bassman999
Well-Known Member
Nice!
Top bin COB comparison
- Thread starter SupraSPL
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wietefras
Well-Known Member
Bare aluminum corrodes in no-time. That's why mirrors have glass on them to protect it.
A MIRO coating is basically a mirror with the thinnest glass they can get on bare aluminum. First they put a layer of 100% pure aluminum onto the base material (also aluminum) by way of electrolysis. Then they move the material through silica oxide vapor and let that deposit a thin layer of glass on the bare aluminium. Then another layer of titanium oxide is deposited in a second vapor oven. For the MIRO-Silver coating they add silver onto the base layer to increase reflectance even more.
Perhaps MIRO coated led reflectors would work better than the white ones?
I'm building a 100cmx200cm grow room and mirrors would cost €120. That doesn't seem overly expensive to me. Especially not when compared to spending $2500 for a led fixture. That's for a 50cm high strip though. I'm thinking of only doing a 50cm high strip where the light usually hits the wall during flowering. Below that I will be using something more diffuse to make sure the light doesn't make it all the way to the floor. I was thinking about using Orca foil for that bit. Easy to apply and they claim easy to clean.
The guy who tested this found 2mm mirrors, which cuts down on the absorption of the glass.
BTW I'm not saying mirrors are "best". Clearly they lose light through absorption of the glass, but it's a lot less than people assume. Mirrors are easy to clean and send the light towards the plants a lot better than the diffuse materials that people usually have on their walls.
Smooth mirror foils reflect significantly better than actual mirrors. However you have to make sure to get them on nice and flat and that's where I had troubles. Cleaning the foil wasn't much of a success for me either. Mirrors are very easy to clean and would last pretty much forever.
BuddyColas
Well-Known Member
It’s kind of like in the boxing and MMA world. It’s a fight “the people” want to see, but it might not happen. The two of them fighting it out at 700ma and 500ma…it would be interesting. I am one of “the people.” So the Champ, the CXB3590, talks a lot a trash and has many fans and victories, but only a head-to-head fight at low currents is going to tell!
If I want to know bad enough, I could order 2 Vero 29s and 1 CXB3590 top bin for a 3 COB bar I want to build, build it and size the heatsink to run about 50 watts each, then dial it down and find out for myself. Only money holding me back!
And my take on the bare walls. I use Panda film around the entire perimeter and change it out every other grow. Reflective walls with bare cobs make a BIG difference! I run the cobs 6-8" above the canopy and let the Panda film do the rest. Just my experience.
KarmaPaymentPlan
Well-Known Member
the mirror is very reflective so only the light that is directed towards the mirror at the appropriate angle makes it back to the plant. the sensor from my understanding reads best from a specific direction so that probably explains why you can get a better reading but is that crazy reflected lighting that much more beneficial then the diffused? i like throwing the light where i want it rather then bouncing it around the room
Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
Oh snap lol. It's going to be hard to keep up with this tech over the next year or so. Knowledge that the death blow of hid is just a matter of time will fuel a big surge of r&d money going into led tech period IMHO. Don't get me wrong it's already happening in industrial and other lighting but the horticulture sector is going to be getting it's attention soon.
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robincnn
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the test @SupraSPL
Did you do any data correction in your chart based on Apogee correction values. Yes it will be nice to check if apogee gave correction for V1 or v1.2
Looking forward to the Vero29 V2 3000 results as well. 3000K in CXB vs 3000K in Vero 29
When you test 3000K and with 3000K , let me know if you think Vero is a little more blue/cool than CXB
The results look similar to what I saw in my tests. The slightly different spectrum of cxb and vero gives us a small error. But still the results are still very useful.
Looks like Vero 29 performs better than CXA
At 50 watts the Vero 29 looks on par with CXB 3070 BB
At 50 watts 3590 3500K CD gave about 6.7% more light than the Vero 29 4000K
From my 3500K test for 3590cd and vero 29 on page 2. Our results do not differ much
We shall decide the WINNER after you test Vero 29 3000K
Did you do any data correction in your chart based on Apogee correction values. Yes it will be nice to check if apogee gave correction for V1 or v1.2
Looking forward to the Vero29 V2 3000 results as well. 3000K in CXB vs 3000K in Vero 29
When you test 3000K and with 3000K , let me know if you think Vero is a little more blue/cool than CXB
The results look similar to what I saw in my tests. The slightly different spectrum of cxb and vero gives us a small error. But still the results are still very useful.
