Putin moves in, tells Obama to get the hell outta the way, bombs questionable targets in Syria.

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
And your country is doing nothing but spreading death and destabilization all over the planet. Russia hasn't violated any laws to do what it's done in Syria. And the whole Ukraine thing is nebulous at best given the Ukraine was a part of Russia for most of history and the fact that right wing extremists came to power and directly threatened the Russian speaking population added to the legitimacy of his move and detracted severely from yet another example of deliberate US destabilization by supporting the most extreme of extreme who are happy to fight for a buck.

Sure, detracting from problems at home, right? I saw a poll that had him at over 90% approval rating. Russians are infinitely more informed about world events and what's actually happening than American's are. Literally, it's like day and night.
Also, Russia by supplying arms to the Assad regime in the early stages of the Syrian Civil war was in direct contravention of international law seeing as how there was an arms embargo on Syria, and the Syrian rebels. And no, Russians are not infinitely more informed about world events than Americans are. Is that suppose to be a joke? Because they still think that the current Ukrainian government are Nazi-Jew-Gay-Fascists (please explain to me how this works if they're SO INFORMED) that want to commit genocide on every Russian (so informed), and that Obama is a N-word (so informed), and that all gays are evil (so informed).

Russians think that all areas that were part of the USSR or the Soviet Bloc should be... Russian. How is that for an "infinitely superior world view," when the former Soviet republics voted for self-determination? And if you're so hellbent on Syria being able to self-determine, then why are you so hellbent on seeing the Syrian Opposition crushed? Or if every country should maintain its Sovereignity, why does Russia get to invade Ukraine? Because Ukraine was "historically part of Russia," which is a strange claim at best. Does that mean that India should belong to the UK? Ireland should belong to the UK also, so should half of France, and most of Africa. Hungary? Should be part of Austria, and why even stop there. Let's just carve the world back up into Colonial Empires and call it good.
 
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OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Also, Russia by supplying arms to the Assad regime in the early stages of the Syrian Civil war was in direct contravention of international law seeing as how there was an arms embargo on Syria, and the Syrian rebels. And no, Russians are not infinitely more informed about world events than Americans are. Is that suppose to be a joke? Because they still think that the current Ukrainian government are Nazi-Jew-Gay-Fascists (please explain to me how this works if they're SO INFORMED) that want to commit genocide on every Russian (so informed), and that Obama is a N-word (so informed), and that all gays are evil (so informed).

Russians think that all areas that were part of the USSR or the Soviet Bloc should be... Russian. How is that for an "infinitely superior world view," when the former Soviet republics voted for self-determination? And if you're so hellbent on Syria being able to self-determine, then why are you so hellbent on seeing the Syrian Opposition crushed? Or if every country should maintain its Sovereignity, why does Russia get to invade Ukraine? Because Ukraine was "historically part of Russia," which is a strange claim at best. Does that mean that India should belong to the UK? Ireland should belong to the UK also, so should half of France, and most of Africa. Hungary? Should be part of Austria, and why even stop there. Let's just carve the world back up into Colonial Empires and call it good.
They are fascists. The Ukrainian government? They members of the Svoda in the Cabinet. They were also the force behind the foreign supported coup. You trying to tell me they're not fascists even though they are?

Overthrowing a legitimately elected government (UN observed) through the use of fascists and it was completely the fault of the United States as they were the ones pushing and supporting them. It isn't even a secret. That shit is highly illegal. The legally elected representative of the Ukraine asked Russia for help. But you think some how that's against the rules? You're so fucking deluded it's disgusting. Go drink some more American only propaganda. Hell, they recently legalized the use of psychological tactics to further push their agenda (not that they weren't using them before, but hey, at least now they're fucking open about it).
 

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
They are fascists. The Ukrainian government? They members of the Svoda in the Cabinet. They were also the force behind the foreign supported coup. You trying to tell me they're not fascists even though they are?

Overthrowing a legitimately elected government (UN observed) through the use of fascists and it was completely the fault of the United States as they were the ones pushing and supporting them. It isn't even a secret. That shit is highly illegal. The legally elected representative of the Ukraine asked Russia for help. But you think some how that's against the rules? You're so fucking deluded it's disgusting. Go drink some more American only propaganda. Hell, they recently legalized the use of psychological tactics to further push their agenda (not that they weren't using them before, but hey, at least now they're fucking open about it).
I'm sorry but how many Ukrainians do you know? I know many and am I'm friends with several Maidan activists, including people whose family members were Euromaidan activists. Go chug down your Russian propaganda. They wanted closer integration with Europe. You need to remember that Yanukovych had imprisoned his political opponents Yuriy Lutsenko and Yulia Tymoshenko. Yushchenko even went so far as to testify against Tymoshenko and call it "a normal judicial process." Since when have you heard of a President testifying against a political opponent in a political trail?

