Donald Trump

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Not GOP

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And you do realize that over the past 30 years we've resettled over 3 million refugees, right? 100,000 refugees we can resettle easily, and US mayors have signed open letters stating that they're ready to bring in more refugees.
Most of the Syrian refugees being taken in throughout the world have been military aged males. Not many women and children. None of them have been vetted to find out if the "rebels" who hate Assad are sympathizers with ISIS, or some other terrorist organization.

Other countries have been finding out the hard way.. Taking in Syrian "refugees" is a bad idea.


 

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
Most of the Syrian refugees being taken in throughout the world have been military aged males. Not many women and children. None of them have been vetted to find out if the "rebels" who hate Assad are sympathizers with ISIS, or some other terrorist organization.

Other countries have been finding out the hard way.. Taking in Syrian "refugees" is a bad idea.


"Military aged males" is the stupidest argument ever because a lot of them have two choices: 1) Fight for Assad and get executed if captured 2) Fight for the Rebels and get executed if captured. So, a lot of them are facing death whichever side they fight for, and many of them instead flee. Most of the people that are actually coming over are educated.

Also, I guess you don't remember the two Iraqi men that came here as refugees and were arrested for terrorism due to the FBI and military's fingerprint database. Their fingerprints were tagged from IEDs placed in Iraq and now they're in Federal prison charged with terrorism.

Did we ever wonder if any of the Vietnamese coming over were VC or NVA fighters? Or if any Bosnians or Serbians were war criminals? No. We didn't, and we can vet them very easily. The problem with other countries is that they're not being vetted, or they're being sent to places where they're absolutely useless and they can't do a thing for their own economic good. However it seems to you like every Syrian male must be a member of ISIS, right?
 

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
"Military aged males" is the stupidest argument ever because a lot of them have two choices: 1) Fight for Assad and get executed if captured 2) Fight for the Rebels and get executed if captured. So, a lot of them are facing death whichever side they fight for, and many of them instead flee. Most of the people that are actually coming over are educated.

Also, I guess you don't remember the two Iraqi men that came here as refugees and were arrested for terrorism due to the FBI and military's fingerprint database. Their fingerprints were tagged from IEDs placed in Iraq and now they're in Federal prison charged with terrorism.

Did we ever wonder if any of the Vietnamese coming over were VC or NVA fighters? Or if any Bosnians or Serbians were war criminals? No. We didn't, and we can vet them very easily. The problem with other countries is that they're not being vetted, or they're being sent to places where they're absolutely useless and they can't do a thing for their own economic good. However it seems to you like every Syrian male must be a member of ISIS, right?
How are they being vetted? By the UN? lol. Seriously how would you possibly know who is slipping through the cracks? keep them out, then we stay safe. plain and simple
 

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
How are they being vetted? By the UN? lol. Seriously how would you possibly know who is slipping through the cracks?
State Department and FBI, duh, but let's ignore the fact that I somehow doubt all of them are going to be some ISIS army marching through the US and taking the Capitol building, but rather the opposite: People who are trying to flee a brutal civil war.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
time will tell, but the Clinton machine can be a powerful force. Hopefully he can continue to convince them that he's not a threat, and stay off their radar. He's done a good job of it so far in the debate. Burn and Shrillary seem to be getting along very well.
Again they've known each other and have worked together for 25 years..not everyone is an enemy of the other..can't change voting records and only one will stand at the end of the day..although I secretly snicker every time I think Hillary really thought she was just going to get the nomination just because of the deal with Obama in 2008.
 

schuylaar

Well-Known Member
During the Reagan administration liberal scientists were still stuck on their peer-reviewed "scientific evidence" from the 1970's. Claiming global cooling was inevitable, and our entire planet was doomed for another ice age. Which according to their calculations, should have been here by now. So where is it?
Science is not an exact science..they also said we'd have hover boards and flying deloreans by now.
 

