White House Response to The New York Times Editorial Board's Call for Federal Marijuana Legalization

[Dr Kynes]

Personally, I think the place runs better with a one real live non-corporate piece of paper kind of breathing human person, one vote kind of approach.

The uber class bought the right to vote with their dollars- and now they earn more dollars than the other 90% combined.

you say that as if it is a bad thing!

Rule Of Acquisition #37 "The early investor reaps the most interest"

 

[NoDrama]

Weed is,
A drug,
Addictive,
Harmful in its use,
Impedes the ability to operate machinery,

so is sugar, and caffeine, and nicotine, and ..... mostly to the first time user. Over time, users are less affected in the motor skills department.

 

[Doer]

It takes practice. At first, only try this at home.

 

[SmokeyDan]

Weed is fun to smoke, habit forming and psychologically addictive to certain people but nobody needs to go on CBD's to transition off the ganja....

It's like I'm debating with young earth christians....

Psychology is where addiction lies. There is no other kind.

The "dope sick" phenomenon of other drugs is not addiction, but withdrawl from chemical dependence.

In order for our brain to get high on weed, it has to produce a chemical that has a structure a lot like it, and it does.

As we smoke more and more weed, our brains stop producing this chemical as the weed is supplying it. When we cut it off, cold turkey, our bodies no longer have that chemical in any form.

For marijuana it isn't severe, but it does exist.


The people who's job it is to study these things after they get educated extensively into how to do it, here is what they say...

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana
"Contrary to common belief, marijuana is addictive. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent, or 1 in 6) and among people who use marijuana daily (to 25-50 percent).

Long-term marijuana users trying to quit report withdrawal symptoms including irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which can make it difficult to abstain. Behavioral interventions, including cognitive-behavioral therapy and motivational incentives (i.e., providing vouchers for goods or services to patients who remain abstinent) have proven to be effective in treating marijuana addiction. Although no medications are currently available, recent discoveries about the workings of the endocannabinoid system offer promise for the development of medications to ease withdrawal, block the intoxicating effects of marijuana, and prevent relapse."

 

[SmokeyDan]

so is sugar, and caffeine, and nicotine, and ..... mostly to the first time user. Over time, users are less affected in the motor skills department.

Fucking exactly.

Where have you seen me take that step you seem to be defending and say "and that's why it should stay illegal."

No! My implication is that's why it should be legal.

.gov numbers say just 1 out of 6 people who smoke it (a fucking lot I assume) get any measurable addiction.

Weed is addictive. It doesn't addict everyone. And it should be legal.

But we shouldn't run from the reality of it. Embrace it and point out its relatively benign effects.

 

[Harrekin]

Tobacco vs. Marijuana
Like tobacco smoke, marijuana smoke contains cancer-causing chemicals. There are 33 cancer-causing chemicals contained in marijuana. Marijuana smoke also deposits tar into the lungs. In fact, when equal amounts of marijuana and tobacco are smoked, marijuana deposits four times as much tar into the lungs. This is because marijuana joints are un-filtered and often more deeply inhaled than cigarettes.

Marijuana smoke is also an irritant to the lungs, and frequent marijuana smokers can have many of the same respiratory problems experienced by people who smoke tobacco. These include coughing and phlegm production on most days, wheezing, bronchitis, and greater risk of lung infection.

http://www.lung.org/associations/states/colorado/tobacco/marijuana.html

International Journal of Cancer disagrees.

http://blog.norml.org/2014/06/23/study-habitual-marijuana-smoking-not-associated-with-increased-risk-of-lung-cancer/

 

[Dr Kynes]

It's like I'm debating with young earth christians....

Psychology is where addiction lies. There is no other kind.

The "dope sick" phenomenon of other drugs is not addiction, but withdrawl from chemical dependence.

In order for our brain to get high on weed, it has to produce a chemical that has a structure a lot like it, and it does.

As we smoke more and more weed, our brains stop producing this chemical as the weed is supplying it. When we cut it off, cold turkey, our bodies no longer have that chemical in any form.

For marijuana it isn't severe, but it does exist.


The people who's job it is to study these things after they get educated extensively into how to do it, here is what they say...

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/marijuana
"Contrary to common belief, marijuana is addictive. Estimates from research suggest that about 9 percent of users become addicted to marijuana; this number increases among those who start young (to about 17 percent, or 1 in 6) and among people who use marijuana daily (to 25-50 percent).

