Obama banning AR15 ammo by command of the emperor!

[budlover13]

A bow?

Meh. I've considered it. Kicking around the idea of putting together an archery/airgun range in my back yard.

But I'll be damned if I give up my long guns.

 

[see4]

The sticking point, in my mind, is that once our country starts banning ammo capable of penetrating body armor, the door is open to more bans.

Here in Kali we have to hunt with non-tox ammo, almost all of which will penetrate soft body armor. If penetrating body armor is the standard, what am I supposed to hunt with?

On that same note, in my mind, is that once our country starts letting prayer in public schools, etc etc, the door is open to more church and state mixing.

See how that works both ways?

And btw, I think you are quite wrong, the door is not open to more bans. And they are not necessarily controlled entirely by the legislative branch. BATF makes rulings on firearms and weapons all the time, that never pass through the legislative branch.

 

[see4]

Still, 5.56 is not handgun ammo.

Not 'entirely' true. FNH makes ammo that is really close to that caliber.

 

[see4]

So, according to federal law it is illegal to ban AR15 ammo. An AR15 is NOT a handgun.

AR15 is a platform, with a wide spectrum of ammo that can be used, such as 9mm, which happens to be a "handgun" caliber.

According BATF, an AR15 with a barrel length less than 16" is consider a Short Barrel Rifle, IF the buffer tube is a stock buffer tube, if it is a pistol buffer tube, and the lower receiver is not registered as a "rifle", but "other" or "pistol", it is considered a pistol.

#justsayin.

 

[see4]

Standard military body armor will stop a 7.62 round. What 5.56 will penetrate body armor?

Nope. Most military issue body armor is Level II. I would put one in your chest, dead as door knob with my CZ 308 sniper, hand loaded to high CUPs.

308 is 7.62.

#justsayin.

And yes, some 5.56 / .223 ammo is armor piercing. I got some.

#pew-pew

 

[see4]

5.56 won't penetrate body armor, at least not the body armor used by US military (and police) personnel.

Not true. Please see above statement.

 

[budlover13]

On that same note, in my mind, is that once our country starts letting prayer in public schools, etc etc, the door is open to more church and state mixing.

See how that works both ways?

And btw, I think you are quite wrong, the door is not open to more bans. And they are not necessarily controlled entirely by the legislative branch. BATF makes rulings on firearms and weapons all the time, that never pass through the legislative branch.

BATF and CAL-FIRE practically begged California to not pass the lead ammo ban. BATF because much of the non-tox that is out there is more capable of penetrating body armor than lead-based ammo and CAL-FIRE because of fear of fire from errant rounds in dead grass.

 

[see4]

BATF and CAL-FIRE practically begged California to not pass the lead ammo ban. BATF because much of the non-tox that is out there is more capable of penetrating body armor than lead-based ammo and CAL-FIRE because of fear of fire from errant rounds in dead grass.

Yep. Heard about that.

For those boolit casters out there, run a google search what to mix with your lead composite to make an extremely lethal round. If the blast doesn't kill... this element will.

Scary shit.

 

[Harrekin]

Yes, the state has record of every firearm I own, even the one without a serial number. I bought them all from a gun show, or gun store, there is a mandatory instant background check through the sheriffs. They don't "make" me register shit, I choose to buy guns properly and go through the proper channels. I am not a psycho gun nut who thinks it is even remotely possible for the federal govt. to come take my guns. If you think they will come take your guns, you have serious mental issues and should not own one anyways.

Pretty sure it's illegal for them to retain the records from a background check for moar than a certain period of time.

 

[Doer]

Pretty sure it's illegal for them to retain the records from a background check for moar than a certain period of time.

That is correct. And why? In the US Consititution, the only records allowed to be kept on normal, law abiding, stay in the country citizens is the Census, and you cannot force participation in that.

This is why there is no National ID for Driving, Voting, or even for Birth. National Gun Registration? Not legal. National Vaccination records? Not Legal. Universal Heath Care? Not Legal.

This is a Federation of States, and the Royalists hate that.

 

[NoDrama]

Yes, the state has record of every firearm I own, even the one without a serial number. I bought them all from a gun show, or gun store, there is a mandatory instant background check through the sheriffs. They don't "make" me register shit, I choose to buy guns properly and go through the proper channels. I am not a psycho gun nut who thinks it is even remotely possible for the federal govt. to come take my guns. If you think they will come take your guns, you have serious mental issues and should not own one anyways.

So you live in Hawaii?

 

[NoDrama]

Pretty sure it's illegal for them to retain the records from a background check for moar than a certain period of time.

Form 4473 if a NICS check prevailed, seller will keep the form for 5 years. https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-12.pdf all the rules you need right there.

NICS background check is a yes or no, it does not involve any other information besides that.

 

[TubePot]

I own several Long arms without serial numbers.....

Form 4473 if a NICS check prevailed will keep the form for 5 years. https://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-12.pdf all the rules you need right there.

I think that's for the FFL holder. He needs to keep his transaction records for 5 years
The only records kept as far as I know are on handguns.

 

[Jimdamick]

Some steel jacketed rounds are considered armor piercing, the ATF put in a request and he authorized it.

Some green tips are steel jacketed, it is a wishy washy reason but makes sense. I wonder where it will all go instead of being sold to US civilians.

We'll just give them to Israel, they always seem to need ammo

 

[NoDrama]

I own several Long arms without serial numbers.....
I think that's for the FFL holder. He needs to keep his transaction records for 5 years
The only records kept as far as I know are on handguns.

Yep, that's what I meant, seller keeps the form for 5 years if they did a NICS check on the purchaser. 20 years if they did not. \
Thanks for pointing out my screw up.

 

[TubePot]

Yep, that's what I meant, seller keeps the form for 5 years if they did a NICS check on the purchaser. 20 years if they did not. \
Thanks for pointing out my screw up.

Long guns are sold from person to person in my state. A form is filled out and each person gets a copy, and that's it. No NCIS, so the Feds don't know squat.

I sold a rifle to a Cop last year, after paper work was done I handed him his copy and he threw it in the trash can. I said WTF, he said no one is ever going to ask me for it....

Now, if I want to sell a hand gun person to person the buyer has to have a purchase permit and a copy gets sent to the state. Those records are kept permanently.

I keep all my transaction records just in case....

 

[NoDrama]

Long guns are sold from person to person in my state. A form is filled out and each person gets a copy, and that's it. No NCIS, so the Feds don't know squat.

I sold a rifle to a Cop last year, after paper work was done I handed him his copy and he threw it in the trash can. I said WTF, he said no one is ever going to ask me for it....

Now, if I want to sell a hand gun person to person the buyer has to have a purchase permit and a copy gets sent to the state. Those records are kept permanently.

I keep all my transaction records just in case....

In my state you walk up to the guy, give him cash, shake hands, and be on your way. The only restriction is that both purchaser and buyer have to be from this state. The hand shake is the most important part of this ritual.

 

[see4]

I own several Long arms without serial numbers.....
I think that's for the FFL holder. He needs to keep his transaction records for 5 years
The only records kept as far as I know are on handguns.

Do be more accurate, any transfer is kept on record for a minimum 5 years, pistol, rifle or other. NFA transfers are also kept on FFL record for a minimum 5 years, but BATF at this point keeps permanent records.

 

[NoDrama]

but BATF at this point keeps permanent records.

Records of what?

 

[OddBall1st]

In my state you walk up to the guy, give him cash, shake hands, and be on your way. The only restriction is that both purchaser and buyer have to be from this state. The hand shake is the most important part of this ritual.

In my State, you give him the gun, he gives you cash, he points gun at you, you give him cash....