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
Bull crap. Obama's state department isn't vetting any of these people. How could they? It would be damn near impossible
The State Department; the Department of Homeland Security; the National Counterterrorism Center; the Terrorist Screening Center; the FBI, the intelligence community and the Department of Defense.
 

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
The State Department; the Department of Homeland Security; the National Counterterrorism Center; the Terrorist Screening Center; the FBI, the intelligence community and the Department of Defense.
All of them together wouldn't know if a shaved bearded Syrian was a moderate, or an Islamic State activist

 
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pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
All of them together wouldn't know if a shaved bearded Syrian was a moderate, or an Islamic State activist

Right, and once again, every Syrian refugee is a member of Daesh? Is that what you're asserting? Did you know that completely closing our borders to Syrian refugees is more detrimental in the long run to our national security rather than monitoring the refugees when they arrive like we've done with Iraqi and Afghani refugees? Moreover sending them back to Syria would either be a death sentence to them - which is illegal under international law, or would only serve to radicalize them against the United States. Once again, another very poor foreign policy example from Donnie Chump.

Let's also consider the upper estimate of ISIL's numbers is 257,900 spread through Syria and Iraq, and that 9 million Syrians have left their homes, with 3 million going to neighboring countries, 150,000 Syrians have resettled in Europe with an additional 33,000 being accepted I somehow doubt that 10,000 ISIL members are going to show up in the United States.
 

thepenofareadywriter

Well-Known Member
It's a myth. Want to know how I know this? I did volunteer work with illegal immigrants - assisting them to apply for citizenship and labor violations that they're put through.

@Padawanbater2 That was hilarious, @Not GOP completely proved your point while trying to dismiss it and couldn't even figure out what he was doing.

Also @Not GOP you do realize what you cited about illegals is complete and utter BS, right? Kind of like the 250,000 Syrian refugees that Obama is going to be bringing to the United States was made by a hoax website but then repeated by Republican candidates during the Republican debate?
you live in a small isolated world
 

spandy

Well-Known Member
Again they've known each other and have worked together for 25 years..not everyone is an enemy of the other..can't change voting records and only one will stand at the end of the day..although I secretly snicker every time I think Hillary really thought she was just going to get the nomination just because of the deal with Obama in 2008.

I snicker when people say they actually think Bernie will get the nomination and win.
 

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
I snicker when people say they actually think Bernie will get the nomination and win.
To be fair I feel the same way about Trump and Carson though. I just don't see the GOP letting anyone but the establishment win. I have been saying Bush for about a year now, but he's been so bad I don't think he's even relevant right now. I'm guessing Rubio or Cruz as the establishment guy. It's a shame Kasich is getting more play. Governors with successful track records make sense to me.
 

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
To be fair I feel the same way about Trump and Carson though. I just don't see the GOP letting anyone but the establishment win. I have been saying Bush for about a year now, but he's been so bad I don't think he's even relevant right now. I'm guessing Rubio or Cruz as the establishment guy. It's a shame Kasich is getting more play. Governors with successful track records make sense to me.
The establishment HATES Cruz. They can't stand him. The Bush family especially. No way is he their candidate.
The GOP despises Cruz to the point I would probably support him if he were the nominee
 

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
"Military aged males" is the stupidest argument ever because a lot of them have two choices: 1) Fight for Assad and get executed if captured 2) Fight for the Rebels and get executed if captured. So, a lot of them are facing death whichever side they fight for, and many of them instead flee. Most of the people that are actually coming over are educated.

Also, I guess you don't remember the two Iraqi men that came here as refugees and were arrested for terrorism due to the FBI and military's fingerprint database. Their fingerprints were tagged from IEDs placed in Iraq and now they're in Federal prison charged with terrorism.

