Do you believe Americans who work full time should earn a living wage?

[see4]

Well check it out me and my lady come from poverty poor ass white trash familys and together we pull in 55k a year she makes slightly less then me but understandable since i work construction we are both 22 yrs old tho so for us its great, being from a poor ass family and me being a ex dope head addict convict im very happy to have what i do have, my girl makes alil over min wage and she dosent bitch at all she works harder to to get raises. So honestly id say ur background has no pertaining knowledge to where u end up in life its all about how bad u want to live better, u work more u will get payed more u work hard u can be payed better. Minimum wage is fucked up but if u want more u will get it.

Right on dude. That's how you take life by the balls. And at 22 no less. You'll do just fine in life.

 

[gunnar&carey]

A

Now your just being silly with the $16 an hour ice cream scooper , even big mac land , the sad thing is adults are seeking jobs that were historically reserved for school kids & 18 yr olds .

The kinda jobs im speaking of are manufacturing & construction workers like Gunner&cary , i have a Journeymans card in his field & know for a fact he is being underpaid by atleast 30% as high as 50% ,his union wage would be around $30 an hour for the same work .

My career as a project site Superintendent opened my eyes big time to corporate greed , im talking about $500 million dollar projects won or lost over $50,000 on a regular basis .

Ive compared bids from non union companys that are allways within 1% or less than the union companys bids , how can this be when the non union contractors pay their men 30% to 50% less per hour ? All other costs are hard nailed by the architects material specifications , the only variable is labor & the union shop i worked for was able to pay $30 to $70 an hour wages & still rank 9th in the world for profitability vs volume of work .

Where is all the money going from the companys that charge the same yet pay workers 50% less ?

My bosses were sickeningly rich with houses all over the world , they live like tycoons & are able to pay fair wages & line the investors pockets heavily at the same time .

I'd bet money most here who think corporate America pays its blue collar workers fairly are pencil pushers , well the modern version which is keyboard pokers & do not perform physical labor for a living .

The dirty guy is stupid so fuck him right ?
Dont worry though im used to it , even though i spent over 10 yrs in school learning my 3 trades my schooling dont mean shit on the pay scale compared to 4 yr school suit & tie pencil necks , manual labor means ignorance nowdays .

Amen brother ima roofer and i get looked down on for busting my ass and gettin down and dirty hahaha shits a straight up shame that if u bust ur ass ur lookd down apon but if ur all black ties and suits ur something special, remember ppl WE ARE ALL EQUAL!! If this was a fend for urself world tho man ppl like me and u with endless skills in" dirt" trades would always survive

 

[tightpockt]

(3 of 3)

V
The problem is a collective one, everybody can't just "get a different fucking job!", if they could, they would

I agree with almost everything in that article. I know the market is unfairly influenced but we're talking about two different things.
He's talking about politics and how the uber-large corporations have too much influence and power in politics which skew the economic landscape in their favor through manipulating policies. I agree with all of that.
I still don't think the government can mandate what a private business should pay their employees.
If you want to talk about restructuring policies which give the employee more bargaining power, i'm all for it. That's what I've been saying this whole time: bargaining power. Right now the minimum wage employee doesn't have it and that's not because of the market or policies. It's because there will always be someone to fill their shoes no matter how high or low the 'minimum' is.
If you double the minimum wage you would endanger countless small businesses and price minimum wage workers out of a job.

 

[gunnar&carey]

Right on dude. That's how you take life by the balls. And at 22 no less. You'll do just fine in life.

I just kno i want more then what my family had and im willing to brake teeth to get it, but thanks man

 

[panhead]

NYC will always be my city. .

Mine too , i traveled the country & the world for over 20 yrs working for Skanska Global & NYC is my all time favorite place .

The high class hookers there make the cat house bitches in Vegas look like mongoloid water heads .

My damm wife can wipe out $10k on fashion ave in about half a day .

 

[gunnar&carey]

I love hearing about minimum wage, hookers,and the wife. Lol shits great anyone else notice how off track potheads get hahaha

 

[see4]

Mine too , i traveled the country & the world for over 20 yrs working for Skanska Global & NYC is my all time favorite place .

The high class hookers there make the cat house bitches in Vegas look like mongoloid water heads .

My damm wife can wipe out $10k on fashion ave in about half a day .

I had a $1000 a week coke habit that I thoroughly enjoyed while living in midtown circa 2001. I loved that I could come home from work around 6pm, run downstairs and go across the street to my favorite sushi bar, eat and get soaked in sake for an hour, head back up stairs, bang out a few rails, pregame, head out at 10pm, drink and do coke until 2am, go get a bite to eat, come home, fuck, do more coke, drink some more, then head back downstairs and go eat at the same sushi place at 4am. Literally no other place like it on earth.

