Fox news. enter at your own risk.

[UncleBuck]

yep, he bought a million dollar vessel on is high school dropout wages, folks.

your classic self made republican who never got no help from nobody.

 

[Harrekin]

Bob owns Bob's Bakery. Bob has 4 employees, which he pays each of them $9.00 an hour. Bob's Bakery sells bagels, bread and these cute little muffins. His business is doing well, selling 300 bagels a day, on average, at $1.50 a bagel, sells 50 loaves of bread at $3.25 a loaf, and sells nearly 400 muffins a day at $1.50 a muffin.

If Bob raised each of his employee's salary to $18.00 an hour, and all 4 worked every day, for 8 hours a day, his salary expense each day would increase by $288.

Bob would then need to increase the price of his products by roughly 33% each without increasing sales to make up that salary expense.
So bagels now sell for $1.99, bread for $3.79 and muffins for $1.89. At these prices, Bob can pay his employees a living wage and actually realize a better profit without creating sticker shock pricing.

Obviously this example does not work for every business, then again not every business should be, in business.

Don't ever go into business...

 

[UncleBuck]

Don't ever go into business...

a little short on rebuttal.

a little short.

 

[see4]

Don't ever go into business...

Too late. I'm already doing quite well with two of them at the moment.
Your penis is very very tiny.

 

[TBoneJack]

Too late. I'm already doing quite well with two of them at the moment.
Your penis is very very tiny.

see, I don't question your successful businesses, but would your say your success owes more to your technical prowess, business savvy, or both?

As I recall, you have formal education in both areas. It just completely irks me to see anyone who has expertise in both. Jealousy on my part, I guess.

Disregard, if you wish. I mean no disrespect. I'm just curious.

 

[sheskunk]

Terrible argument

Not really an argument, more a reality of what happens.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Not really an argument, more a reality of what happens.

You presented that as a reason against raising the minimum wage

Why do conservatives tell people not to worry about how much other people make when income inequality is brought up, but then when the minimum wage increase is mentioned, all of a sudden those same conservatives are worried how much other people make?

Weird..

 

[sheskunk]

You presented that as a reason against raising the minimum wage

Why do conservatives tell people not to worry about how much other people make when income inequality is brought up, but then when the minimum wage increase is mentioned, all of a sudden those same conservatives are worried how much other people make?

Weird..

I presented it as a scenario of reality. I'm not sure what leads you to believe I am "against" an increase in minimum wage. I don't consider myself a "conservative" either.

So I'll ask you this. If minimum wage makes an increase of several dollars will everyone's wages increase?

I don't care what other people make, it just annoys me to hear people whine about things they can change themselves.

 

[UncleBuck]

I presented it as a scenario of reality.

you need to learn the difference between reality and hypothetical.

I'm not sure what leads you to believe I am "against" an increase in minimum wage. I don't consider myself a "conservative" either.

that's cute.

I If minimum wage makes an increase of several dollars will everyone's wages increase?

I don't care what other people make

lol.

direct contradiction.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I presented it as a scenario of reality. I'm not sure what leads you to believe I am "against" an increase in minimum wage. I don't consider myself a "conservative" either.

So I'll ask you this. If minimum wage makes an increase of several dollars will everyone's wages increase?

I don't care what other people make, it just annoys me to hear people whine about things they can change themselves.

If you support raising the minimum wage, what was the point of posting that scenario? It's pretty clear the implication from reading that is that if the minimum wage is raised it will harm people making close to the proposed raise, "poor Jack "

Raising the minimum wage helps everyone, not only those who earn more money directly. It helps small business owners by increasing their sales because people have more disposable income to spend, strengthening the economy

If minimum wage increases, anyone's wage who makes below that will increase. What exactly is the logic in the argument if the minimum wage increases it will harm those already making above that? Is it the fairness aspect, that it wouldn't be fair to raise one group's income and not the others, or that prices will rise effectively decreasing the purchasing power of those making the proposed minimum wage or near it? Or something else?

