GOLDBERG71
Well-Known Member
Yes hydrated lime.
PH WTF!!
- Thread starter Rastaman85
- Start date
GOLDBERG71
Well-Known Member
I can't tell you a thing about that soil. What I can tell you is that I make my nutes at a PH of 6.5 PERIOD and I don't add ANYTHING other than perlite to my pro mix. I can't see anything wrong with your plant. But I'm using my phone. If this is your first grow I'd suggest adjusting to 6.5 and sticking with it. Most soils are made so you don't need to adjust them. If your plants are showing signs of a problem I'd start with the nutrient levels and assume the PH is fine. Unless you believe it's a soil PH problem. Like I said before the only home test is a quality soil meter. The other method is collecting soil and taking to a state agency or college to get tested and they'll break it down and tell you exactly what to amend it with NEXT time. But that won't help you this cycle. Now if you've been feeding at a different PH you're in a position where you now have more possible causes to your problem. Which makes it harder to figure out. Because when the soil PH gets to far from acceptable range the soil will lockup. That means that even though the nutrients the plant needs are in the soil they AREN'T available to the plant. Beginning signs of this are close to a nitrogen deficiency. This is why I pay attention to details like PH. It makes it much easier to diagnose problems.
If your plant looks healthy and this was a rush to worry. I'd do nothing now. The following feeding I'd let it dry out a bit more than usual and then feed at 1/2 strength at a PH of 6.5 and make sure you get a fair amount of run off. Semi flush so to speak. From then on I'd go back to normal feeding and always PH to 6.5.
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A quick comment since you already have the dolomite.
2Tbl/gallon of mix (~4 liters?) applied as a top dress (scratched into the surface if you can), will take care of your pH with regular waterings. Give it about two weeks to start having an effect and next time, add it to the mix @1cup/cf.
The other nutes it contains is Mg. Sorta covers Cal/Mag issues all in one shot. Pretty simple, no?
It will get your soil pH to ~6.8 and bring any liquids to that pH. Liquids only affect pH as they are passing through the soil. The soil's pH controls everything.
HTH
Wet
2Tbl/gallon of mix (~4 liters?) applied as a top dress (scratched into the surface if you can), will take care of your pH with regular waterings. Give it about two weeks to start having an effect and next time, add it to the mix @1cup/cf.
The other nutes it contains is Mg. Sorta covers Cal/Mag issues all in one shot. Pretty simple, no?
It will get your soil pH to ~6.8 and bring any liquids to that pH. Liquids only affect pH as they are passing through the soil. The soil's pH controls everything.
HTH
Wet
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
I'm saying I used to be anal retentive about the whole deal, then i stopped measuring pH, and the shit hasn't hit the fan yet.
My well water is 0.8ec, 7.4pH if i recall correctly. At the most, I mix about one teaspoon of maxsea per gallon of well water, which used to.get to around 2.0ec, including the well water, and pH around 6.8ish. Thats it. My nutes dont have cal or mag, my well water has got enough. My medium is promix. Sometimes i add ewc or compost but the last few batches the compost was frozen so just promix, well water, and maxsea. If i remember i'll do a handful of gypsum or oyster shell meal but i'm positive my last batches are only promix hp.
When i did hydro, i didnt check pH after a while either. I would mix my nutes at a specific ratio, then titrate until my meter read 1000ppm. That'd set the pH right where it needed to be... I was using GH flora series, only the bases.
Maybe i'm lucky, and i'm feeding a higher pH to a medium thats known to be acidic, and between that and my wet/dry cycles i'm riding the line?
I live life on the wild side, my blu lab combo meter is collecting dust in it's box
GOLDBERG71
Well-Known Member
lol I'm using RO water PPM 0 PH neutral. And my pro mix is as clean as the day I bought it. I just cut it 50/50
I love my blue lab combo. And I bought the soil meter when I was testing the additives I mentioned above. So I know exactly where I was with each additive. Now it's collecting dust and I've learned adding nothing is the easiest. I haven't noticed a difference. But if someone asked I'd recommend hardwood ash over both types of lime. But I use nothing more than my combo meter. I've always got a spare probe. Just like the spare light bulbs.
I love my blue lab combo. And I bought the soil meter when I was testing the additives I mentioned above. So I know exactly where I was with each additive. Now it's collecting dust and I've learned adding nothing is the easiest. I haven't noticed a difference. But if someone asked I'd recommend hardwood ash over both types of lime. But I use nothing more than my combo meter. I've always got a spare probe. Just like the spare light bulbs.
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Budley Doright
Well-Known Member
My well water changes with the seasons (EC, PH), and it's caught me off guard a few times (hydro). As for dirt it's pretty much left alone to do its thing and no salt based nutes.I'm saying I used to be anal retentive about the whole deal, then i stopped measuring pH, and the shit hasn't hit the fan yet.
