Anyone used Kind LED lamps?

JimmyIndica

JimmyIndica

Well-Known Member
I own the K5 750 and fell for the new KIND K5 750 with uv/ir and mix of 3 and 5 watt chips! Blah blah blah. The Kind is still old tech at new tech prices! The 750 is 430 watts and covers a 2ft6 x 3ft 6in for flower! I have 2 Area51 RW150 covering the same area but with 120 less watts! The spectrum of the K5 is just off for flowering! There are too many blues. I use my KIND K5 750 I bought for $1150 for vegging! Its the best veg fixture I ever used! The tight internodes and bushy and strong plants it produces in veg are great! I could have bought 3 RW150s for the same price as the KIND K5! The companies that don't go COB now! will be out business in 2 years! Price per watt! KIND K5 750 at 2.90 per watt! and RW150 at 2.74! Its not very hard too find the best! Apache Tech,Optic Lighting, Area51,----------onyx , amare ------then Blackdog,Kind,Cali Lightworks, Hydro grow, PLATINUM Advanced . Oh and there knockoff advanced LED! Or is it the other way? IF u got shit load $ buy Apache! If your like me and most not rich,buy Optics Vero29/CXA3070 or Area51 RW series or wait for A51s Vero29 to come out! Its all very simple!
 

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Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Hgrow said:
Yeah, they are XPE . A 5 year old chip ,but it means they make their LED Grow light with Cree led chips and top quality one , area 51 with Cree , AdvancedLED with Cree , both are good quality and well-known by growers .
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No it doesn't and that is my point. It means they use crees, so reliable...but that is it...nothing about performance. Not every cree is the golden ticket. And even within the same model line(like xpe), the difference in top and low bins makes them basically completely different chips as far as your yields are concerned.

A51 is the only company confirming bin. And they only one worth trusting out of what you listed.
 
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cityworker415

cityworker415

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
No it doesn't and that is my point. It means they use crees, so reliable...but that is it...nothing about performance. Not every cree is the golden ticket. And even within the same model line(like xpe), the difference in top and low bins makes them basically completely different chips as far as your yields are concerned.

A51 is the only company confirming bin. And they only one worth trusting out of what you listed.
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If mine ever grenades we can all have a blast dismantling it!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Rollitup mobile app
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
They do. In addition, they offer a lifetime parts replacement:



That is a lifetime warranty. There is no legal definition for that term.[1] It provides a benefit that is not available to non-owners of the light. Just because you insist that the benefit should be 100% replacement doesn't mean that a warranty isn't being made (to replace both defective and worn parts at cost.).

Your use of the term is illustrated by the latter of this juxtaposition: "A lifetime warranty is usually a warranty against defects in materials and workmanship that has no time limit to make a claim, rather than a warranty that the product will perform for the lifetime of the buyer."[2]

As I said: I will continue to use the appropriate term (lifetime warranty). You will remain free to explain why you believe "no time limit to make a claim" must mean 100% free replacement as if the light were warrantied to perform for for a lifetime.

(And, how you should be able to sit in an all-you-can-eat buffet for a couple days because "All" means ALL.).

[1] Consumer Reports: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2010/january/shopping/lifetime-warranties/overview/lifetime-warranties-ov.htm
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warranty#Lifetime_warranty
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The appropriate term is "limited lifetime warranty" as is clearly stated on their website.
Non-owners of the light can also buy the parts and install them. So, the "lifetime warranty" you talk about is of no further benefit than what a non-purchaser would get. They do not replace the parts. You must purchase them. They do not repair the lamps, you must do so. Why you keep blathering about buffets is a mystery. You CAN eat all you want as long as you are there. They do not, however, offer overnight accommodations. You are a very stubborn person.
 
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az2000

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
The appropriate term is "limited lifetime warranty" as is clearly stated on their website. ... Why you keep blathering about buffets is a mystery.
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Any lifetime warranty is limited. That was the point of the links I posted. That's why I keep referring to all-you-can-eat buffets. There are limits on that as well (must be in one visit the duration of which is not unlimited, eaten on premises, etc.). That goes without saying because nobody expects a free light in perpetuity, nor sit at a buffet all day.

Red1966 said:
Non-owners of the light can also buy the parts and install them.
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That's a point without a distinction. Non-owners have no reason to purchase the parts. At one time Jeff considered making replacement modules for common Chinese import lights. The question is what he would charge for such a module offered for retail sale versus "at cost" warranty support.

It's reasonable to assume that "at cost" means something he wouldn't offer for retail sale. Turning that into "well... someone could...." is just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Red1966 said:
You are a very stubborn person.
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We both are. We're just defending different points of view. I feel more comfortable with mine than yours. It's no more complicated than that. Good luck with yours.
 
