45 days of vegging and still no roots?
- Thread starter Ngozer
- Start date
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
awriiiiiiiiiight. That's wat I'm TAWKIN about. 
heheheh
hehehehsmokertoker
Well-Known Member
Congradulations!!! Keep'm coming!
Ngozer
Active Member
Seriously guys, thank you for all the help. I was pulling out my hair trying to figure out what was wrong. So many sleepless nights!
Now that roots are starting, I should get them ready for flowering, no? They are 55 days since seed and I am hoping to get them flowering once they have a substantial root mass.
I am in the process of building a cabinet to house a 250W HPS. The two CFLs I am using now will go into a clone box chamber in the cab. The clone chamber will be 13.5"x23"x20".
Al, I noticed that you use the fluorescents. I know that clones don't need that much light, but do you think I should have both lights in the clone box for better coverage? Due to legal restrictions, I will only have a maximum of 12 clones so would one light cut it?
Now that roots are starting, I should get them ready for flowering, no? They are 55 days since seed and I am hoping to get them flowering once they have a substantial root mass.
I am in the process of building a cabinet to house a 250W HPS. The two CFLs I am using now will go into a clone box chamber in the cab. The clone chamber will be 13.5"x23"x20".
Al, I noticed that you use the fluorescents. I know that clones don't need that much light, but do you think I should have both lights in the clone box for better coverage? Due to legal restrictions, I will only have a maximum of 12 clones so would one light cut it?
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
yep, and all it took was getting the watering right.
If you've got H2O2 in there now too, that'll stop any pathogen (pythium, fusarium) activity which can slow or stop root formation.
They need to be vegged under 18+h/day light until they are showing preflowers at the nodes. The preflowers may be gender non-specific. See the FAQ for 'sexual maturity' and 'preflowers.'
Once you have them at sexual maturity, you can then take a cutting, get it to set root and chuck it in to flower to sex the mother plant. You can alternatively block light to one branch of the yet sex-unknown vegging plant for 12h/day to determine sex. Once you have known females, you can then go on to flower, or more sensibly, establish mother plants, grow them out a bit and then take cuttings which you'll later flower (and it looks like you're planning to be sensible
). Sounds good. If you don't have one, you'll need a heat mat, either a fixed 30C mat or an adjustable unit. A computer fan would be OK to vent your clonebox, operated by a thermostat set for 28-30C.
For as little power as CFLs use, I'd put in two if not three 11W or larger CFLs. There's 125W CFLs available but this is serrrrrrious overkill. You're depending on heat from lighting to warm your air temp to 30C. CFLs make much less heat than the old style tube fluoros with magnetic ballasts as I use.
Ngozer
Active Member
Will do.
Man I really hope I'll get to flower @ least one plant!Once you have them at sexual maturity, you can then take a cutting, get it to set root and chuck it in to flower to sex the mother plant. You can alternatively block light to one branch of the yet sex-unknown vegging plant for 12h/day to determine sex. Once you have known females, you can then go on to flower, or more sensibly, establish mother plants, grow them out a bit and then take cuttings which you'll later flower (and it looks like you're planning to be sensible
Well in my area, keeping the temp below 30C will be the real challenge. It regularly gets up to 32-34C. I have a 120 mm fan @ 140 CFM as an exhaust and 4 inch passive intake so I hope it won't get too hot.
LOL. I am using 105W and 125W 6500K CFLs. Is it too much?
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Seeds come up 50% female on average. If you beat the average, call yourself lucky as Larry.
Mmm. That is too hot. Your RW cubes may dry out too fast. If you have cooler than 32-34C air to bring in, add an intake fan to bring the box temp closer to 30C.
waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too much.
There's the solution to your heat problem! Swap those honkers for a few 10-20W CFLs as found at any grocery. The big CFLS might be good for vegging mums. Clones don't need to be pounded with light, only be convinced it's daylight for 18+ hrs/day to keep them in veg mode until you chuck them in to flower.
Ngozer
Active Member
Okay, I'll pick up some smaller CFLs. Should I get half blue and red lights?waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy too much.
