up powder to set my pH at 5.4, then use liquid silicon to pH up to 5.8. The pH is back down to 5.4 within 7 to 10 days or my res size is wrong for clean DWC.

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

Soft and fluffy. Just the way I like it.

That was a tightly packed bowl of "Twista." I'm sure you've seen me post photos of it elsewhere.

 

[Dumme]

Potassium would be general Lucas Formula levels, plus the GH pH Up powder.

I use liquid silicon as pH up in the first flowering reservoir, from the drop in pH it's obvious there isn't any left at the end of stretch. I use pH up powder to set my pH at 5.4, then use liquid silicon to pH up to 5.8. The pH is back down to 5.4 within 7 to 10 days or my res size is wrong for clean DWC.

I said wet, absolutely no way is that wet.

Do you know your ppms?

 

[Douglas.Curtis]

I said wet, absolutely no way is that wet

Oh, lol. Nah, I never took a picture of the ash from mid-flower. I just know I've done it multiple times, even showed a few different people. I clip bud from a plant, chop it up small, put it in a bowl and slowly burn it. The first few hits evap the water and then the last few tun it to an off-white ash, pretty much the same as the pic I posted.

I started doing that a few years ago, when I ran across people talking about moisture content determining the color of the end ash. Just doesn't wash in my garden. I have a nice camera now, I'll have to remember to take pics this next run.

Douglas