Long-term marijuana users trying to quit report withdrawal symptoms including irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which can make it difficult to abstain. Behavioral interventions, including cognitive-behavioral therapy and motivational incentives (i.e., providing vouchers for goods or services to patients who remain abstinent) have proven to be effective in treating marijuana addiction. Although no medications are currently available, recent discoveries about the workings of the endocannabinoid system offer promise for the development of medications to ease withdrawal, block the intoxicating effects of marijuana, and prevent relapse."

you got your metaphor backwards, YOU are the one quoting govt propaganda, which has long been proved to be just a tissue of lies crafted to suit their agenda as if it is gospel

"The DEA Says It, I Believe It, That Settles It!"
~you and michelle leonhart

NOBODY else believes that twaddle.

it isnt true, it never was true, it never will be true, as to your claim of "brain chemistry" that too is codswallop, THC effects the brain (and i for one am glad of it) but so does EVERYTHING ELSE, including sunlight, air, caffeine, heroin, the lycopene in tomatoes, the vitamin E in fish, the various alkaloids in chocolate, nicotine, water, salt, and heavy metals, this list goes on and on and on.

are all those "addictive" too?

when deprived of salt, the human body shuts down at an alarming rate, when deprived of water you die, nicotrine IS addictive, yet the chemicals it introduces into your brain are NOT "natural" and you dont need them. when nicotine is removed, your body rebels and demands more of that sweet sweet tobacco goodness, and if you do not return to flavour country, you eventually stop craving it

is there some "nicotine brain chemical" that your brain stops producing when you smoke? NO

there is no cannabinoid produced by your brain which is absent if you toke either. cannabinoids are SIMILAR to several hormones and neuro transmitters, but you dont stop producing them when you get wasted, and when you stop smoking dope you do not get the DT's, have convulsions or freak out, except through your own HABITUATED psychology.

you and the DEA are trying to create a mythology.

anyone who believes they are suffering from "Dope Withdrawal" is the victim of a reverse placebo effect, and your perfidy.

the govt has lied too often and too blatantly on this issue to have any credibility left, except among the Drug Warriors like you.

i remember when the claim "nicotine withdrawal is as bad as heroin withdrawal" was the story du jour, but that is so absurd only idiots believe it.

the "Gateway Theory" is similarly retarded, as are the stories of "Marijuana Overdoses" and people taking one puff and committing suicide, or innocent white girls submitting themselves to the predations of pimps, negroes and jazz musicians.

liars lie, and the govt's lies are ludicrous.

go sell your poison elsewhere mr ainslinger.

nobody here believes it.

 

[Rob Roy]

It would be light years better, yet you say "fuck it."

Medical mj is a permission licensed based arrangement, and I'm not a huge proponent, it is a step in the right direction.

In places like Colorado and Washington, the license is only needed to sale it, which is predictable in this country, we need licenses to sale anything, a business license.

Treating the slaves nicer and giving them longer breaks, fewer whippings etc did not make them "free" did it? It reduced the occurrences of abuse, but they still remained slaves didn't they? In the sense of harm reduction, it is better to beaten less, so sure it is a "step in the right direction" in that sense.

However, requiring legislative permission to "own" yourself sets and enforces a precedent that all things a person can do, must first be approved by the master. Which is just a matter of degrees of a kind of slavery. Free people do not need permission to act in peaceful ways, slaves do.



No, we do not NEED a license to sell anything. We are FORCED to have them. There is a significant difference there.


The license is not a necessary element of a consensual transaction....but it is an element of a controlling overbearing transaction orchestrated by others that insist on a cut of your every financial interaction.

 

[Rob Roy]

I'm also a proponent of drilling for oil, however I acknowledge the negative things about it, it pollutes.

In that same fashion I am a weed proponent, I'm just aware and honest about it's negative characteristics.

I appreciate that you believe honesty is important.

I honestly think anybody that wants to behave in a way that does not harm others should be left alone. if you agree with that, you'll admit that requiring a person to have permission from the state is a form of enslavement in a lesser degree.

 

[SmokeyDan]

you got your metaphor backwards, YOU are the one quoting govt propaganda, which has long been proved to be just a tissue of lies crafted to suit their agenda as if it is gospel

"The DEA Says It, I Believe It, That Settles It!"
~you and michelle leonhart

NOBODY else believes that twaddle.

it isnt true, it never was true, it never will be true, as to your claim of "brain chemistry" that too is codswallop, THC effects the brain (and i for one am glad of it) but so does EVERYTHING ELSE, including sunlight, air, caffeine, heroin, the lycopene in tomatoes, the vitamin E in fish, the various alkaloids in chocolate, nicotine, water, salt, and heavy metals, this list goes on and on and on.

are all those "addictive" too?

