Been fighting this deficiency for a while

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Mjaylover

Active Member
So i'm having three different issues so bear with me. I'm gonna explain the main one since this is the setup i plan on using and getting away from soil (cuz i suck at it).

So I'm having problems with this new ebb and flow setup. I've finally dialed down the amount of floods and i've seen some decent growth but not nearly what i'm use to and no where near what I saw with the my Rdwc setup. Before I saw no growth and REALLY shiny leaves. I ended up upping the nutes to 1.0 from .5ish and things started growing but the purple didn't and the stretching didn't stop



Symptoms:

Purple stems, some so purple i've never even seen a pic on Google this purple
hardy stems
Shiny leaves (leathery fake plant looking)
Stretching

Since the plants we're at least a month old I switched to Lucas formula (since i had enough for one rez change)which upped the ec to 1.6. I then started seeing what looks to be burn and some weird spots on the leaves. The purple stems and really weird stretching is still there and bothersome. I recently added some Phosphorus to the lucas formula since i've tried CalMag with no change in the purple stems. Its only been a couple days so I'm hoping it does


Now to my two soil plants

I'm using nutrients from Mbferts.com but recently been flushing because i've seen some changes in the plants i didn't like and i was feeding way too much which i believe was effecting the uptake of nutes. I also flushed because the runoff was in the low 5.s The first plant has yellow blotchy spots and the start on older leaves randomly throughout the plant. I finally fed her with low nutes around .6 ec and i believe the spots are worse now that is been a couple days.

The second soil plant is just fucked and i'm not sure what was going on besides it being root bound and was not taking any nutes and the leaves were droopy and finally started turning yellow. I flushed and things have been shitty every since. It needed water today so I flushed it with some water with calmag since it looks like the deficiency to me. The runoff was still pretty high at 1.2 until a gallon or two before settling with .6ish ec

I was feeding a lot until i read this from mandala seeds

"Check the EC levels of your nutrient solution first and remember that regardless of what is written on the packaging – never feed your plants with more than EC 0.6-0.8 mS/cm (indoor) to 1.0-1.2 mS/cm (outdoor) on soil! This way you will always be on the safe side. For hydroponics consider using lower EC levels (1.0-1.6 mS/cm) and flushing less, instead of heroic dosages that always push the plants to the edge. This is not only more environmentally friendly, healthier, but also means less stress and maintenance problems. - See more at: http://mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Marijuana-Nutrient-Problems#sthash.DMC5AQGT.dpuf"

also

"The more advanced stages of excess nitrogen are accompanied by necrosis on many leaves. First the leaf tips burn and dry up. Rusty brown spots appear between the veins and eventually the entire leaf turns brown and falls off. - See more at: http://mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Marijuana-Nutrient-Problems#sthash.DMC5AQGT.dpuf"

pictures are in order

first two are from the ebb and flow system purple stems
second two is the first soil plant'
third two is the second soil plant (fucked one)


Thanks in advance
 

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Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
Purple can be genetic and isn't necessarily a problem. What strain?

Reducing your EC was smart.
 
Bugeye

Bugeye

Well-Known Member
Well...cold nights or nutrient antagonism lockout would be the only things it would be if this is a clone of your other. I assume your temps are probably okay so dropping your EC should take care of the lockout.
 
M

Mjaylover

Active Member
Bugeye said:
Well...cold nights or nutrient antagonism lockout would be the only things it would be if this is a clone of your other. I assume your temps are probably okay so dropping your EC should take care of the lockout.
Click to expand...
Temps are 72 during the day and 69 at night so I don't think it's temp. And what's crazy I had purple stems and no growth at .5 ec so I added more nutes to 1.2 and finally saw growth but the purple didn't go away. Added calmag, didn't go away, changed to Lucas , hasn't gone away, now added phosphorus and its still there but looks better over the last day or so.

How fast will purple go away if you fix the problem?
 
jacksthc

jacksthc

Well-Known Member
the plants in soil is down to mag diff, some very good examples of mag diff in different stages, love the pics

the light colored leaves at the top of the plant is likely to be light burn as its the top of the plant, there is a trace nute diff that can cause new growth to be yellow in color but can't rember the name

I would buy some epsom salt (magnesium)and add one tsp per gallon from last week in veg up till the last 3 weeks of flower

if its not light burn on the top leaves buy some mag-cal and add 1tsp per gallon with weak nutes from last week in veg till last 3 weeks in flower
 
M

Mjaylover

Active Member
jacksthc said:
the plants in soil is down to mag diff, some very good examples of mag diff in different stages, love the pics

the light colored leaves at the top of the plant is likely to be light burn as its the top of the plant, there is a trace nute diff that can cause new growth to be yellow in color but can't rember the name

I would buy some epsom salt (magnesium)and add one tsp per gallon from last week in veg up till the last 3 weeks of flower

if its not light burn on the top leaves buy some mag-cal and add 1tsp per gallon with weak nutes from last week in veg till last 3 weeks in flower
Click to expand...
Okay. Should I do Epsom salts or Calmag for the soil plants? I have both. Just don't want to add cal if it's not needed.