In 2013 when Ukraine and the EU signed an Association Agreement for greater cooperation and trade, Russia banned all imports from the Ukraine to put political pressure on them to make them go away from the deal. Yanukovych in 2013 went to Vilinius to initially sign the Association Agreement with the EU, which is what he told his government he was going to do and didn't. It was then signaled that both Yanukovych and EU officials wanted a later date on signing it. By March 57% of Ukrainians supported Euromaidan. Harvard University conducted a study as well examining examining public opinion and social media finding that 74% of Russian speakers in Ukraine supported the Euromaidan movement, with only a quarter opposed. 46% of Ukrainians supported the integration of the country into EU, and 36% in December.

Remember the Orange Revolution in Ukraine? When Yanukovych had to resign due to voting irregularities and voter fraud? Yaroslav Hrytsak, Doctor of Historical Sciences and visiting professor of the Central European University, a very well renown Ukrainian historian said, "This is a revolution of the generation that we call the contemporaries of Ukraine's independence (who were born around the time of 1991); it is more similar to the Occupy Wall Street protests or those in Istanbul demonstrations (of this year). It's a revolution of young people who are very educated, people who are active in social media, who are mobile and 90 percent of whom have university degrees, but who don't have futures." In every poll that was taken for greater European integration it was found that the lowest support was among people with incomplete secondary and higher education. By 2014, protests against the Yanukovych government appeared all over Ukraine.

Also, remember, it was Yanukovych who fled Ukraine and abandoned his post as President, only after sicking BERKUT officers on the protesters and that's what turned the protests violent. I was following the news on this every single day, looking at at least 10 different news sources including Russia Today knowing full well it was the media wing of the Russian government. I was in contact about twice a week with my friends on Skype making sure that they were okay.

And as far "Overthrowing a legitimately elected government (UN observed) through the use of fascists?" Look at Crimea and what Russia did there. Tell me it's not a flagrant violation of international law and I'll know you know nothing about international law.

Furthermore, while there might be fascist leaning ultranationalists in the Verkhovna Rada they are not a majority and they are there directly because of Russia trying to meddle in Ukraine's internal affairs thus fueling nationalism.
 
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Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Also, Russia by supplying arms to the Assad regime in the early stages of the Syrian Civil war was in direct contravention of international law seeing as how there was an arms embargo on Syria, and the Syrian rebels. And no, Russians are not infinitely more informed about world events than Americans are. Is that suppose to be a joke? Because they still think that the current Ukrainian government are Nazi-Jew-Gay-Fascists (please explain to me how this works if they're SO INFORMED) that want to commit genocide on every Russian (so informed), and that Obama is a N-word (so informed), and that all gays are evil (so informed).

Russians think that all areas that were part of the USSR or the Soviet Bloc should be... Russian. How is that for an "infinitely superior world view," when the former Soviet republics voted for self-determination? And if you're so hellbent on Syria being able to self-determine, then why are you so hellbent on seeing the Syrian Opposition crushed? Or if every country should maintain its Sovereignity, why does Russia get to invade Ukraine? Because Ukraine was "historically part of Russia," which is a strange claim at best. Does that mean that India should belong to the UK? Ireland should belong to the UK also, so should half of France, and most of Africa. Hungary? Should be part of Austria, and why even stop there. Let's just carve the world back up into Colonial Empires and call it good.
The British tried and failed, the trick is to make it so expensive and so bloody that it isnt worth holding the territory.

The Glorious Motherland of the Russian Federation shall pacify Islamic State, because America hasn't the balls.

You can say what you like but America has NEVER looked weaker in the International community than it does now.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry but how many Ukrainians do you know? I know many and am I'm friends with several Maidan activists, including people whose family members were Euromaidan activists. Go chug down your Russian propaganda. They wanted closer integration with Europe. You need to remember that Yanukovych had imprisoned his political opponents Yuriy Lutsenko and Yulia Tymoshenko. Yushchenko even went so far as to testify against Tymoshenko and call it "a normal judicial process." Since when have you heard of a President testifying against a political opponent in a political trail?