Not a chance in hell my body could handle that nonsense anymore, but I still dream about it. Now I love it for different reasons. My closest friends still live in the area, and I love going back and just getting lost in the crowd. Around here I stick out like a sore thumb.

 

[tightpockt]

Now your just being silly with the $16 an hour ice cream scooper , even big mac land , the sad thing is adults are seeking jobs that were historically reserved for school kids & 18 yr olds .

The kinda jobs im speaking of are manufacturing & construction workers like Gunner&cary , i have a Journeymans card in his field & know for a fact he is being underpaid by atleast 30% as high as 50% ,his union wage would be around $30 an hour for the same work .

My career as a project site Superintendent opened my eyes big time to corporate greed , im talking about $500 million dollar projects won or lost over $50,000 on a regular basis .

Ive compared bids from non union companys that are allways within 1% or less than the union companys bids , how can this be when the non union contractors pay their men 30% to 50% less per hour ? All other costs are hard nailed by the architects material specifications , the only variable is labor & the union shop i worked for was able to pay $30 to $70 an hour wages & still rank 9th in the world for profitability vs volume of work .

Where is all the money going from the companys that charge the same yet pay workers 50% less ?

My bosses were sickeningly rich with houses all over the world , they live like tycoons & are able to pay fair wages & line the investors pockets heavily at the same time .

I'd bet money most here who think corporate America pays its blue collar workers fairly are pencil pushers , well the modern version which is keyboard pokers & do not perform physical labor for a living .

The dirty guy is stupid so fuck him right ?
Dont worry though im used to it , even though i spent over 10 yrs in school learning my 3 trades my schooling dont mean shit on the pay scale compared to 4 yr school suit & tie pencil necks , manual labor means ignorance nowdays .

I'm not being silly. That's what we're talking about here. This thread is about raising the minimum wage. Some want it raised to $15 an hour. So again, I ask should the government force an owner of an ice cream shop to pay a 16 year old $15 an hour for scooping ice cream? Should a pizza shop owner be forced to pay a counter person $15 to hand out slices?
Nothing but respect for "blue" collar workers. Some of the best problem solvers around.
I don't have a problem with unions. I would encourage every employee to unionize. What I do have a problem with is when unions feel they have a special right to work.
In philly the unions here are run more like the mob than a business.

 

[panhead]

Oh more NYC cool shit , its the only place in the world where a cop was nice to me when i was out of control , traffic was hammered so me & a few guys on my crew who rode HD's hit the sidewalk on our bikes , we come to an intersection & a Japaneese news crew was doing some kinda on the spot reporting shit , every time the female journalist tried to speak we all revved our engines & drowned her out , that went on for all of 5 minutes till some cops on huge ass horses came galloping up , i thought we were fucked , we had Detroit plates & were all on the sidewalk with loud Harleys so here comes the mandatory beatdown .

Cops were cool as hell , when we told em we were looking for someplace to park so we could go see the pit from the trade center they let us all park right on the street & 2 of em watched our scooters for like 3 hours till we got back .

Ive had nothing but great fun every time i visited NYC .

 

[gunnar&carey]

Oh more NYC cool shit , its the only place in the world where a cop was nice to me when i was out of control , traffic was hammered so me & a few guys on my crew who rode HD's hit the sidewalk on our bikes , we come to an intersection & a Japaneese news crew was doing some kinda on the spot reporting shit , every time the female journalist tried to speak we all revved our engines & drowned her out , that went on for all of 5 minutes till some cops on huge ass horses came galloping up , i thought we were fucked , we had Detroit plates & were all on the sidewalk with loud Harleys so here comes the mandatory beatdown .

Cops were cool as hell , when we told em we were looking for someplace to park so we could go see the pit from the trade center they let us all park right on the street & 2 of em watched our scooters for like 3 hours till we got back .

Ive had nothing but great fun every time i visited NYC .

NYC is full of transvestites,cocaine and good times lol at least so my brother tells me i wouldn't kno ive only been on the west coast and now denver

 

[tightpockt]

C.R.E.A.M.

 

[panhead]

I'm not being silly. That's what we're talking about here. This thread is about raising the minimum wage. Some want it raised to $15 an hour. So again, I ask should the government force an owner of an ice cream shop to pay a 16 year old $15 an hour for scooping ice cream? Should a pizza shop owner be forced to pay a counter person $15 to hand out slices?
Nothing but respect for "blue" collar workers. Some of the best problem solvers around.
I don't have a problem with unions. I would encourage every employee to unionize. What I do have a problem with is when unions feel they have a special right to work.
In philly the unions here are run more like the mob than a business.