Individuals can change it, sure, but not everyone, not at the same time. That's just not how it works in the real world. Take my "ethics or profit first?" thread for example, that pretty much proves that there are some people out there that would pay their employees even less if they could legally get away with it just to increase profit margins. When I used to work retail, I would get a raise generally every 3-6 months, it was based on a 4 point system of your performance during that time, I never earned a 4, but I did earn a 3 which was a $.09/hour "raise". I don't imagine earning a 4 would be much more than that, and keep in mind, this was a multinational fortune 500 company..

A company that big that treats their employees like that is unacceptable. In many jobs, managers get bonuses if they decrease company costs, including things like raises. Effectively transferring the wealth that would have gone to me, to her because I had no power to negotiate. When I was hired I tried to negotiate for a higher wage up front, like so many here suggest, and the manager made it clear, take it or leave it. My coworker had served in the Army and had earned a BS in chemistry and was making cents above what I was making.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Thomas Piketty made a good point about education, he said it's important in bringing the bottom percentage of income earners into higher economic classes, but it only remains effective to a certain point, for example, kindergarten teachers and hedge fund managers have generally pretty similar levels of education but one makes substantially more amounts of money (I believe I read an article recently that said the top 25 hedge fund managers in the US make more money than every kindergarten teacher in America combined http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2015/05/12/the-top-25-hedge-fund-managers-earn-more-than-all-kindergarten-teachers-combined/ )

The key to sustaining a middle class lifestyle used to be education, now there is no such guarantee, especially considering the increase in cost of college tuition and the student debt many students leave college with, inflation and cost of living increases.

 

[sheskunk]

I was just wondering how the people who have worked hard to get higher pay will feel if new hires come in at the same rate that people with seniority have worked to earn.

An employee works for what he agrees to work for. Nobody is "forced" to work for anybody. If you work for low pay it is up to YOU to do better for yourself.

I am not against higher pay, I am against whiners. If you don't like how the company is run, don't work there.

 

[UncleBuck]

I was just wondering how the people who have worked hard to get higher pay will feel if new hires come in at the same rate that people with seniority have worked to earn.

good job on directly parroting the other right winger's talking point.

i'm sure your concerns are 100% motivated by pure empathy for the workers.

 

[UncleBuck]

I was just wondering how the people who have worked hard to get higher pay will feel if new hires come in at the same rate that people with seniority have worked to earn.....If you work for low pay it is up to YOU to do better for yourself.

also, isn't it up to the person making just above the new min wage to go better themselves and earn more?

or does that only apply to the min wage earners, and not the slightly above min wage earners?

will your endless whining help?

LOWL.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I was just wondering how the people who have worked hard to get higher pay will feel if new hires come in at the same rate that people with seniority have worked to earn.

An employee works for what he agrees to work for. Nobody is "forced" to work for anybody. If you work for low pay it is up to YOU to do better for yourself.

I am not against higher pay, I am against whiners. If you don't like how the company is run, don't work there.

How people will feel about it is irrelevant. Couldn't that same argument be used against the whole idea of a minimum wage? If someone feels angry that the baseline is moved up to a living wage, shouldn't that person be happy more people are able to afford their bills and food and contribute to the economy? That's how I would feel

Unfortunately "take it or leave it" is the real world and when it comes to working a job with a shitty salary or working no job at all, EVERYONE will take the shitty salary because people have to eat. That gives employers all the leverage when it comes to negotiating wages. You're proposing a false choice.

The avenues to better yourself are more expensive than most people working minimum wage jobs can afford, or they don't have the necessary amount of time because they're working 2 or 3 jobs. Under these circumstances, it's the government's responsibility to better the odds for American citizens through things like minimum wage increases, quality job training programs, free higher education, free healthcare and daycare for people with kids, etc. There are dozens of things the government could do that would yield solutions to this problem.

Again, sometimes people don't have a choice

 

[abandonconflict]

Bob owns Bob's Bakery. Bob has 4 employees, which he pays each of them $9.00 an hour. Bob's Bakery sells bagels, bread and these cute little muffins. His business is doing well, selling 300 bagels a day, on average, at $1.50 a bagel, sells 50 loaves of bread at $3.25 a loaf, and sells nearly 400 muffins a day at $1.50 a muffin.

