Tissue culture and cannabis?

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
Just waking up so groggy. I'll try to remember to look up the pdf I have Ann's try uploading somewhere.

It uses a sugarless medium so less chance of nasty things taking hold. Second part is I believe there is a better rate of survival in the hardening off stage. I believe it is similar to a method to certain mushroom cultivation where you have air flowing through an aquarium.

It may be too complicated or expensive for a home setup. I haven't been able to set up yet to try it yet unfortunately.

People learned how to germinate orchids seeds in vitro back in 1900 and have experimented since to perfect it and move forward with micropropagation.

I have read that every Cavendish banana is tissue cultured. These are the bananas on shelves world wide. Not surprising, they were bred to have no functional seeds. I'm not sure about other commercial crops.

Venus fly traps and the like ate popular for tc, at least amongst hobbyists and they seem to have that down part as well.

The lack of study on marijuana is because it and hemp have been illegal for so long. There is the one Chinese paper I know of that tried it with hemp. I forget their success rate.

There's only a couple of reasons I see it could be worthwhile other than just liking to tinker and experiment.

1) Keep a back up library of many strains. This in case the mother dies. Or in case you are short on room and want to try new strains still, but don't want to lose other strains you'd need to cull to make room.

2) You're running a large commercial grow. This way you don't need tons of identical mothers to keep product consistency. Even this way you can get variations in size I'd think. My understanding on tissue culture is it's rather uniform in growth when everything is consistent. You wouldn't have to root in multiple batches as the mothers degree enough.

3) Better spread of clone only strains, or maybe hard to clone strains. It theoretically would allow shopping if the person on the other end knew what they were doing. Or to this end possibly the practice of artificial seeds will be perfected for marijuana.

I would say I'm surprised the operations in Amsterdam never picked this up for crop uniformity but sadly I'm not. Those seed companies don't even bother stabilizing their lines. Just grab any two "strains" also them together, also a new name to it and ship it right out the door
Meh, I've run sugarless mediums like in the case of psylosybin cultivation, you can have contamination take hold if the medium has sugar in it or not. It might decrease the likelyhood of infection, so point taken.

Actually the method is not like mushroom cultivation, the byproduct of fungi is CO2, and it does not take much airflow, in fact on the Brown Rice Flour (BRF) cakes I make I do not expose them to circulating air until a fruiting body shows.

So back to "photoautotropic propagation," the idea is that CO2, is the food versus Sucrose in the agar. If we look at Chieri Kubota's work she says that in vitro propagation is slow due to the limited ammount of co2 in vitro. And I somewhat agree after looking at the time it takes from Stage 1 to plant hardening in Wang's or Scroggins work on in vitro cultivation. Off the top of my head from explant to hardened plant takes somewhere around 6 weeks.

Well at the very least we could flood a laminar booth with a high level of co2 when inserting explants into the desired medium. In Kubota's work it looks like there is more mass vs regular explants. And needless to say co2 we know is a basic building block of mass. I'm now sure how I would implement this and mantain a sterile culture at the same time flowing co2 over explants in vitro, not to mention the cost of concentrated co2, as in a compressed cylinder might push me away from going this route.

The abstract you mention is wang's 2009 study on the micropropagation of hemp... Cannabis Sativa L. Same thing if you ask me as the typical cannabis hybrids. The success rate after Stage 3 to hardened plants is 99%.

Well I'm researching this now, I think I'm going to go commercial, and provide clones to commercial grow ops.. I'm looking at pushing clones out in numbers like 200-500 clones a month.

At the very least I've learned a bit, from Kubota's work, I could use the co2 to optimize growth in my explants. ;) I'll continue to at least look into the subject.

Like.. good stuff man...
 

Voidling

Well-Known Member
Ah yeah selfed female is a feminized seed.

I started at icmag, came over here for a single thread that was a community. Was sent some great genetics from friends I made. Unfortunately the thread died. Now I don't do much on the forums, and usually nothing outside of the diy led.

I had bought spore syringes but then the large pressure cooker I was going to borrow supposedly suddenly wouldn't hold pressure the night before I was to pick it up. So the syringes went to waste. Never have gone forward. I need to, seriously need to try micro dose for serious depression.

Maybe need to vent off the mushroom co2 to the explants, or alcohol making. If only that simple.

Yeah I assumed the recipe that works for hemp would work for marijuana.

Let me know how it goes, I'm interested
 

vitamin_green_inc

Well-Known Member
Ah yeah selfed female is a feminized seed.

I started at icmag, came over here for a single thread that was a community. Was sent some great genetics from friends I made. Unfortunately the thread died. Now I don't do much on the forums, and usually nothing outside of the diy led.

I had bought spore syringes but then the large pressure cooker I was going to borrow supposedly suddenly wouldn't hold pressure the night before I was to pick it up. So the syringes went to waste. Never have gone forward. I need to, seriously need to try micro dose for serious depression.

Maybe need to vent off the mushroom co2 to the explants, or alcohol making. If only that simple.

Yeah I assumed the recipe that works for hemp would work for marijuana.

Let me know how it goes, I'm interested
Don't need a pressure cooker
 

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
Don't need a pressure cooker
Heh, yeah you beat me to it.. you dont need a PC, I've found 90 min of steam will work just fine, for mycology, I'm not sure I want to cook TC agar that long, I'm looking at some of the hormones like TDZ.. and they will break down.
 
Last edited:

Voidling

Well-Known Member
As far as hybrids evolving, I don't know how much further they can be taken. At least not until they start researching and selecting for different canababanoids.

I had fallen for the seed company hype before and burnt out on their pitches of latest and greatest. If they would stabilize a line so that 90% of the seeds matched their description I'd be stoked. But one out of 50? Then the description is pointless.