My well water is 0.8ec, 7.4pH if i recall correctly. At the most, I mix about one teaspoon of maxsea per gallon of well water, which used to.get to around 2.0ec, including the well water, and pH around 6.8ish. Thats it. My nutes dont have cal or mag, my well water has got enough. My medium is promix. Sometimes i add ewc or compost but the last few batches the compost was frozen so just promix, well water, and maxsea. If i remember i'll do a handful of gypsum or oyster shell meal but i'm positive my last batches are only promix hp.
When i did hydro, i didnt check pH after a while either. I would mix my nutes at a specific ratio, then titrate until my meter read 1000ppm. That'd set the pH right where it needed to be... I was using GH flora series, only the bases.
Maybe i'm lucky, and i'm feeding a higher pH to a medium thats known to be acidic, and between that and my wet/dry cycles i'm riding the line?
I live life on the wild side, my blu lab combo meter is collecting dust in it's box
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
Somebody has a sick looking plant and they check the ppm and ph of their soil runoff and they are 2000 and 7.0. I would have a pretty good idea of what is wrong with their plant without knowing anything else. It is an easy thing to check and can certainly provide some directional information on the issue(s). Your mileage may vary.
With a slow watering, you will get enough contact with everything to give you an idea of what is going on. Just how acidic you would need to measure more carefully.
GOLDBERG71
Well-Known Member
LOL. it would probably already be dead. That's easy to diagnose. Check your mileage. How many times have you seen a race car miss the checkered flag because it ran out of gas?! I'm sure they didn't calculate being 1/2 mile short. But they felt real brave until the engine sputtered and the race was over.
Sorry, I didn't bother reading everyone's responses. I've been using pro-mix for 20 years and can quickly tell you the way to success.
Mix: 1 bale 3.8 cu. ft pro mix, 3.5 cups of dolomite lime, and a cu. ft (more or less) of perlite. Nothing more is necessary in the mix. Mix very well, with the above I can get around 11-12 4 gallon pots filled to the top.
I use Botanicare Pure Blend Pro nutes, but applied on a lower level than what's recommended. I only use R.O. water- it's very helpful to know you have a clean product to begin. pH of fertilized water should NEVER be above 6.5, EVER!!!! But 6.3-6.5 is perfect for promix. No need to check the water flushing out and with my program, you'll never have to flush your pots outs either because of fertilizer toxicity.
I water every 2-3 days, but don't let the pots dry out to far. I think it's bad for the soil. Water temps going in should be around 62-68 degrees, to warm and too cold will shock the plants. Many of the pH/ppm pens are crap, and just aren't accurate enough. It's one of the keys to a healthy crop that people don't take seriously enough. Buy a really good one, not one of the Ebay specials.
A ppm meter is also important, as most company's ferts application rates are way too high. My rough rates are as follows:
young plants 200-300 ppm
veg 400-800 ppm
flower 900-1300 ppm
But let the plants tell you what they need by watching them closely. Burnt tips mean over fertilized and lighter green plants means under. Sativa plants normally like a lesser amount of ferts than indica.
Lastly, no one ever said it's inexpensive to grow good pot. To really hone it in, you need the proper equipment and supplies which often are not cheap. Look at some of my grows, you'll see I try to keep it easy and simple. And you can get very good results with minimal effort with a little practice and know how.....but take no short cuts, just follow precisely.
Mix: 1 bale 3.8 cu. ft pro mix, 3.5 cups of dolomite lime, and a cu. ft (more or less) of perlite. Nothing more is necessary in the mix. Mix very well, with the above I can get around 11-12 4 gallon pots filled to the top.
I use Botanicare Pure Blend Pro nutes, but applied on a lower level than what's recommended. I only use R.O. water- it's very helpful to know you have a clean product to begin. pH of fertilized water should NEVER be above 6.5, EVER!!!! But 6.3-6.5 is perfect for promix. No need to check the water flushing out and with my program, you'll never have to flush your pots outs either because of fertilizer toxicity.
I water every 2-3 days, but don't let the pots dry out to far. I think it's bad for the soil. Water temps going in should be around 62-68 degrees, to warm and too cold will shock the plants. Many of the pH/ppm pens are crap, and just aren't accurate enough. It's one of the keys to a healthy crop that people don't take seriously enough. Buy a really good one, not one of the Ebay specials.
A ppm meter is also important, as most company's ferts application rates are way too high. My rough rates are as follows:
young plants 200-300 ppm
veg 400-800 ppm
flower 900-1300 ppm
But let the plants tell you what they need by watching them closely. Burnt tips mean over fertilized and lighter green plants means under. Sativa plants normally like a lesser amount of ferts than indica.
Lastly, no one ever said it's inexpensive to grow good pot. To really hone it in, you need the proper equipment and supplies which often are not cheap. Look at some of my grows, you'll see I try to keep it easy and simple. And you can get very good results with minimal effort with a little practice and know how.....but take no short cuts, just follow precisely.