In 2013 when Ukraine and the EU signed an Association Agreement for greater cooperation and trade, Russia banned all imports from the Ukraine to put political pressure on them to make them go away from the deal. Yanukovych in 2013 went to Vilinius to initially sign the Association Agreement with the EU, which is what he told his government he was going to do and didn't. It was then signaled that both Yanukovych and EU officials wanted a later date on signing it. By March 57% of Ukrainians supported Euromaidan. Harvard University conducted a study as well examining examining public opinion and social media finding that 74% of Russian speakers in Ukraine supported the Euromaidan movement, with only a quarter opposed. 46% of Ukrainians supported the integration of the country into EU, and 36% in December.

Remember the Orange Revolution in Ukraine? When Yanukovych had to resign due to voting irregularities and voter fraud? Yaroslav Hrytsak, Doctor of Historical Sciences and visiting professor of the Central European University, a very well renown Ukrainian historian said, "This is a revolution of the generation that we call the contemporaries of Ukraine's independence (who were born around the time of 1991); it is more similar to the Occupy Wall Street protests or those in Istanbul demonstrations (of this year). It's a revolution of young people who are very educated, people who are active in social media, who are mobile and 90 percent of whom have university degrees, but who don't have futures." In every poll that was taken for greater European integration it was found that the lowest support was among people with incomplete secondary and higher education. By 2014, protests against the Yanukovych government appeared all over Ukraine.

Also, remember, it was Yanukovych who fled Ukraine and abandoned his post as President, only after sicking BERKUT officers on the protesters and that's what turned the protests violent. I was following the news on this every single day, looking at at least 10 different news sources including Russia Today knowing full well it was the media wing of the Russian government. I was in contact about twice a week with my friends on Skype making sure that they were okay.

And as far "Overthrowing a legitimately elected government (UN observed) through the use of fascists?" Look at Crimea and what Russia did there. Tell me it's not a flagrant violation of international law and I'll know you know nothing about international law.

Furthermore, while there might be fascist leaning ultranationalists in the Verkhovna Rada they are not a majority and they are there directly because of Russia trying to meddle in Ukraine's internal affairs thus fueling nationalism.
The Orange Revolution was another US supported adventure - the US financed the youth groups that got on the streets (because they were paid to). I know many Russians and I also know a few Ukrainians. One of the games I play has brought me closer to some of them. I notice you ignored the points I made and diverted the subject completely. I also notice your sources are completely pro western.

I love how you just downplay the fact they are nazi's like it's nothing.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
The British tried and failed, the trick is to make it so expensive and so bloody that it isnt worth holding the territory.

The Glorious Motherland of the Russian Federation shall pacify Islamic State, because America hasn't the balls.

You can say what you like but America has NEVER looked weaker in the International community than it does now.
Well if weak means we get the fuck out of the middle east
I'm all for weakness
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Well if weak means we get the fuck out of the middle east
I'm all for weakness
The point the rest of the world is making tho is that if the US hadn't supported the FSA (AKA Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant) this issue wouldn't have occurred.

Think about it:

•You's invade the relatively stable region after 9/11

•Destroy the primarily secular Shia leadership there

•Let the Sunnis go mad in the power vacuum

•THEN decide to pull out when for the first time there is a justifiable reason to actually be there that was directly caused by your actions, funding, etc.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
The point the rest of the world is making tho is that if the US hadn't supported the FSA (AKA Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant) this issue wouldn't have occurred.

Think about it:

•You's invade the relatively stable region after 9/11

•Destroy the primarily secular Shia leadership there
.
•Let the Sunnis go mad in the power vacuum

•THEN decide to pull out when for the first time there is a justifiable reason to actually be there that was directly caused by your actions, funding, etc.
Hussein was a sunni and Bathist. The region was far from stable. It's just worse today
Other than that. Yeah I predicted it 14 years ago.
The Bush plan was never to leave the region despite his promises to do so
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Hussein was a sunni and Bathist. The region was far from stable. It's just worse today
Other than that. Yeah I predicted it 14 years ago.
The Bush plan was never to leave the region despite his promises to do so
So would it be fair to say you'd support Russia moving 150,000 troops into Syria to "wipe out" Islamic State?
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Yes I would.
I believe UK Germany and France are also onboard with this
I hope the international news agencies cover it, nothing more entertaining than a good war.

The large scale tomahawk attack on Baghdad at the start of the most recent Iraq war gave me massive wood.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
I hope the international news agencies cover it, nothing more entertaining than a good war.