when deprived of salt, the human body shuts down at an alarming rate, when deprived of water you die, nicotrine IS addictive, yet the chemicals it introduces into your brain are NOT "natural" and you dont need them. when nicotine is removed, your body rebels and demands more of that sweet sweet tobacco goodness, and if you do not return to flavour country, you eventually stop craving it

is there some "nicotine brain chemical" that your brain stops producing when you smoke? NO

there is no cannabinoid produced by your brain which is absent if you toke either. cannabinoids are SIMILAR to several hormones and neuro transmitters, but you dont stop producing them when you get wasted, and when you stop smoking dope you do not get the DT's, have convulsions or freak out, except through your own HABITUATED psychology.

you and the DEA are trying to create a mythology.

anyone who believes they are suffering from "Dope Withdrawal" is the victim of a reverse placebo effect, and your perfidy.

the govt has lied too often and too blatantly on this issue to have any credibility left, except among the Drug Warriors like you.

i remember when the claim "nicotine withdrawal is as bad as heroin withdrawal" was the story du jour, but that is so absurd only idiots believe it.

the "Gateway Theory" is similarly retarded, as are the stories of "Marijuana Overdoses" and people taking one puff and committing suicide, or innocent white girls submitting themselves to the predations of pimps, negroes and jazz musicians.

liars lie, and the govt's lies are ludicrous.

go sell your poison elsewhere mr ainslinger.

nobody here believes it.

So let me get it straight....

Addiction specialists study thousands of users and come to the conclusion that if is addictive and has withdrawal.

You and your buddies smoke and think they're full of shit.

Got it. I'm sorry I doubted your expertise.

Your position is that since weed isn't as addictive as crack, it's not addictive.

Your position is that since weed withdrawal isn't as severe as that of alcohol or heroin, then it doesn't exist.

UncleBuck claims you are kind of retarded.

 

[ttystikk]

you say that as if it is a bad thing!

Rule Of Acquisition #37 "The early investor reaps the most interest"

Yeah, but underpaying their taxes is a crime against our country and we need to hold the Republican Party to task for suggesting America isn't worth paying taxes to and that tax dodging is somehow patriotic.

I'm no apologist for the Democrats, either; they've been only too happy to sell their constituents down the river as well.

 

[Dr Kynes]

So let me get it straight....

Addiction specialists study thousands of users and come to the conclusion that if is addictive and has withdrawal.

You and your buddies smoke and think they're full of shit.

Got it. I'm sorry I doubted your expertise.

Your position is that since weed isn't as addictive as crack, it's not addictive.

Your position is that since weed withdrawal isn't as severe as that of alcohol or heroin, then it doesn't exist.

UncleBuck claims you are kind of retarded.

"addiction specialists" are witch doctors who have only one diagnosis: Addiction!

youre addicted. he's addicted. she's addicted, your mom's addicted, EVERYBODY is addicted. now give him money and he will "cure you" though it will take years, and will never fully free you from the grip of whatever has you in it's clutches.

you are helpless against it, you are too weak to make your own decisions, and if you dont think you are addicted, thats just proof the "addiction" has you in it's viselike claws!

ohh you dont believe the bullshit story about weed addiction? well you are the most helpless addict i have ever seen! you should be forced into "rehab" where your "addiction" can be treated more effectively...

"addiction" and "addictive substances" are well defined, and weed doesnt fit, unless you want to change the definition, making it meaningless.

hit the googles and search for "marijuana addiction" and youll find tons of "rehab centers" trying to get your money, government propaganda, wild stories from "concerned moms" and nightmarish tales of depravity and death from "addiction specialists" but NO medical literature, no research papers on the mechanisms of "marijuana addiction", nor any clinical studies on "Marijuana Withdrawal Treatments" because it is a FICTION.

trying to claim cannabis is "just a little addictive" is bullshit, the only negative effect from weed is sometimes wastoids lose interest in everything except weed, but the same phenomena can be found among fans of "anime", comic books, sports teams, star trek, pokemon cards , occupy-tard slogans, 4 chan memes, or tumblr.

do those "alter brain chemistry" as well?

are "addicts" driven to suck dicks to score a new bulbasaur hologram card?

when deprived of their Inuyasha fanfiction, do addicts open their veins with razors or shoot up a school?

when tumblr goes offline, do addicts turn to "harder drugs" like 9gag or reddit?

you NEED marijuana to be addictive, or youll realize you wasted your life getting that "certified addiction counselor" diploma, and all the bullshit you have been slinging has been FAR MORE harmful to society than the innocuous weed you have been railing against.

maybe youre the "addict", "addicted" to the need to play mommy and tell others how they should live their lives.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Yeah, but underpaying their taxes is a crime against our country and we need to hold the Republican Party to task for suggesting America isn't worth paying taxes to and that tax dodging is somehow patriotic.