Rastaman85
Active Member
So next grow mix in some dolomite lime with soil & perlite? This grow just give med flush plenty run off at 6.5 should be ok? Sorry I'm at work can read all better later. Thanks
Rastaman85
Active Member
So mix 2 tbl spoons dolomite per gallon and add to each plant I have 4 in 11l pots. Some say soil ph doesn't matter some say it does? Bit confused. Just not sure what to do. I Thot if I added ph6.5 every watering the runoff wud b close I see some saying runoff doesn't matter. I would like the soil to be correct ph if I can. Just bit of a noob. Worth getting a soil ph tester? Won't be here for days. Just flush 1/2 strength with ph6.5 & all should be good or use the dolomite? I just ain't sure. Sorry for the hassle guys. Just want full potential as u can understand.
The lime takes a good long time to break down and do some good in the soil. That's why you apply it early- to give it a chance over time to be useful. Adding it with each watering is less helpful, but better than nothing. If your soil is messed up as we speak, do a thorough flushing with slightly fertilized water, ph around 6.3-6.4. Give the plants a chance to dry out well, than continue with the above plan. Forget the soil ph testers, they don't work and are a waste of money. In twenty plus years of growing, I have never tested the runoff of water out of my pots. EVER! Under fertilize too and slowly build it back up. Unhealthy plants don't need a high dose of fertilizer they can't use. So start low, and build up as they become healthier.
Rastaman85
Active Member
The plants were looking yellowing that's why I
Damn I just bought a soil tester! Thanks so much dude I really appreciate taking the time to help! I don't know how messed up my soil is as I've been wedding ph6.5-6.8 from the start. Just the runoff worried me. I shall flush each 11l pot twice the volume water? Thanks man. Maybe I looked too much into the runoff? Just panicked!
Any ph over 6.5 will screw up the soil......the problem is plants don't absorb most nutes over the 6.5 level so they sit in the soil and toxify it. Ferts are really just salts, and when the concentration gets to high, it screws up the soil balance.
You are supposed to flush with 4x the pot size, but 2x will help no doubt.
You are supposed to flush with 4x the pot size, but 2x will help no doubt.
SSHZ is pretty much spot on with the pro mix, lime and perlite.
I've never used pro mix, or any bagged soil for that matter. It simply did not exist when I was taught how to make a mix from scratch (1972). However, Premier brand peat moss (makers of pro mix), did and have been using it for over 40 years.
pH is VERY important in soil and anyone who says otherwise is a fool. It is also extremely easy to get right from the start and stay right for the entire grow. Simply add the 1cup/cf of mix and put it out of your mind. No pH'ng anything going in or, checking pH. Simply a non issue.
I'm doing organics now, but did chems for 30+ years. Both with the same mix, pretty much what SSHZ detailed with the pro mix. Lime was always added no matter what the nutrient source. For me, it is the second thing added after the peat moss in the wheelbarrow, followed by whatever else is going in there. Perlite is last along with water to wet it all down and get stuff working.
Adding it before use is by far the best, but the top dressing of 2tbl/gal of mix will provide some benefit. Way more than not adding any. BTW, just a single top dressing, don't keep adding more. One application/grow is usually all that's needed. If you reuse your soil, you can add more when you reamend before the next grow.
Soil pH testers that actually work start at ~$200, so if you got one of those $10 testers it is worse than useless due to inaccurate readings. Do not trust it in the least.
Hope some of this helps.
Wet
Rastaman85
Active Member
Ok cool. I always Thot it was 6.5-6.8. I'll aim for 6.4-6.5 now on. I've filled a 50ltr bucket with water to let chlorine evaporate so will do 2 tomorrow & 2 next day. Thanks again man. Great help.
Big help! Thanks dude! I use biobizz light and bout 30% perlite. Grow 4 at a time so I'll just add lime to each mix when transplanting or just initial soil? Sorry for being a pain I'm just keen to learn more and more. I want quality not settle for "its ok"! Thanks again
Rastaman85
Active Member
Everyone's been so helpful! I ain't ass licking but thanks guys!
GOLDBERG71
Well-Known Member
My first guess would be lack of N for plants that start to show yellowish leaves. Unless you've gone so far off track you've caused soil problems. So I'd suggest adding a little more N to your solution as well as adjusting the PH to 6.5 after mixing but before applying. At some point you're going to have to choose who to believe. Finding someone who uses your soil would be helpful.
But I can tell you I had this same problem and I thought it was the soil. It took me months of trying (D lime, hydrated lime, and H wood ash). IT WAS ALL A WASTE OF TIME. I'm not sure where you are in the cycle of your plant. But I can tell you that my yellowing ALWAYS showed it face after I forced flowering but before the 4th week was over. Trust me when I say this. It took a long time for me to figure out that bloom nutes are deficient in N. So while I was following the regime recommended from the company I thought how can that be the problem. And I looked everywhere else. I bought the soil meter. And tried many different types of soil additives. It was a great lesson and test. But also s complete was of time.