The large scale tomahawk attack on Baghdad at the start of the most recent Iraq war gave me massive wood.
Made me angry. I knew what the result was going to be.
Bush one sold out Hussein for military bases in Saud and Kuwait. But he wasn't stupid enough to take out Hussein
 

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
I know many Russians and I also know a few Ukrainians. One of the games I play has brought me closer to some of them.
This explains it. You're only listening to pro-Russian sources. So when you've talked to both sides and are able to make an educated decision yourself then we'll talk. As long as you're listening to one side and parroting propaganda we're done. And I did say that the reason why Svoboda was ultranationalistic was because of Russia's constant meddling into Ukraine's internal affair's. However, Svoboda changed their tune recently, and you'd know this if you'd read the news. Olexiy Haran and Alexander J. Motyl actually argue, and quite persuasively, that Svoboda is closer to the Tea Party than Neo Nazis (http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/alexander-j-motyl/experts-ukraine, http://www.kyivpost.com/content/politics/svobodas-rise-inspires-some-frightens-many-others-335107.html). Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on Russians or anything like that, just Putin's government. I'm friends with tons of Russians too, they're hilarious, and I play video games with a bunch of them that live both here in the U.S. and in Russia, as well as people who live in Ukraine, or are from there and here in the U.S..

But as long as we're talking about Russia in this thread... Why don't we watch what Glorious Mother Russia has to offer: www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLUxuq-E9yA
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuOVgx3Zh6E . Or let's just ignore the fact that in 2007 ABC News ran a story about Neo-Nazis and included ,"In a country that lost more people defeating the Nazis than any other country, there are now an estimated 50,000 to 70,000 neo-Nazis, half of the world's total." Go ahead and look up Russian National Unity, or the Liberal Democratic Party of Russia, though to be far to the LDPR they're more far-right, ultranationalistic than RNE. But then in Russia, in 2007, there was a video being circulated around the internet of two immigrants being beheaded in front of a red and black flag with a Swastika. Who took credit? The Russian National Socialist Party, and keep in mind that National Socialist Party because the official name of the Nazi Party in Germany was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei or the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Let's also forget how Russia sided with its friend Serbia during the Bosnian Civil War and was a major problem in stopping the genocide occurring there.

As far as America looking weak? Yeah I'm with Cheesus on this. If it means we get out of the ME, I'm cool with that, I could care less. I really don't mind the US being seen as not having the stomach to fight, why? Because it means we're taking a step back away from the war mongering image that we had, and are instead stepping more into a "peacekeeping" role again. Let Russia shows it true colors and let's let Putin live up to his Imperial Russia aspirations. As I said, one of two things are going to happen: He'll pull it off, or the fighting will get worse as the Sunni Muslims in the Caucus and Central Asia flock to ISIL for their chance at Russian blood or to Al-Nusra for the same thing.

One thing I did actually like that became an outcome of Russian involvement is there are now calls to involve the FSA, SRCC, and Assad government in peace talks, but the real question is will Assad actually give up all his authoritarian power? Plus we'll get to see some of Russia's newest hardware and see how effective they've been outside of helping insurgents out in Ukraine.
 

Clockboy Orange

Well-Known Member
scientific polls have time and again shown that america is now the most respected country on earth thanks to obama's leadership.

i know you hate science, being that you are mentally retarded, but these are just plain facts.
We might have dropped down the respect ladder a little, I don't think those are facts by any means either we are about to enter world war 3 because of the shit going on in the middle east. We can actually thank Bush and Obama for that.

Picking sides is for idiots.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Regardless of the subtle geopolitical nuances involved in this intricate power play.
This is the way the majority of the world now perceives Obama.


Thanks, Obama!!
 

Clockboy Orange

Well-Known Member
Regardless of the subtle geopolitical nuances involved in this intricate power play.
This is the way the majority of the world now perceives Obama.


Thanks, Obama!!
I'd rather him look at Obama as a pussy and hopefully just push him aside for a while so we can get someone in charge that might mend the gap between our countries.

We don't need an asshole slapping sanctions on Russia, we need someone who can sit down in the same room and actually be respected.

That should be requirement 1 to be potus - a presence that demands respect.
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
I'd rather him look at Obama as a pussy and hopefully just push him aside for a while so we can get someone in charge that might mend the gap between our countries.

We don't need an asshole slapping sanctions on Russia, we need someone who can sit down in the same room and actually be respected.

That should be requirement 1 to be potus - a presence that demands respect.
Interesting take.
Who among all of the candidates vying for the POTUS do you think would best fit the bill that you presented above?
Curious?
Thanks!
 
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