So your not refuting the 650,000 dead. Well halleauh! My post never said by coalition hands, and even some probably died of natural causes but do you think the number would be the same if we had never invaded. We have created the mailestorm, so basically we are responsible for all deaths that weren't accidental or natural, and I don't mean accidentally walking out your front door during a fire fight. How would you like enemy troops storming your neighborhood, looking for Insurgents which is what you'd be unless you were a coward, blowing up shit everywhere, and taking in to custody anyone they wanted, humiliating, and maybe even torturing your neighbors, and hiding so they didn,t get you. Put your self in the average Iraqis shoes, a shitstorm everywhere, friends and neighbors dying and killing each other with an enemy military force controlling everything including the puppet govt. supposidly in power. Wouldn't you want the foriegn military to leave.. The idea you have that we are actually helping the Iraqi people, is definently upside down. The best thing for everyone, except the Bush regime, is to cut and run. There is no Victory in Iraq period. call me a cut and run liberal, I'm proud to advocate this in this un-holy war. in fact most of the wars fought in the last 50 years by the U.S. govt, have been un-holy, the 2nd world war is the last noble war the US has participated in, to rid the world of hitler and Jappanese imperialism, Now the US has an Imperialism plan of it's own (natural resources, why bother with the land when you can just steal the natural resourses), pay off a dictatorship and reap the harvest. "I'm proud to be an American"! I'm not sure on that one, there are countries you better not go if they know you're an American, because they know it was American foriegn policy that made their country a dictatorial shitbox! I grew up being proud to be an American, it took the antics of the US Govt. to sway me. anyone that has been awake for the last 50 years would have to have witnessed the outright Piracy of Corporate America thrust on the third world, cheap labor (slave wages) and the aforementioned puppet govt.s propped up by US taxpayers while the Corporations make off with the loot The American people have been placated with the highest standard of living, (well it used to be) and fed bullshit by the govt. and the corporate controlled Press. Now that there seems to be a lowering of our standard of living, maybe the moronic American voters will see the facts. They've (govt. and press) hidden the truth so well that most people believe the bullshit. example: "the Viet Nam war: an unpopular war fought in southeast Asia that claimed 56,000 American lives" The one paragraph in my sons history book about Viet Nam. What other bullshit are they teaching our Kids. Once you've got control of the next generations minds, you've got free reign to proclaim all the Govt. and press tells you is gospel, thank God for higher Education, they encourage you to think, the only reason this country is not a total dictatorship, or maybe I should say corporationship. Opinions accepted, bullshit facts not!