And have any opinions on the ebb and flow plants?
 
jacksthc

jacksthc

Well-Known Member
Mjaylover said:
Okay. Should I do Epsom salts or Calmag for the soil plants? I have both. Just don't want to add cal if it's not needed.

And have any opinions on the ebb and flow plants?
Click to expand...
I used to over feed my plants because like a lot of grower I thought it would give me a bigger yeild but all it did was stress my plant give me dark green leaves and red stems

over the last couple of years I have learned that most plants can stay heathy from seed to flower in soil without nutes, but some plants need a little npk nutes, 2nd or trace nutes that may be lacking in the soil or water

Epsom salts and Calmag are very strong,

your plant need Epsom salts (magnesium) but as this is one of the 2nd nutes
The plant will only use a small amout so you could start off with 1 tsp every other water

Calmag 2nd nutes and trace nutes used in a very small amout will give your plants a boost
could use 1 tsp every other water

I give my plants 1/2 tsp of Epsom salts, 1 tsp of bio buzz fish mix ( strong nutes) and 2 tsp of bloom (weak nutes) in 5ltrs of water
this is a very weak mix but this will give my plant a boost and keep the plant heathy in flower
 
M

Mjaylover

Active Member
Update:

I believe you were right jack as I did give them calmag one previous watering and the last watering as well and the soil plants look like they are recovering and the spots are not forming on the leaves anymore

Now to the ebb and flow system. I added phosphurous at a rather small amount 2 mls per gallon and they growth looks good over the last couple days and the top growth stems are becoming bendable and less purple.

The weird thing is my ppms and Ph are telling me something different. Over the last couple days the ph has been steady declining and the ppms have been staying the same or a tad more.

Right now I'm around 660 ppms and at 5.60 ph. I've already added ten gallons back to a 35 gallon reservoir and the ec started at 1.6 and Its around 1.3 now. So I'm wondering if the Ec still too strong or if the plants don't like the added phosphorous
 
M

Mjaylover

Active Member
Ph was 5.5 and ppms went up to 665. Plants look better as of last night Anyone know what's going on? I added another 5 gallons of water and added ph up to around 5.8 and ppms went down to 580

What are my plants trying to tell me?
 
jacksthc

jacksthc

Well-Known Member
sorry fellow only done a couple of hydro systems, but can answer the questions your asking

your roots can chose what it takes out the water or chose to drink the water and leave the nutes, unstanding how roots work is amazing
say you add a good mix of nutes at a low ec and the plants hungrey so it will eat lots of the nutes and only drink a little water

the ec will go down and thats fine, the ec can go down to 0.2 and the plants will still look heathy for day or two
depending on what nutes you use as the ec going down the ph may go or down

if the ec goes down the plants are using more nutes than water and if the ec goes up the plants drinking less water

if you get the nute mix right in a hydro system and let the ec drop, you should be on a winner

low water and high ec can happen very quick and will dammage a root sytem if not sorted in a short time and it can kill the plants

the temputer and humidty have a big impacted on how much water the plant drinks, in a hot room with low humidty the plants will drink double the amout of water compaired to a cool room with high humidty
 
M

Mjaylover

Active Member
Right now I have my tent set up better than ever before. Mini split Ac is in the tent so I can control the temp easily. Lights on is around 73-75 lights out is 69-71. Dehumidifier is in the tent so it's set to 50 and stays there all day and night. C02 controller controls the c02 and keeps a constant 900-1000ppms when lights are on.

I'm very familiar with the concept of how ph and ec works directly with the plant. Ph goes up and ec goes down=good. Ph down ec up=bad. The thing is the plants are well developed so why can't I run Lucas formula all the way through. A lot of people do the add back equation which would keep the ec constantly around 1.5-1.6.
 
M

Mjaylover

Active Member
Just checked and ph is at 5.66 and 610 ppms. Obviously something is wrong if it can jump that quick in one day



Edit: calibrated ph, ec, and ppms with all three calibrations liquids and got some different answers in the exact same solution

Ph. 5.78
Ec 1.34
Ppms 672
 
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