Did we ever wonder if any of the Vietnamese coming over were VC or NVA fighters? Or if any Bosnians or Serbians were war criminals? No. We didn't, and we can vet them very easily. The problem with other countries is that they're not being vetted, or they're being sent to places where they're absolutely useless and they can't do a thing for their own economic good. However it seems to you like every Syrian male must be a member of ISIS, right?
You sound convinced like an Obama spokesperson, But under oath the FBI says different. There is no way to vet them. Not to mention it would cost Americans billions over the long term. Who is going to take care of those low skilled, non English speaking Muslims? You never mention the cost of these Obama programs. And why do they all have to be Muslims? Christians in Syria are far more at risk than Muslims. Why do they need to be military aged men? You still haven't given me a good enough answer yet. Why can't we help them fight over there? Why do they need to come here? I would rather help women and children.
 

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
"We don’t have it under control,” Mr. Michael Steinback, Assistant Director for the FBI told the committee. “Absolutely, we’re doing the best we can. If I were to say that we had it under control, then I would say I know of every single individual traveling. I don’t. And I don’t know every person there and I don’t know everyone coming back. So it’s not even close to being under control.”

 

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
You sound convinced like an Obama spokesperson, But under oath the FBI says different. There is no way to vet them. Not to mention it would cost Americans billions over the long term. Who is going to take care of those low skilled, non English speaking Muslims? You never mention the cost of these Obama programs. And why do they all have to be Muslims? Christians in Syria are far more at risk than Muslims. Why do they need to be military aged men? You still haven't given me a good enough answer yet. Why can't we help them fight over there? Why do they need to come here? I would rather help women and children.
The ones that can afford to get here are actually mostly middle class, or upper, and educated, or looking to become educated and not low skilled. Moreover this "Only military aged men are coming to the United States" bullshit you keep spouting like the truth is only just that: bullshit and I'm willing to bet you know it's bs. However, the more times you say a lie doesn't bring it closer to the truth.

The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees registers and tracks refugees. Before you begin with your "oh we can't trust the UN to do anything because of hasbara manual answer and/or GOP talking point about the UN is bad/Tinfoil hat answer about global one world New Order government," I'm going to point out that the UNHCR is the one that runs the refugee camps as well as the ICRC. Here we have the UNHCR data http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php on the Syrian refugees: 4,181,329 as of Nov. 2, 2015. Here we also see that 50.3% of the refugees are female, so now we don't even have a "most of the refugees are military aged men," argument plausible anymore; the argument has been proven false. A more appropriate argument would be "Half of the refugees are male." However, out of 49.7% of the male refugees, only roughly 23% are between the ages of 18-59. Albeit, according to the United States definition of a military age, that would be males 18-35, so we can expect that number to be cut roughly by a 1/3 at most I'd wager. However 27.6% of the male refugee population is aged 0-17, 60+.

Now, what about all the ones that are coming in via the Sea to Europe, right? Only a little over half of the 534,000 "Sea refugees" are actually from Syria, the rest coming from Eritrea, Afghanistan and Sudan. Guess what? "Sea refugees" is already a problem in Greece, Italy, the Balkans, and Spain because of immigrants coming from Eritrea, Sudan, and North Africa in general - this is not a new problem.

Now, onto what Kerry said: If you actually took the time to listen to the entire speech, or knew the context, you'd know that when Secretary Kerry said that we'd in total bring in up to 185,000 refugees you'd know that these were not going to be all Syrian. You'd also know that President Obama said that in fiscal year 2016 we would accept at least 10,000 refugees from Syria. You'd also know that Geoffrey Mock, Syrian country specialist for Amnesty International USA said that with the 10,000 Syrian refugees "The priorities go to torture survivors, people with serious medical conditions, children and teens on their own, and women and children at risk." Moreover recently Daveed Gartenstein-Ross, senior fellow for the Foundation for Defense of Democracies has stated that there would be more efficient ways for ISIS cells to reach America than via the refugees.

So, you know, or you could just prove Padawanbater absolutely and undeniably correct when he said "You'll dismiss any sort of fact to confirm your own bias."
 
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