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az2000

Well-Known Member
apollo horticulture 300w?????
That's a step down from the A51. Diamond's are better regarded and the DS-100 would fit that space better for $300. I'd do the A51 and supplement.

I wouldn't do the cheap Chinese import unless money was tight. In that case I probably wouldn't do Apollo but TopLED instead because they have an online support forum which might reduce the possibility of being ignored if you have a problem.

What is your vertical space? Different lights need different distances to the canopy.
 

keebo3000

Well-Known Member
That's a step down from the A51. Diamond's are better regarded and the DS-100 would fit that space better for $300. I'd do the A51 and supplement.

I wouldn't do the cheap Chinese import unless money was tight. In that case I probably wouldn't do Apollo but TopLED instead because they have an online support forum which might reduce the possibility of being ignored if you have a problem.

What is your vertical space? Different lights need different distances to the canopy.

TOPled has an incomplete spectrum, it will grow your plants, it will flower your plants, but it does not have what you need to fully optimize plant growth. Scientists say that without far-red in the spectrum. it will be mediocre at best. so what ever light you choose make sure it has far red in it (740 nm). my two cents
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
TOPled has an incomplete spectrum, ... what ever light you choose make sure it has far red in it (740 nm). my two cents
Not sure if those are two unrelated thoughts or you're saying TopLED doesn't have IR. Their product description says it does.[1]

I've never owned one. It was one of my choices when I considered an inexpensive Chinese import. I ended up going with an Apollo 4 light bought on Alibaba because I could get a custom spectrum at no charge. I imitated Grow Northern's "rebel" spectrum. It grows well. Nothing special. (Not a reflection on GN's spectrum which uses Phillips Luxeon LEDs. I implemented the spectrum using less desirable Epiled the Chinese imports are made with.).

The primary reason TopLED remains high on my list is there are far more people on forums can be found using them than various knock-off import lights from Alibaba, eBay, etc. And, they have a support forum on 420mag. Should be somewhat better than dealing with someone via email. More community backing if there's a problem. (I know sponsorships on forums reduces the democracy of the community. But, compared to dealing with an eBay seller through email, a forum should be better.

But, I agree that it's not a high-end light. Not efficient. Not the best spectrum, etc. If I were new to LED, short on funds and couldn't build my own light, I'd do TopLED.

[1] standard spectrum= full spectrum: 430~440nm, 450~475nm 620~630nm, 650~660nm, IR, and white
 

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Amare Tech is looking for a small closet grower ~ 24 x 24 x 30+ to do a grow using their Solar Spec 100

Must be accomplished grower with no ties to other lighting companies

PM me with your capabilities


I hooked up a SS 150 over my seedlings clones yesterday (removed both ufos) and set up their SS 260 today. No plant yet, but it's very bright all the way to the floor ~ 5.5ft below

Pics in my Mini-Me thread
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Not sure if those are two unrelated thoughts or you're saying TopLED doesn't have IR. Their product description says it does.[1]

The primary reason TopLED remains high on my list is there are far more people on forums can be found using them than various knock-off import lights from Alibaba, eBay, etc. And, they have a support forum on 420mag. Should be somewhat better than dealing with someone via email. More community backing if there's a problem. (I know sponsorships on forums reduces the democracy of the community. But, compared to dealing with an eBay seller through email, a forum should be better.

But, I agree that it's not a high-end light. Not efficient. Not the best spectrum, etc. If I were new to LED, short on funds and couldn't build my own light, I'd do TopLED.

[1] standard spectrum= full spectrum: 430~440nm, 450~475nm 620~630nm, 650~660nm, IR, and white
Az, not that I have anything against the company, but I tried and documented the results of flowering with those Top LED reflector panels. Summary is at the top of the page, even if you don't read the whole thread, read this page. They're good for vegging, not for flowering, you'd probably flower as well or better with CFL's...
 

part time grower326

Well-Known Member
Someone who has experience with what you suggest if you had a cabinet that measured 35" tall,25" wide and 19 inches deep and you were going to scrog one or two plants to fill up the cabinet and money was tight so you could only spend right around $200 what would u buy?
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
I tried and documented the results of flowering with those Top LED reflector panels. ... They're good for vegging, not for flowering, you'd probably flower as well or better with CFL's...
There are people using those lights and getting at least good results. I don't see why your experience outweighs theirs. But, your experience definitely outweighs my non-experience opinion. :)

Is there anything you would recommend in that cheap import category? And, did you use it?
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
There are people using those lights and getting at least good results. I don't see why your experience outweighs theirs. But, your experience definitely outweighs my non-experience opinion. :)

Is there anything you would recommend in that cheap import category? And, did you use it?
I can only go by what I saw/experienced, and I'm not new to growing, with almost 30 years of growing MJ I know what to expect from a plant. They flowered my plants but there was no density/weight, 2 times in a row. I then switched lights to CMH, grew out a clone from the same plant I flowered under the Topled panels, used the same methods/medium/nutes/environment and produced 3 times the weight from the same plant/strain. It was imo a fair comparison in a controlled test. So they can produce flowers, if you're ok with say 1/2 to 1/3rd of what you could potentially get using the same amount of power/costs and better technology. As far as recommendations go on the low end LED's I would only comment on them if I'd seen them or experienced them first-hand, so no recommendations there. I'd recommend the CMH lights but they're too big for your space and require about 33" to the top of the canopy (13" to hang + 20" above the canopy) so you'd need say 60" height minimum. I'm sure they've been mentioned already, for your space, the A51's, Hans, Onyx, DIY 3070 COB's have been documented by many experienced growers here, I'd trust their capabilities/recommendations based on following many grows that were well documented by long term/respected members here.
 