If Bob raised each of his employee's salary to $18.00 an hour, and all 4 worked every day, for 8 hours a day, his salary expense each day would increase by $288.

Bob would then need to increase the price of his products by roughly 33% each without increasing sales to make up that salary expense.
So bagels now sell for $1.99, bread for $3.79 and muffins for $1.89. At these prices, Bob can pay his employees a living wage and actually realize a better profit without creating sticker shock pricing.

Obviously this example does not work for every business, then again not every business should be, in business.

But we're not just talking macroeconomics. In a market, with a raised minimum wage, a huge portion of the population will have twice as much money, which translates to far more than double the disposable income. Bakeries create products for working class consumers. If most of the working class consumers have twice as much money to spend, bakeries just like all businesses which create products targeted at working class consumers will now be operating in a market with that much more demand for goods and services.

Would you rather open up a bakery in a place where people have lots of money to spend? Or would you prefer to run a business that sells goods geared towards the working class in a locale where these consumers are strapped for cash?

 

[abandonconflict]

Care to attach some data to that?

All I see is leftist redistribution.

What is being redistributed? Workers not earning a living wage is redistribution.

Here is an example of sales increasing as a result of a higher minimum wage. Aggregate demand explains it.

http://www.icenews.is/2014/06/07/mcdonalds-denmark-sees-rise-in-profits/

 

[ChesusRice]

Fuck no I haven't inherited a fucking thing. Thats your friend bucky that believes in fairy tales that likes to make up stories about people that he doesn't know at all, and some how thinks he knows something that he doesn't know at all. But I think you know that, and if you need to know my parents are alive and well, so some day I will inherit something, but who the fuck knows? bucky sure as the fuck don't know, and that is for dam sure.

We are on the same page about bringing jobs home. I was against NAFTA from the beginning and I am afraid the damage has been done and it will take decades to bring those jobs back to where it will help people that need it. imo

I have been doing my part of buying american made trucks, cars, equipment and I will continue to support americans when I can . Anyway I appreciate your thoughts that have stayed on topic, and I hope it continues.

those jobs are never ever coming back

 

[sheskunk]

How people will feel about it is irrelevant. Couldn't that same argument be used against the whole idea of a minimum wage? If someone feels angry that the baseline is moved up to a living wage, shouldn't that person be happy more people are able to afford their bills and food and contribute to the economy? That's how I would feel

Unfortunately "take it or leave it" is the real world and when it comes to working a job with a shitty salary or working no job at all, EVERYONE will take the shitty salary because people have to eat. That gives employers all the leverage when it comes to negotiating wages. You're proposing a false choice.

The avenues to better yourself are more expensive than most people working minimum wage jobs can afford, or they don't have the necessary amount of time because they're working 2 or 3 jobs. Under these circumstances, it's the government's responsibility to better the odds for American citizens through things like minimum wage increases, quality job training programs, free higher education, free healthcare and daycare for people with kids, etc. There are dozens of things the government could do that would yield solutions to this problem.

Again, sometimes people don't have a choice

Free, free, free ....

Not everyone takes the "shitty" salary. There is always another option. Always.

There are plenty of people who have worked their way up to a livable wage all on their own.

I'm all for paying people more money. Why wouldn't I be? But sometimes you have to WORK for it.

 

[sheskunk]

But we're not just talking macroeconomics. In a market, with a raised minimum wage, a huge portion of the population will have twice as much money, which translates to far more than double the disposable income. Bakeries create products for working class consumers. If most of the working class consumers have twice as much money to spend, bakeries just like all businesses which create products targeted at working class consumers will now be operating in a market with that much more demand for goods and services.

Would you rather open up a bakery in a place where people have lots of money to spend? Or would you prefer to run a business that sells goods geared towards the working class in a locale where these consumers are strapped for cash?

"twice as much money"?

"more than double the disposable income"?

Another math genius here folks.