I've since learned NOT to switch to bloom nutes on day 1 of flower. As a matter of fact I use my veg nutes alone UNTIL the plant has stopped stretching and started to show little flowers. At this point I start lowering the veg nutes and adding bloom nutes. Each feeding less veg and more bloom. I don't fully work veg nutes out until the end of week 5. Because I've learned I have less than 4 weeks with nice green plants with the amount of N in BLOOM nutes. I hope this helps but I'm done preaching. I can't be clearer or provide more detail. And as I said I've had this problem searched for solutions in all the wrong places and now my plants look wonderful from start to finish. WITHOUT D LIME, H LIME, or HARDWOOD ASH! I just open the bale mix in perlite and wet with pure h2o.
It would be helpful if the nute companies figured out their bloom products lacked enough N EARLY in flower. But I've proven it and if you search this site you'll find I'm steering you in the right direction.
One more thing. It's been my experience that once the yellow starts in flower there is no reversing it. You can stop it from getting worse. But once a leaf has gone yellow they're not getting luscious green leaf again (in flower). Veg is different then if caught early it will reverse because at that point the plant is storing its nutrients in the leaves not using it.
Peace and good luck. You can private message me or you can follow others advice.
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To further the conversation, most people who switch off to a plain bloom fertilizer when they turn the light back to 12/12 will have early yellowing- pot plants use a lot of N, more than most plants. Today's bloom fertilizer don't have enough N in them so you have to supplement a bit for a few weeks.
Here's what I do. The first two weeks of flowering I continue to use veg fertilizer. Then in week 3 and 4 I use veg/bloom at a 50/50 rate. Then in weeks 5, 6, and 7 I use just bloom fert. The last two weeks nothing. I should also mention I always use a cal/mag additive, currently Botanicare Cal/Mag at 10ml per gallon since I use r.o. water. If you use regular tap water, 5ml should be ok.
Below is my current grow of Green Poison in flowering.....see, no yellowing in flowering. I have a current G.P. grow going on RIU if you want to follow it along, it may be helpful.
Here's what I do. The first two weeks of flowering I continue to use veg fertilizer. Then in week 3 and 4 I use veg/bloom at a 50/50 rate. Then in weeks 5, 6, and 7 I use just bloom fert. The last two weeks nothing. I should also mention I always use a cal/mag additive, currently Botanicare Cal/Mag at 10ml per gallon since I use r.o. water. If you use regular tap water, 5ml should be ok.
Below is my current grow of Green Poison in flowering.....see, no yellowing in flowering. I have a current G.P. grow going on RIU if you want to follow it along, it may be helpful.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Not doing organic are we?
In organic - no need to adjust or - even check the soils pH.
Now, I've never been a big Promix fan or any big fan of media's that are soil substitutes as it's "kinda" synthetic use only stuff.....Give me EWC and compost in there some where.....They do run with the needed pH monitoring rule! I have to interject something here though.......The idea that 6.5 is THE spot for pH all run long and that a tic lower is alright is kinda malarkey! ANY type of soil mix that you run with a pH value that is 6.5, should be considered a "soil" grow. Soil grows should be run with a VEG. pH of 6.5 and a BLOOM pH of 6.7..... And there's MY 2 cents on that! I found that if I keep any "soil & synthetic" grow at those levels of all ingoing being pH'ed to. I have happier and better yielding plants! The minor shift in bloom reduces/slows/stalls early or even what some might call "natural" yellowing by keeping N more available during that time....
There are nutrient makers (many), whose formulations "hide" a higher N concentration then they list up front to attempt to do the same thing - slow down that excess P yellowing....It doesn't work so well that way. Many of them "hide" that N in supplements in varying degree's that all add up too! You DON'T need that! pH in bloom to 6.7......
HOLD IT! NOT a good idea to use hydrated lime!!! Too strong and easy to screw the pooch FAST with it!....I'd stick with your wood ash - and be careful with that too! It's easier to add more then to have to back off with damaged plants!!!!
So then - rule of thumb for synthetics is to pH all in-going in veg to 6.5 and in bloom 6.7 and forget about the pH of the media!
I know bug you love to do the run off thing.....not accurate and time consuming for newbies bro!
Now then, OP,,,,why in the HELL are you going to "flush" anything? Have you built up a salt condition? Dumping multiple times the pot size in water through it will only further screw with your pH if it's really the problem.....Just water any overage condition out with plain pH'ed water......maybe a little Kelp extract and a Ca/Mg would help here too......depends on how bad your problem is..
Your plants looked low N to me.....feed them!