Why do HID lights have better penetration?

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apoulin

apoulin

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SupraSPL said:
I did test UVB a few times in the past using LED + reptile bulb. There was no miraculous increase in cannabinoids versus straight LED. I was growing the same varieties as some of my friends were running under straight HPS and none of their customers were complaining about the potency of those cuts under straight HPS.

So I asked myself why am I dealing this extra gadgetry hanging in my canopy and wasting Watts. On top of that, there was a noticeable increase in cannabinoids and terpenes comparing the same varieties under HPS and LED. So I attributed that to the 450nm blue which is included in white COBs. In other words, with straight LED you may be able to get the best of both worlds, the trich increase and the high efficiency, without the gadgetry (hard to spread UVB into your whole canopy evenly and with good intensity).

That said I very much encourage experimentation and I am open to the possibility of being wrong, so by all means if you are convinced about UVB don't let my experience discourage you, keep testing and sharing info :leaf:
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Yea, unfortunately I am flying in the dark over here. I have no comparisons to show or years of experience one way or the other to share. I have no idea if my $35 UVB light investment will pay off, and improve or *LOOK* like anything is improved. All I can say is 90% of the time I am only running my COBs and the rest of the time I am adding the supplemental UVB.
I have often wondered if I should just add some low wattage COBs to substitute for the UVB lamp. I do love my COBs:bigjoint:

I have a couple updated pics of some of the nugs, the smallest one is a lower branch below the canopy.

:peace:bongsmilie
 

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apoulin

apoulin

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Greengenes707 said:
I have been charging ~1500$ for 600w super panels(12 cxb3070 at 1400ma). Based on if using reflectors, housings, and other "extras". No options on drivers...they get meanwell hlg's unless they personally ask. Its really hard to offer a truly better product while still under selling the current best in productions panels. But they have to commit to things for long term. I can implement the newest as soon as its available.

They get bulk pricing...but pay overhead
I don't pay overhead...but I don't get good bulk deals.
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Start a kickstart project or something similar. I have seen a lot of them for automated growing systems and grow lights.

The fact is the wealth of knowledge available here, the experience and the analysis of so many different COBs and drivers. We are the R&D dept:mrgreen:

I believe you could provide a more powerful light, with a better spectrum, more efficient panel & driver combo that would be producing virtually the same amount of power for how much longer than bulbs?

I also think safety is a big factor for the less technically inclined growers, with the professional builds you and other members are putting together that should not be a concern.

Plus that would be a pretty bad ass job, sitting at home building LED lamps for your own customers. Beats any 9-5 I know of!

I have learned so much from you and others, there is no sales pitch, only numbers backed by calculations that prove they are/can be better than any big manufacturer. Sounds like a recipe for success to me!


:peace:bongsmilie
 
AquariusPanta

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
I have been charging ~1500$ for 600w super panels(12 cxb3070 at 1400ma). Based on if using reflectors, housings, and other "extras". No options on drivers...they get meanwell hlg's unless they personally ask. Its really hard to offer a truly better product while still under selling the current best in productions panels. But they have to commit to things for long term. I can implement the newest as soon as its available.

They get bulk pricing...but pay overhead
I don't pay overhead...but I don't get good bulk deals.
Click to expand...
How does one buy a fixture from you? Website or PM?
 
C

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
I would refuse to make this guy a DIY unit for any price. No soup for you. He keeps asking why DIY is better, despite having that answered already. "I just can't understand why. I just can't understand why". Fuck off. Rahz, I really recommend not dealing with this guy.

The fact is he's offering such shitty terms to the builder... I'd tell him to fuck off. Fuck off bro.. Ask nicer than that if you can't make one yourself. Go to the extreme left. NEXT!
 
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apoulin

apoulin

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
I would refuse to make this guy a DIY unit for any price. No soup for you. He keeps asking why DIY is better, despite having that answered already. "I just can't understand why. I just can't understand why". Fuck off. Rahz, I really recommend not dealing with this guy.

The fact is he's offering such shitty terms to the builder... I'd tell him to fuck off. Fuck off bro.. Ask nicer than that if you can't make one yourself. Go to the extreme left. NEXT!
Click to expand...
:lol::lol::lol:


:peace:bongsmilie
 
OGEvilgenius

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
I did test UVB a few times in the past using LED + reptile bulb. There was no miraculous increase in cannabinoids versus straight LED. I was growing the same varieties as some of my friends were running under straight HPS and none of their customers were complaining about the potency of those cuts under straight HPS.

So I asked myself why am I dealing this extra gadgetry hanging in my canopy and wasting Watts. On top of that, there was a noticeable increase in cannabinoids and terpenes comparing the same varieties under HPS and LED. So I attributed that to the 450nm blue which is included in white COBs. In other words, with straight LED you may be able to get the best of both worlds, the trich increase and the high efficiency, without the gadgetry (hard to spread UVB into your whole canopy evenly and with good intensity).

That said I very much encourage experimentation and I am open to the possibility of being wrong, so by all means if you are convinced about UVB don't let my experience discourage you, keep testing and sharing info :leaf:
Click to expand...
It's less about cannabinoids, although sure, why not those too. More about a complete spectrum to help in the never ending battle against molds of various types. Not that I have big problems with PM (and I never see botrytis), but every bit helps.

I haven't smoked anything under COBs so I can't really comment on that.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Never thought of it from that perspective, maybe add a UVC lamp inline with the air system. I have not been an advocate of sterile growing systems, as you said never-ending battle Id rather not fight. I do everything I can to keep humidity down though. Bring in outside air when it is dry and run the dehumidifier when it is humid or hot outside.
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
As for UVB additions. I used them on this last run. And noticed a huge difference in just a couple days. So much so that I had to move them around the garden to even out the effect. It was totally visually noticeable.

IMG_5590 2.jpg IMG_5617.jpg

The coverage of UVB is pretty good too.

UV increases by ~4% for every ~900ft you rise in elevation.
 
alesh

alesh

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
Thanks @alesh ! A lower LER than I expected. So if we go by their claim umol/S, we get: 1.4/4.59 = 30.5% efficient. But if we go by their lumen data 59lumen/W / 235 LER = 25% efficiency. So if we average it and go with 28% efficient, here is where we are:

Indagrow 420 in a 4X4 (without pontoon)
378W * .28 = 106 PAR W
106 * .7 reflector loss = 74 PAR W (reflector penalty may be higher in practice)
74/16 = 4.63 PAR W/ft²
4.63 * 4.59 umol/s/W = 21.25
21.25 * 10.7 = 227.4 PPFD averaged

Indagrow 40W pontoon
36W * .3 = 10.8 PAR W
10.8 * .9 lens loss = 9.7 PAR W
9.7/16 = .61 PAR W/ft²
.61 * 5.5 umol/s/W = 3.36
3.36 * 10.7 = 35.9 PPFD averaged


So to answer your question:

Indagrow 420 in a 4X4 with pontoon:
227+35.9 = 263 PPFD averaged

Indagrow 420 in a 3X3 with pontoon:
468 PPFD averaged
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I should have added that the original SPD chart I used was small and not the best quality. The error margin is a little larger than usual. Does someone has the HQ SPD chart?
 
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