Looks like Vero 29 performs better than CXA
At 50 watts the Vero 29 looks on par with CXB 3070 BB
At 50 watts 3590 3500K CD gave about 6.7% more light than the Vero 29 4000K
From my 3500K test for 3590cd and vero 29 on page 2. Our results do not differ much
Under driving vero gives better efficiency too. Under driving CXB can be expensive. Vero 29 is only $28
We shall decide the WINNER after you test Vero 29 3000K
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Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
Sure lol. As soon as we get all excited cree will drop another bin lmao. Or CXC.Thanks for the test @SupraSPL
Did you do any data correction in your chart based on Apogee correction values. Yes it will be nice to check if apogee gave correction for V1 or v1.2
Looking forward to the Vero29 V2 3000 results as well. 3000K in CXB vs 3000K in Vero 29
When you test 3000K and with 3000K , let me know if you think Vero is a little more blue/cool than CXB
The results look similar to what I saw in my tests. The slightly different spectrum of cxb and vero gives us a small error. But still the results are still very useful.
Looks like Vero 29 performs better than CXA
At 50 watts the Vero 29 looks on par with CXB 3070 BB
At 50 watts 3590 3500K CD gave about 6.7% more light than the Vero 29 4000K
From my 3500K test for 3590cd and vero 29 on page 2. Our results do not differ much
Under driving vero gives better efficiency too. Under driving CXB can be expensive. Vero 29 is only $28
View attachment 3582702View attachment 3582706
We shall decide the WINNER after you test Vero 29 3000K
Also I wonder if the top bin gap narrows after everything is to operating temps. I'm guessing so......
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stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
You forgot the holders ...
Ok ,maybe they cost about $2-$3 each (for US growers ,not for the Eu ones ....)
still the add to the price ..
Cree COBS are the best ,no doupt about that ,in terms of efficiency ...
Still ,regarding my "book" ,efficiency alone ,does not make a great COB ..
And trust me ,my " book " has quite strict " rules " and "standards" ...
Yet ...
If those guys from Flip Chip Opto ,are willing to do a good job ,
"out of the main stream " of the solid state horticultural industry ,
then ,I do have serious doubts ,if I will ever bother with Cree or Bridgelux again ...
Afterall ,the LED COBs, these two renown firms do manufacture ,
are intended for human vision ,thus all the R&D about 'em ,
is done about how to make better lights for humans ...
We use them ,because they can grow healthy and productive plants ,too , ( as a "bonus"....) ..
They seem to grow plants ,better than any monochromatic combination of ...lots of tiny LEDs ....
That's why ..
But hey ..
A LED COB for growing CANNABIS L. SATIVA species is a DEDICATED device for a certain purpose alone ...
I want to trust ,that they will be far superior of any 3000°K or 4000°K white light .....
Normally ,these belong to a living room and a bathroom ,respectively ..
Into the growroom ,is gonna be hangin' the "special " one ..
The,tailored for tha job,one ...
Dreams ...
Well ,sometimes ,they do come true ,you know ..
From "white train " to the .......uhm..dunno ...
I 've to think about the name ...
Still,I'm always prepared for the leap ..
The older I get ,the more prepared ..
Peace ,brothers ...
Peace.
robincnn
Well-Known Member
Looks like you can buy more Vero 29's with the same $$ and you can actually get a better efficiency than CXB on same budget.
I saw your post @stardustsailor with 5000K Center and 640 around it. Great idea.
If Flip Chip Opto has a smaller COB with 4000K and 640nm 1:1 ratio
Might work great for full cycle. We might have to include them TOP COB soon
Most Optics should work fine with the Flip Chip Opto design having red and white mix.
In the photo below we have 2 reds and 1 blue in center. each separated by 20mm. 20mm+20mm LES simulation. So with small LES the Kb120 100mm glass lens and reflectors will mix the colors just fine except for the corners.
I saw your post @stardustsailor with 5000K Center and 640 around it. Great idea.
If Flip Chip Opto has a smaller COB with 4000K and 640nm 1:1 ratio
Might work great for full cycle. We might have to include them TOP COB soonMost Optics should work fine with the Flip Chip Opto design having red and white mix.
In the photo below we have 2 reds and 1 blue in center. each separated by 20mm. 20mm+20mm LES simulation. So with small LES the Kb120 100mm glass lens and reflectors will mix the colors just fine except for the corners.
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
50W passive cooled temperature test to try and confirm the efficiency. Ambient was 69F, the heatsink stabilized at 185.2F. The heatsink (3.5"X6") was hung horizontally in a large room with no air movement until the temp stabilized. Amps and volts were monitored to make sure dissipation stayed at 50W (Mean Well HLN-80H-36A dimmable driver). Thermometer was a Taylor probe
CXB3590 3500K CD @ 50W = 169F (76.1C)
CXB3070 3500K BB @ 50W = 185F (85C)
Vero29 4000K 80CRi V2 @ 50W = 185.2F (85.1C)
CXB3590 3500K CD @ 50W = 169F (76.1C)
CXB3070 3500K BB @ 50W = 185F (85C)
Vero29 4000K 80CRi V2 @ 50W = 185.2F (85.1C)
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
And something else ...