I'd give a lot to have my old "blueberry" back. I'm not sure what it really was but smelled like lemon head candy, tasted similar and had a nice high. I typically hate the taste of any marijuana but that one wasn't so bad.
 

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
I'm no genetics expert, but looking at all the types of beans out there with only around 22 chromosomes, and cannabis with only 20 I'm sure that there are plenty of undiscovered phenotypes. Keep in mind the drug type cultivar has been only been intensely bred within the last 100 years...

I more or less have a fuzzy (I might be generous in saying that) idea of how to eliminate population variation with inbreeding to have a consistent population with homozygous traits. .. I would say that would be on the breeder for not releasing a inbred line with limited phenotype variation. Correct me if I am wrong but a IBL F1 would be more desirable?

Kinda why I like clones. Especially with a production garden.

I'll have to say the lemon/citrus/grapefruit note is cannabis is almost too common. (Just my opinon) Not saying its bad, but the other fruit type aromas like pineapple, or blueberry.. seem very desirable. I for one lost a C99 that had that fresh pineapple aroma when pheno fishing. I kinda wish I had her back.
 
Last edited:

Voidling

Well-Known Member
Oh yes, I had some hash sent to me of pineapple c99. Unfortunately two partners had a bad falling out and they both left the forum before I got seeds for some of their stuff. I am interested in the chocolate claims.

Oh there will be variations in this and that but relatively small differences. I suppose looking at it as a connesuer then yeah ever slightly changing is there thing. But if one is just liking to feel better then just need something that works for you. I'm in the second group. I'm in extreme physical pain right now.

An ibl is definitely on the breeder, but none of them go that far. Personally I'd rather not have feminized seed in case I want to cross my own
 

Voidling

Well-Known Member
Just checked my stash. Got a couple c99 seeds. And a couple labeled c99 phenotype. Not sure if that's ibl or just off of a pineapple pheno mother.
 

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
Moving forward finally on this. First formula will be from Melinda Davis.

Stage 1 Division/Stage 2 divisions

M&S medium with vitamins.
2 Tablespoons of sugar.
1ml PPM
.5ml IBA at 1mg/ml
1ml of Kintien.
9g/l Agar
30 g/l sucrose.

This is very confusing how this is written in the book, so lets simplify.

Formula for 1 liter of Stage 1 & 2 divisions.

9 grams of MS medium with vitamins.
30 grams of sucrose.
.5 gram of IBA (Auxin)
1 ml of PPM (Plant Preservative Mixture) Biocides to keep the medium from getting contaminated
1 ml of Kiniten (Cytokinin)

Optional 1 drop of green food coloring, just for reference purposes.

Now unlike the chinese version done on commercial hemp, this has PPM in it.. An advantage for us that don't have a laminar flow hood. This should help reduce the contamination of the cultures. Im still going to PC the mixture and make a makeshift laminar hood.
 

Voidling

Well-Known Member
I look forward to your experience. Wish I could get into it right now myself.

Did those sources I sent do you any good?
 

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
Correct. Both, myc and TC.
And also correct on playing with time and not temp. Psi must remain at 15 and no less than 220F
For Myc, I've never PC cakes I've simply steam sterilized at 90 min at full boil. I think I've only had 2 possible contams. Out of the hundreds cakes I've run over the years. No starts is a bigger problem. I think its overkill but this is my data point.

I already said I was going to PC the TC agar, The one formula has Plant Preservative Mixture, so this should give me more wiggle room with shorter sterilize times. My concern is denaturing the plant hormones, I might try a control group with no heat other than the bare minimum. We will see.

The real weak point of TC is how the material is prepped prior to culture, in my opinion. Chinese standard says to wash with APSA80 (Amway soap) Melinda uses dilute bleach.. I'll have to come up with something economical, and that makes sense. I have a bunch of Chlorhexidine Gluconate soap, I might try that too.
 

Voidling

Well-Known Member
Isn't diluted bleach economical? My understanding is that college labs teaching tc use flowers and use diluted bleach as well
 

GrowerGoneWild

Well-Known Member
Isn't diluted bleach economical? My understanding is that college labs teaching tc use flowers and use diluted bleach as well
Im not sure if its going to damage the tissue.. seems like other techs are using other methods. But yes, bleach should be the cheapest way.. not sure if its the best way.
 

Voidling

Well-Known Member
Yeah I'm sure it's a fine line of diluted enough to not hurt plant tissue but strong enough to kill pathogens.

I need to get some stuff to try myc. I spent two weeks going to a psychiatrist for ketamine treatment, way too expensive. Want to see if mushrooms well help with micro dosing.
 

Grandpa GreenJeans

Well-Known Member
For Myc, I've never PC cakes I've simply steam sterilized at 90 min at full boil. I think I've only had 2 possible contams. Out of the hundreds cakes I've run over the years. No starts is a bigger problem. I think its overkill but this is my data point.

I already said I was going to PC the TC agar, The one formula has Plant Preservative Mixture, so this should give me more wiggle room with shorter sterilize times. My concern is denaturing the plant hormones, I might try a control group with no heat other than the bare minimum. We will see.

The real weak point of TC is how the material is prepped prior to culture, in my opinion. Chinese standard says to wash with APSA80 (Amway soap) Melinda uses dilute bleach.. I'll have to come up with something economical, and that makes sense. I have a bunch of Chlorhexidine Gluconate soap, I might try that too.
You can always order the agar media and some come with anibiotics in the mix to prevent or prolong micobial growth while you administer the growth hormones along the way. As I'm sure you already know, there's multiple hormones needed for a TC, and each has a specific function. Grow roots, grow stems, and leaves. Orchid enthusiasts and forums alike have a good deal of info on TC and give reputable retailers for the equipment you'll need.
 
Top