A question about mothers: The mothers you have in your thread are huge. Is there a general rule as to the size of the mother before cutting?
Update:
I wrapped up one of my reservoirs with aluminum tape and it seems pretty good. Do you think I can go to a regular DWC now or should I wait? Here's a pic:
Also, I think I lost my smallest plant. It's just a dried stick. I don't have the heart to yank her yet. Plus, I figure it's a reminder to the others of the cost of failure. LOL
Lastly, why do all my plants look different? None of them look to me like they are the same strain. Is it normal? Thanks.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Your plants won't ordinarily be in the clonebox long enough to care, but if you have your choice, pick lamps with a more bluish spectrum.
Not really. That's just the size they are after 14 days of vegging after I do a batch of cuttings. You're looking for thick stems, preferably 5.5mm and greater, to use for cuttings. CFLs won't produce the kind of growth you see in my mums in 14 days. I'm using a 400HPS on 24/7 for the mums. They'll take over and eat the neighbourhood children if not cut back severely every 2 weeks!
Definitely wait until you have a good spray of several roots out of the bottom of your cubes before trying to introduce them to pots of pellets in your DWC. It's going to take at least 7-10 days of proper watering, avoiding saturation, for roots to get enthusiastic about their new digs.
Looks pretty lightproof.Here's a pic:
Dead plants are hosts to mould. Out it goes, along with its media.
Sorry, but I don't have any emotional attachment to my plants. If they're not doing well, they're compost, same as a head of lettuce that got forgotten for too long in the fridge. I once mathed it out that I've grown more than 5000 plants in the last 8 years. I'd have suffered major emotional trauma by now if every one I harvested or culled for underperformance made me sobby.
Do you know the provenance of your seeds with any surety? Did they come from a reputable seedbank? If they're bagseeds, they could be from several strains.
Different conditions can cause the same DNA to produce different looking plants. A P deficient plant or one raised in cooler than optimum conditions may have purpling stems, buds or leaf petioles. Truly genetically purple plants are verrrrrry rare- 99.999% of the time you find purple buds, the plant was sick or stressed, meaning it will have less resin & thus THC than a healthy plant. An overwatered plant may have very small fan leaves.
Ngozer
Active Member
Haha. I want to grow monster plants. Once I get better, maybe I can quit my day job and become a bonafide weed baron
.I only have 4, so the loss of 25% is traumatic to me!!!Sorry, but I don't have any emotional attachment to my plants. If they're not doing well, they're compost, same as a head of lettuce that got forgotten for too long in the fridge. I once mathed it out that I've grown more than 5000 plants in the last 8 years. I'd have suffered major emotional trauma by now if every one I harvested or culled for underperformance made me sobby.
I dream of the day when I have just 50 plants under my belt 
Well I bought Double Gum from the White Label Seed Co. and they sent me an extra pack of these Blue Australian seeds. I have no experience with any seed bank so I have no idea how reputable these guys are. A few other members noted their successful purchases so I figure they are okay.
From looking at my pictures do you have any thoughts of their condition? One seems dense with fat leaves, another seems lankier with fat leaves also, and then there's one with long skinny leaves on a long skinny body.
One more thing, I have one fan for the clonebox and I was wondering if you'd recommend using it as an intake or exhaust? Thanks.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
If your goal is to quit your day job, you won't be doing it with 'monster' plants, at least in terms of stature. Tall and/or bushy plants are not the indoor grower's friend. SoG systems, with short plants shorn of all branching, produce 2-3x what tall/bushy plants can in the same floorspace. SoG makes the most efficient use of light possible by tailoring plants to the light pattern.Haha. I want to grow monster plants. Once I get better, maybe I can quit my day job and become a bonafide weed baron
I see your point. Sorry for your loss, I'll send ya a fuckin' Hallmark- cos I care enough to send the very best.I only have 4, so the loss of 25% is traumatic to me!!!
So, what was the deceased plant's name? Helga, wasn't it?
Let us spray.