Allright i get what your sayng & were kinda talking about 2 different things , im not thinking of little mom & pop shops with $100k to $200k pretax & pre labor income , im speaking about large corporations like wallmart or shitmart as i like to call it , that corp could easily absorb the $15 an hour & still be extremely responsible to its investors , a few top ceo's may have to take 10% pay cuts & give up their multi million dollar golden parachutes but it is easily worked out just by looking at their bottom line .

Up until last year i owned & operated several business with a total of 6 full time employees , we own 2 self storage facilities where 3 employees run both locations & 2 make $17 an hour & the 3rd makes $16 an hour , we net about $200k from both locations after tax & easily afford those wages for 3 people who rent out storage space not rocket science .

Our other business is high end upper middle class rental homes , we currently own 23 homes & employ 2 full time Journeymen ( Brother in laws ) to maintain the propertys , they also remodel the homes we buy & flip , thats when the 3rd employee of that business works , both tradesmen make above scale , one makes over $70k a yr & the other a little over $50k , i could get the work done at half the cost but i value the unquestioned quality of workmanship , i value their dedication to perfection even if it means working overtime for free , when we flip a house it comes with a 2 yr guarentee of all work done which is a whole year more than the national standard , that gives us the edge over other flippers who half ass a house & we are able to charge premium prices , without the highly paid & unsupervised tradesmen who retrofit these homes we buy we'd be just another house flipper making 20% returns vs the 35% to 40% returns we strive for & allmost allways achieve .

Ive got a 6th grade formal education & if my old ass can create multiple businesses from scratch , make them very profitable & at the same time pay our employees above average wages it shouldnt be too hard for big corporations with a thousand six figure suits running around with big college learnins

I had some union cats from philly work for me in Jersey once & one dudes accent was Rocky Balboa x10 , he sent me a voice mail i never could figure out wtf he was talking about , something about going down to the sho .

 

[ttystikk]

I know of one employer who tells his employees that he only wants 80K/year after all the bills are paid. Anything beyond that gets split among the rest every year.

Never heard of it before or since.

How well did his company run?

 

[Padawanbater2]

I agree with almost everything in that article. I know the market is unfairly influenced but we're talking about two different things.
He's talking about politics and how the uber-large corporations have too much influence and power in politics which skew the economic landscape in their favor through manipulating policies. I agree with all of that.
I still don't think the government can mandate what a private business should pay their employees.
If you want to talk about restructuring policies which give the employee more bargaining power, i'm all for it. That's what I've been saying this whole time: bargaining power. Right now the minimum wage employee doesn't have it and that's not because of the market or policies. It's because there will always be someone to fill their shoes no matter how high or low the 'minimum' is.
If you double the minimum wage you would endanger countless small businesses and price minimum wage workers out of a job.

You're saying two opposing ideas; you favor changing policy to benefit workers - ie. increasing their wages, but you oppose raising the minimum wage because it will endanger small businesses and cost jobs

Higher wages is the goal of changing the policy. The CPI increase is marginal and doesn't justify stagnating wages while inflation increases and the cost of living rises. Not to mention the burden shifted onto the American taxpayer in the form of social relief for workers making low wages who rely on government assistance. Why should the poor/middle class pick up the slack for corporations who pay their employees such low wages? Don't you think that burden should remain with them? If I had a company and I paid my workers so little they needed government assistance, do you think that would be OK?

The most important thing to remember is that the economic growth is there, it's always been there, except for the past 35 years it's gone to the most wealthy members of society because they hold positions of power strong enough to influence government economic policy in their favor. Do you think it's an accident 97% of economic growth went to the top 10% of earners this past decade? That number has steadily increased since the late 1970s. A bigger piece of the share for the extremely wealthy as time progresses, a smaller piece of the share for everyone else. Look at the graphs I posted, that's what the numbers show. The goal is to shift those numbers back to stable, where everyone prospers, not just the extremely rich.

 

[bearkat42]

I don't have a problem with unions. I would encourage every employee to unionize.

If every employee actually did unionize, then an "ice cream scooper" would make $16/hr.

 

[racerboy71]

View attachment 3412897

flavio briatore, f1 pimp daddy extraordinaire ...

 

[NewtoMJ]

not really.

care to guess what the minimum wage is in denmark and what the cost of a big mac is over there?

Denmark has different laws than we do here in the United States. I don't know how comparable the two are in that sense.

that's not the point, the point is to put dignity into working for a living instead of making them stand in line for public assistance after working 40 hours.

I agree, but until our backwards corporate laws are addressed, I don't think things will change for the better.