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Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
az2000 said:
Any lifetime warranty is limited. That was the point of the links I posted. That's why I keep referring to all-you-can-eat buffets. There are limits on that as well (must be in one visit the duration of which is not unlimited, eaten on premises, etc.). That goes without saying because nobody expects a free light in perpetuity, nor sit at a buffet all day.



That's a point without a distinction. Non-owners have no reason to purchase the parts. At one time Jeff considered making replacement modules for common Chinese import lights. The question is what he would charge for such a module offered for retail sale versus "at cost" warranty support.

It's reasonable to assume that "at cost" means something he wouldn't offer for retail sale. Turning that into "well... someone could...." is just arguing for the sake of arguing.



We both are. We're just defending different points of view. I feel more comfortable with mine than yours. It's no more complicated than that. Good luck with yours.
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You can sit in a buffet all day. I know, I've done it. Lots of people build their own lights, or may have come by a second hand one, so they do have a reason, and that IS a distinction. Good luck getting your 25 month old Area 51 repaired without shelling out the cost of the parts and doing the repairs yourself.
 
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deadgro

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
So, for a car, warranty means one thing, for a lamp it's something different? I didn't say I expected "a free light in perpetuity." I expect them to honor their TWO YEAR warranty that they advertise. Buffets don't offer warranties, and have nothing to do with this conversation. You can call it whatever you like, but you'll be wrong. You making false claims is doing a disservice to Area51.
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I'm confused. Is the argument that it doesn't qualify as a warranty because you have to install the parts yourself?

Generally there is a 30-90 day return period on products, and after that a 1+ year limited warranty, which by definition, limited means fixed or repaired, not replaced. Legally, mfgs don't have to warrant products or offer returns at all (varies by state) as long as their advertising is truthful. As such, there's no reason to complain about having to install new parts yourself with a51 lights.

However, I agree that a51's lifetime discount on replacement parts is a not really a warranty but rather a discount.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
deadgro said:
I'm confused. Is the argument that it doesn't qualify as a warranty because you have to install the parts yourself?

Generally there is a 30-90 day return period on products, and after that a 1+ year limited warranty, which by definition, limited means fixed or repaired, not replaced. Legally, mfgs don't have to warrant products or offer returns at all (varies by state) as long as their advertising is truthful. As such, there's no reason to complain about having to install new parts yourself with a51 lights.

However, I agree that a51's lifetime discount on replacement parts is a not really a warranty but rather a discount.
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My contention is that they neither repair, replace, refund, nor provide parts free of charge after 24 months. So the warranty is limited to 24 months. Since "at cost" is undefined and may include shipping, handling, processing, taxes, packaging, R&D, etc., we don't know if the price is actually less than they could be purchased elsewhere. I'm not trying to belittle Area 51, I'm just saying they don't offer a lifetime warranty. There are very few retailers that offer lifetime warranties on any product. Midas Mufflers offers a lifetime warranty, but only because 99.99% of their customers get a different vehicle in just a few years. There is an unmentioned benefit to their parts policy in that you will receive parts that are compatible with the rest of the components in your lamp. My understanding is that Area 51 offers a superior product..
 
D

deadgro

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
My contention is that they neither repair, replace, refund, nor provide parts free of charge after 24 months. So the warranty is limited to 24 months. Since "at cost" is undefined and may include shipping, handling, processing, taxes, packaging, R&D, etc., we don't know if the price is actually less than they could be purchased elsewhere. I'm not trying to belittle Area 51, I'm just saying they don't offer a lifetime warranty. There are very few retailers that offer lifetime warranties on any product. Midas Mufflers offers a lifetime warranty, but only because 99.99% of their customers get a different vehicle in just a few years. There is an unmentioned benefit to their parts policy in that you will receive parts that are compatible with the rest of the components in your lamp. My understanding is that Area 51 offers a superior product..
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Yeah I disagree its a warranty really, rather a discount. But after researching, limited and lifetime can be used and interpreted in any way a business chooses.

Regarding 'at our cost' you'd just have to trust their pricing. Jeff seems like a trustworthy guy to me so I wouldn't question the cost.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
deadgro said:
Yeah I disagree its a warranty really, rather a discount. But after researching, limited and lifetime can be used and interpreted in any way a business chooses.

Regarding 'at our cost' you'd just have to trust their pricing. Jeff seems like a trustworthy guy to me so I wouldn't question the cost.
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Digi-key and Mouser both list their retail and wholesale prices online, so it would be easy to check.
 
Hgrow

Hgrow

Active Member
Greengenes707 said:
No it doesn't and that is my point. It means they use crees, so reliable...but that is it...nothing about performance. Not every cree is the golden ticket. And even within the same model line(like xpe), the difference in top and low bins makes them basically completely different chips as far as your yields are concerned.

A51 is the only company confirming bin. And they only one worth trusting out of what you listed.
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Yeah , Got it . A51 with XPE Cool white with Red .
 
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