Dear Shapeless Power Who Isn't Really There But Watches Over Us At All Times Even When We're Doing Some Really Personal And Embarrassing Shit;
We beseech thee that Helga may find her reincarnation and life everlasting through the carbon cycle.
I've gone back over your page 1 pics and they all do look to be the same DNA in various states of disrepair.
I'm kinda interested in what this 'Australian Blue' thing is. I wonder if it's 'Australian' like an Outback Steakhouse.
We're not known as a big cannabis breeding mecca.I would suspect that all are suffering from wet feet to one degree or another. When they're all healthy, they'll look more similar.
Use it as an exhaust, mounted high on a wall or on the ceiling of the clonebox. You see mine on the upper left, thermostat is at plant level.
diggitydank420
Well-Known Member
Ditch the rockwool all together, just use hydorton expanded clay pellets. They are ph neutral, hold water, but don't over saturate. And best of all... they are re-usable, meaning you're not getting ripped by your hydro shop anymore.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
dd420, have you seen the rest of thread or just the end? That's kinda the plan.
Let me catch you up. The 4" cube is extraneous. Ngozer's cuttings were started in smaller cubes then moved into 4" cubes, then put in netpots in a DWC, exposing the RW to mist. The exposure of the RW to the mist caused the RW to be saturated, which is the problem which took poor young Helga.
For his ensuing batches, Ngozer hopefully will be starting his plants in 40mm RW cubes. When they have a good spray of roots, he will be potting them up in netpots of pellets and putting those in his DWC. There will be at least 25mm of pellets between the 40mm RW cube and the mist from the DWC. The pellets will be wetted constantly but will provide a barrier to prevent the 40mm cube used for cloning from being constantly saturated. The roots out of the cube will seek the damp pellets and it's off to the races from there.
Pellets have a use in this world, but I don't use them because they are heavy, hard to dispose of and while re-usable in theory, not so re-usable in practise. Before re-use, they must be cleaned FULLY of old root matter and sterilised or root disease can be transferred from crop to crop. Cleaning them is a sloppy prick of a job. They might be re-used 2-3 times if you're game to clean them, but then they begin to accumulate nute salts and must be discarded.
Let me catch you up. The 4" cube is extraneous. Ngozer's cuttings were started in smaller cubes then moved into 4" cubes, then put in netpots in a DWC, exposing the RW to mist. The exposure of the RW to the mist caused the RW to be saturated, which is the problem which took poor young Helga.
For his ensuing batches, Ngozer hopefully will be starting his plants in 40mm RW cubes. When they have a good spray of roots, he will be potting them up in netpots of pellets and putting those in his DWC. There will be at least 25mm of pellets between the 40mm RW cube and the mist from the DWC. The pellets will be wetted constantly but will provide a barrier to prevent the 40mm cube used for cloning from being constantly saturated. The roots out of the cube will seek the damp pellets and it's off to the races from there.
Pellets have a use in this world, but I don't use them because they are heavy, hard to dispose of and while re-usable in theory, not so re-usable in practise. Before re-use, they must be cleaned FULLY of old root matter and sterilised or root disease can be transferred from crop to crop. Cleaning them is a sloppy prick of a job. They might be re-used 2-3 times if you're game to clean them, but then they begin to accumulate nute salts and must be discarded.
Ngozer
Active Member
Can I at least grow monster mothers? Heh. What style do you recommend I use for this batch? The original idea was to try and scrog.
Holy shit Al, you really did it this time! I almost died laughing from this. Are you a part time baron, part time comedy writer?
Let us spray.
Dear Shapeless Power Who Isn't Really There But Watches Over Us At All Times Even When We're Doing Some Really Personal And Embarrassing Shit;
We beseech thee that Helga may find her reincarnation and life everlasting through the carbon cycle.
If I am getting them back on track, when should I expect to see some changes? My 2nd largest still has leaves that are curling down around the edges, but are not curling stemward like a claw.