Jah348

Active Member
I just ordered my two RW-75's my 36"x20" tent. In order to plan ahead of time, would you guys suggest the light be supplemented with something? I started thinking about it and 155W sounds pretty weak. Getting cold feet :shock:
 

hyroot

Well-Known Member
I just ordered my two RW-75's my 36"x20" tent. In order to plan ahead of time, would you guys suggest the light be supplemented with something? I started thinking about it and 155W sounds pretty weak. Getting cold feet :shock:

thats fine, number of watts is irrelevant. Its about spectral output. PAR and CRI. A51 uses top bin cree leds. So you have lower watts with higher par compare to other led companies. 2 RW 75's will cover a 2.5 x 3


9lb hammer under an A51 sgs 160 - 155w

6tag-210047452-740972047087589357_210047452.jpg WP_20140604_19_05_05_Pro.jpg
 
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az2000

Well-Known Member
I just ordered my two RW-75's my 36"x20" tent. In order to plan ahead of time, would you guys suggest the light be supplemented with something? I started thinking about it and 155W sounds pretty weak. Getting cold feet :shock:
Around 23w sq./ft seems to be what the RW's listed coverage comes out to. That's about what's often recommended here for higher-efficiency lights like A51. Your space comes out to 30w sq./ft. That extra might be unnecessary, but you shouldn't have to worry if you have enough.
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
As far as recommendations go on the low end LED's I would only comment on them if I'd seen them or experienced them first-hand, so no recommendations there.
That's fair. I'm assuming from grower photos that TopLED is as good as a typical Chinese import. I.e., what I see from TopLED users is similar to photos posted by common/generic import grows. Maybe they ran more power than you did. It's common for TopLED users to throw 40w sq.ft at their grow.

Assuming that to be true, the only reason I would lean toward TopLED is its online support forum. That community is better than private negotiations with an eBay reseller.

I definitely agree with you that the higher-end (higher-efficiency) lights are a better choice. But, only better if a person has the money. I can see circumstances where someone may want to test LED, doesn't have the height to accommodate a CMH, no money for better LED. They could supplement later with A19 if they need more w/sq. ft. Upgrade to more efficient light.
 

Jah348

Active Member
thats fine, number of watts is irrelevant. Its about spectral output. PAR and CRI. A51 uses top bin cree leds. So you have lower watts with higher par compare to other led companies. 2 RW 75's will cover a 2.5 x 3


9lb hammer under an A51 sgs 160 - 155w
yum how much space did you have there?

Around 23w sq./ft seems to be what the RW's listed coverage comes out to. That's about what's often recommended here for higher-efficiency lights like A51. Your space comes out to 30w sq./ft. That extra might be unnecessary, but you shouldn't have to worry if you have enough.
On second thought I'll be fine. If I would like more wattage I can always get another RW75 in there
 

GroErr

Well-Known Member
That's fair. I'm assuming from grower photos that TopLED is as good as a typical Chinese import. I.e., what I see from TopLED users is similar to photos posted by common/generic import grows. Maybe they ran more power than you did. It's common for TopLED users to throw 40w sq.ft at their grow.

Assuming that to be true, the only reason I would lean toward TopLED is its online support forum. That community is better than private negotiations with an eBay reseller.

I definitely agree with you that the higher-end (higher-efficiency) lights are a better choice. But, only better if a person has the money. I can see circumstances where someone may want to test LED, doesn't have the height to accommodate a CMH, no money for better LED. They could supplement later with A19 if they need more w/sq. ft. Upgrade to more efficient light.
Actually, second round which I documented here, I thought the same thing, not enough light/power first round. So when I went into flowering I threw 100W per plant, 300W in a 2x4', or 37.5W/sq. ft., got same results as the first run. After my experience and reading hundreds of forums/tech articles, I finally came to the conclusion it's not about raw watts, it's about efficiency and spectrum. That's what the higher end panels offer, why they cost more, and why they produce more, better quality/more efficient components. If you're on a tight budget, and you don't mind lower yields until you can afford something higher end, they're not expensive, try it and either build one or buy a higher end panel later? Not from experience, but from reading and watching some grows here, you may want to consider Vipar's if you're going to the low end. They seem at least a little better than the LG reflectors from Topled, although one I followed where he posted the actual/final yield, found the same thing, he wasn't happy with the final weight, a lot of fluff. He ended up using the Vipar for side lighting and threw a small hps in there for flowering, got much better results with that setup, you could consider that but it may be too hot for your space/overhead room. You'd have to run that by the hps folks as I don't know enough about operating hps in a small cabinet. Here's a link to his results with the Vipar, a good summary of the results/grow are on page 6/7 not the greatest, same thing I found, although he was running less wattage than I did.
 

guod

Well-Known Member
Not sure I understand.

Are you now on BML payroll?


Great for them if you are
I try my best...

Amare Tech is looking for a small closet grower ~ 24 x 24 x 30+ to do a grow using their Solar Spec 100

Must be accomplished grower with no ties to other lighting companies

PM me with your capabilities


I hooked up a SS 150 over my seedlings clones yesterday (removed both ufos) and set up their SS 260 today. No plant yet, but it's very bright all the way to the floor ~ 5.5ft below

Pics in my Mini-Me thread
all the best, all the time
 
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