I can understand the existence of "Vf " or "chromaticity " binning ..
If I was the ( lucky bastard) owner of a hotel in Hawaii ,then if some 4000°K COBs ,
of the hotels' exterior lighting were fried ,I had to obtain the same Vf and/or chromaticity bins of
the 4000 K COBs ,in order not to disturb the whole atmosphere and make my 5 star hotel
look like a fuckin' circus ...
Of course the price is the SAME ,for every Vf or Chromaticity bin !
( Still todays LED chip wafer manufacturing techniques are far superior than ...yesterdays ...
Let alone a few years back ...
So ,chromaticity and Vf binning -soon i guess -they will be extinct .. )
But " output power binning " ...?
Different price for different power bins ...?
"Rare bins " ?
Outrageous ..
The dark ages of lighting ..
I'm sorry ..That's how I feel about it ..
Treated like a child and being stolen ..
"NOoooo,the cherry taste lollipop is more expensive ....
You see ,there are only 4 cherry lollies inside each box of 20.!! "
Yuck Fou ,mister ...
I know that you can already make a box of 20 cherry lollies ...
At the same cost and labor ,wi the freakin' lemon lollies ..
Or the cola lollies ...
Candies Of Bluffing ...
I can understand the existence of "Vf " or "chromaticity " binning ..
If I was the ( lucky bastard) owner of a hotel in Hawaii ,then if some 4000°K COBs ,
of the hotels' exterior lighting were fried ,I had to obtain the same Vf and/or chromaticity bins of
the 4000 K COBs ,in order not to disturb the whole atmosphere and make my 5 star hotel
look like a fuckin' circus ...
Of course the price is the SAME ,for every Vf or Chromaticity bin !
( Still todays LED chip wafer manufacturing techniques are far superior than ...yesterdays ...
Let alone a few years back ...
So ,chromaticity and Vf binning -soon i guess -they will be extinct .. )
But " output power binning " ...?
Different price for different power bins ...?
"Rare bins " ?
Outrageous ..
The dark ages of lighting ..
I'm sorry ..That's how I feel about it ..
Treated like a child and being stolen ..
"NOoooo,the cherry taste lollipop is more expensive ....
You see ,there are only 4 cherry lollies inside each box of 20.!! "
Yuck Fou ,mister ...
I know that you can already make a box of 20 cherry lollies ...
At the same cost and labor ,wi the freakin' lemon lollies ..
Or the cola lollies ...
Candies Of Bluffing ...
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BuddyColas
Well-Known Member
*Make that $24.38 from Digikey!Thanks for the test @SupraSPL
Did you do any data correction in your chart based on Apogee correction values. Yes it will be nice to check if apogee gave correction for V1 or v1.2
Looking forward to the Vero29 V2 3000 results as well. 3000K in CXB vs 3000K in Vero 29
When you test 3000K and with 3000K , let me know if you think Vero is a little more blue/cool than CXB
The results look similar to what I saw in my tests. The slightly different spectrum of cxb and vero gives us a small error. But still the results are still very useful.
Looks like Vero 29 performs better than CXA
At 50 watts the Vero 29 looks on par with CXB 3070 BB
At 50 watts 3590 3500K CD gave about 6.7% more light than the Vero 29 4000K
From my 3500K test for 3590cd and vero 29 on page 2. Our results do not differ much
Under driving vero gives better efficiency too. Under driving CXB can be expensive. Vero 29 is only $28
View attachment 3582702View attachment 3582706
We shall decide the WINNER after you test Vero 29 3000K
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
Yes for the 4000K Vero I divided the PPFD by .948, which gave the numbers a 5.2% boost. Something I did note about the 4000K 80 CRi, it is a really great color for human vision purposes
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BuddyColas
Well-Known Member
Thanks so much for doing this test. Your credibility and cool head are greatly appreciated. The Champ is still the Champ!
If I could have gotten it to you discreetly, I would have sent you them or given you a Digikey gift card. We are a little more laid back here in Alaska as we are a recreational state now. You just can’t be to careful most other places.
Thanks again.
SupraSPL
Well-Known Member
Good call, 10% Vero29 V2 price drop, that must have been in just the past several days too.
new prices added in
stardustsailor
Well-Known Member
Supra ,what do you mean by "Something I did not about the 4000K 80 CRi, it is a really great color for human vision purposes " ?
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