"But since 2000, the real average hourly wages of young college graduates have dropped. The entry-level wages of female college graduates have dropped by more than 8 percent, and male graduates by more than 6.5 percent. To state it another way, while a college education has become a prerequisite for joining the middle class, it is no longer a sure means for gaining ground once admitted to it. That’s largely because the middle class’s share of the total economic pie continues to shrink, while the share going to the top continues to grow."

"Myth: Increasing the minimum wage is bad for the economy.

Not true: Since 1938, the federal minimum wage has been increased 22 times. For more than 75 years, real GDP per capita has steadily increased, even when the minimum wage has been raised."

http://www.dol.gov/minwage/mythbuster.htm

I agree, that a college degree is not a guarantee, but it's better than the shot they have now with our current legislation regarding profits and shareholders.
And the page you link, the only number I see them talking about in terms of increasing minimum wage is $10.10. I don't believe that is a liveable wage. I also dont think the minimum wage has increased as much as it would need to in order to become a liveable wage, in a single increase.

So, define "maximize profits"? Do you mean the maximize short term profits or maximize return over many years? What's going on right now is maximize short term profits at expense of long term.

One of the factors in the hollowing out of this country is that low wages give people much incentive to leave a company and destroys incentive to give extra effort. Just extra hours isn't what I'm getting at.

I worked for a company that had a profit sharing program, it was also a top performing company and well respected. Some of the profit was plowed into a pension plan some payed out every six months. Company does well, more is put into the pension, better payout. It was common for workers at all levels to say something like: that's going to cut into profit sharing when they saw waste and they did something about it. Later on, when Wall Street sharpies got control of the Board, they eliminated profit sharing altogether. Along with abusive layoffs and cuts in wages and along with increased bonuses to the CEO, the attitude of employees dropped. Fuckem was the mantra when we saw waste. We weren't going to do anything about it, we already working our asses off just to keep our jobs. At the end of 10 years, this company is stagnant. Workforce has turned over and none of the old spirit remains. It's on its way down and nobody cares, not the shareholders, not the management and especially not the workers. About three years ago, I tendered my resignation. My boss panicked and sought to get me to change my mind. He offered a 10% increase if I'd stay another year...10% was more than I'd seen in total increases over 5 previous years. My reply: "what about don't want to work here and don't need the money don't you understand?". Companies aren't just financial entities to be managed like banks. People work there, good people at all levels. Real managers like the ones I worked for before the change empowered workers and rewarded them. They also treated firings like the plague. The result was a creative, committed workforce that gave the company what it really needed -- they gave the company everything including their creativity and desire to succeed.

This idea of people's right to a living wage isn't going away. It's going to be debated in several ways. The right tends to simplify the argument, like it always does. Their argument -- if everybody received a living wage, nobody would have an incentive to work hard -- bullshit. If management treated people like they were more than a nuisance, they would get more than their body during the time at work. The people in Germany have pretty strong unions, a strong medical system, a good pension. Those workers are damn good at what they do and they compete about as well as anybody anywhere. They are proud of their company, their work and their country. Pay at least a living wage and find incentives that give people something more to work for than the incentive to find a better paying job elsewhere and you'll see good results in this country.

I agree with you, but until we start looking at our corporate laws, talking about increases in wages and such are just going to get us nowhere.

 

[ttystikk]

Those numbers dont lie thats a pitty its our government doing this to us

Not the government; it's who is DIRECTING government- and as Mr Reich and others have pointed out, the money flowing from corporate power is what is directing government.

 

[Fogdog]

View attachment 3412897

Sheskunk, I'm in no way castigating you for your post. You were trying to make a point and a funny. I get and appreciate the humor. But bear with me while I borrow your images for a bit. And kill the buzz -- sorry

The idea of a living wage means that nobody's daughter would have to sell their services to a fatass goat in order to live. It's a paradigm shift away from the threat of poverty to keep people working. If your daughter got into meth and found herself without good prospects after you kicked her out of your home, under a living wage policy, she could clean up and find a decent living doing whatever. Right now, an addict has two strikes against them -- the addiction and the lost time in her youth. Under today's policy, without great education, experience and good fortune, living wage jobs are difficult to find and your meth addicted daughter might not make it. Your joke is that an attractive woman without other skills can sell access to her vagina to rich fat men. But I'd rather that living wage jobs be available so that doesn't happen unless she loved that man..

 

[Fogdog]

I agree with you, but until we start looking at our corporate laws, talking about increases in wages and such are just going to get us nowhere.

Yes, changes to corporate laws and perhaps other structural changes to the economy would be necessary to make this work. I'm just going with the thought experiment. I don't know enough to suggest how it can be done but I like the conversation. What's clear is the status quo is driving us into a bad place.