Are you implying that Outback Steakhouse is NOT Australian? I will inform you, sir, that they speak with accents and say things like "mate" and "mum" all the time on their commercials. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.I'm kinda interested in what this 'Australian Blue' thing is. I wonder if it's 'Australian' like an Outback Steakhouse.
LOL.So once the roots are long enough to access the water through the pellets being misted, I just let the rw dry up?
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
You can grow big mums if you like; they're going to be cut back severely every time you do cuttings anyway. If you don't do cuttings often, they'll need to be pruned back every couple of weeks to keep them relatively short. If you allow mums to get long mainstems, all the fresh growth is on the end of a long stick, wasting a lot of vertical height in the mother area.
ScrOG, when done correctly (and which really takes quite a lot of practise to get right), is truly art. It is an enthusiast's growing style, for people who don't mind mucking around a lot with an op. What ScrOG isn't is practical. It's a lot of stuffing around tying plants to the screen, hoping not to break any branches, guessing when to stop vegging so the plants don't overgrow the screen, and then for your trouble, you get plants you can't move around to work on until harvest day.
Gotta get SoGgy with it. SoG is dead simple. Flower clones soon after they have set root. That's the whole instruction. No veg time means less time from cutting clones to harvest, around 2 weeks less time. Small plants mean more production per sq ft. Lack of small lower branches means higher avg bud size and density.
Downside is that SoG uses a larger number of smaller plants. High numbers of plants can get you in very hot water in some locations if you get busted. Solution? Don't get busted!
SoG is most practical watered by flood systems because of the quantity of pots involved. Flood systems are highly flexible with plant numbers- it doesn't matter whether there's 1 or 23 plants in your flood tray, all get watered the same with no plumbing or drippers.
Just put the plant/s in the tray. Having a single 'remote' reservoir as opposed to multiple individual reservoirs with each plant (or two) as is done in DWC means flood sys reservoirs are easy to access for filling, draining & cleaning.
Nah, I just think funny shit. Full-time baron, comedy is merely a hobby.
It'll take every bit of 7-10 days of proper watering before you see roots popping out of the bottoms of your existing RW cubes. Make sure your nutes are about 1400 @ 5.8. pH has got to be right. Once new roots start forming, the distortions in the foliage will resolve.
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate (pronounced 'miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiite'), if Outback Steakhouse were really Australian, they'd serve nothing but kangaroo, emu & wombat off a sizzling Holden bumper bar, with a yummy sauce made from bugs scraped off the windscreen.Are you implying that Outback Steakhouse is NOT Australian? I will inform you, sir, that they speak with accents and say things like "mate" and "mum" all the time on their commercials. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
It'd be really impressive if those twats actually hired even ONE Aussie to do the ads, cos that'd be the only Aussie they have ever employed.
Not like Americans would actually know if a faked Aus accent were used- after all, you fuckers think French fries are French!
That's right, once there's roots out of the cube and knitted into the pellets, the RW cube is fully extraneous.
diggitydank420
Well-Known Member
I'll admit it, I skimmed through the last 2 pages just because of all the bickering going on.
What I do with mine is put them all in a bucket with a grate to hold them down, soak them for a week and changing the water daily. Seems to do the trick.
Al B. Fuct
once had a dog named
Sorry about that; I would have preferred it didn't happen, but sometimes it's harder than others to beat a clue into some folks.
I can see how that process would leach the salts out, but how does that get rid of all the little bits of old root matter? What sterilising agent do you use?
I have 96 plants in flower and 10 mums at any given time. I put 23 new clones in to flower every 2 weeks and take out the same number for harvest. Each of my pots is about 4L, but I only fill about 3L with media. 23 x 3L = 69L of media every 2 weeks, either to clean, sterilise & re-use- or dispose of and use new, sterile media. I am a stoned slacker, so I chose to use disposable, one-shot media.
diggitydank420
Well-Known Member
Well shit, I don't use half the amount you do. I think I have a 12L bag of hydroton and I haven't even used half of it yet!
Whatever works for you, my man.
Kludge
Well-Known Member
Oy! Cranks bloak. Bob's your uncle!