I'm no apologist for the Democrats, either; they've been only too happy to sell their constituents down the river as well.

dems have crafted more than their share of tax loopholes, scams, flim flams and hustles.

GE, one of the most aggressive tax loophole abusers, is run by a guy who also happens to be Barry O's top advisor on "tax reform" and economics.

your implication that the republican party is somehow to blame for the byzantine tax regulations which provide ample escape hatches for shady wall street operators is naive to say the least.

dems have their hands in wall street's pockets, just as deeply as the republicans, neither party is "more guilty" than the other in this regard.

 

[ttystikk]

dems have crafted more than their share of tax loopholes, scams, flim flams and hustles.

GE, one of the most aggressive tax loophole abusers, is run by a guy who also happens to be Barry O's top advisor on "tax reform" and economics.

your implication that the republican party is somehow to blame for the byzantine tax regulations which provide ample escape hatches for shady wall street operators is naive to say the least.

dems have their hands in wall street's pockets, just as deeply as the republicans, neither party is "more guilty" than the other in this regard.

Agreed, on all counts. The only difference is that Repubs are proud of it- just listen to Jeff Sessions' self righteous crowing sometime- while Dems are still a bit ashamed.

I fervently hope the shame gives us some leverage, although it doesn't seem likely.

 

[Dr Kynes]

Agreed, on all counts. The only difference is that Repubs are proud of it- just listen to Jeff Sessions' self righteous crowing sometime- while Dems are still a bit ashamed.

I fervently hope the shame gives us some leverage, although it doesn't seem likely.

the US has the highest corporate income tax in the world, bar none, without those many many loopholes, every busines in the country would flee to china, or vietnam, or mexico, instead of just shipping their manufacturing jobs there.

laying crippling taxes on businesses which have the ability to move elsewhere, is just begging them to move, as california is discovering.

the dems have been chanting their Eat The Rich slogan in their drum circle for decades, but when THEIR friends get caught in the pinch, they rush in to loosen the laws for their buddies.

the repubicans have long held that LOWER taxes will increase revenue, by attracting businesses, and encouraging re-investment, but any major change to the tax rates is rejected by the dems (who have been in control of the congress, senate or both nearly continuously since the 1930's) so adding a narrow loophole is often the best that republicans can do to lower the effective tax rate.

combine enough tiny loopholes together and youll get a tunnel you could drive a truck through, which is how GE, one of the most profitable companies in the world, managed to pay less than $2000 in taxes in 2012, and actually got a net refund in 2013.


whenever they can keep the govt from taking some of our money republicans crow about it, it's what they believe is best, and they are NOT ashamed of it.

the dems know damned well that sending more of OUR money to washington serves no purpose beyond enriching the bureacrats, politicians and their cronies, so they dont like to advertise their successes at ripping us off, unless they are speaking to a govt employee union, then they are always ready to take credit for fleecing the people to feed the bureaucracy.

 

[SmokeyDan]

"addiction specialists" are witch doctors who have only one diagnosis: Addiction!

youre addicted. he's addicted. she's addicted, your mom's addicted, EVERYBODY is addicted. now give him money and he will "cure you" though it will take years, and will never fully free you from the grip of whatever has you in it's clutches.

you are helpless against it, you are too weak to make your own decisions, and if you dont think you are addicted, thats just proof the "addiction" has you in it's viselike claws!

ohh you dont believe the bullshit story about weed addiction? well you are the most helpless addict i have ever seen! you should be forced into "rehab" where your "addiction" can be treated more effectively...

"addiction" and "addictive substances" are well defined, and weed doesnt fit, unless you want to change the definition, making it meaningless.

hit the googles and search for "marijuana addiction" and youll find tons of "rehab centers" trying to get your money, government propaganda, wild stories from "concerned moms" and nightmarish tales of depravity and death from "addiction specialists" but NO medical literature, no research papers on the mechanisms of "marijuana addiction", nor any clinical studies on "Marijuana Withdrawal Treatments" because it is a FICTION.

trying to claim cannabis is "just a little addictive" is bullshit, the only negative effect from weed is sometimes wastoids lose interest in everything except weed, but the same phenomena can be found among fans of "anime", comic books, sports teams, star trek, pokemon cards , occupy-tard slogans, 4 chan memes, or tumblr.

do those "alter brain chemistry" as well?

are "addicts" driven to suck dicks to score a new bulbasaur hologram card?

when deprived of their Inuyasha fanfiction, do addicts open their veins with razors or shoot up a school?

when tumblr goes offline, do addicts turn to "harder drugs" like 9gag or reddit?

you NEED marijuana to be addictive, or youll realize you wasted your life getting that "certified addiction counselor" diploma, and all the bullshit you have been slinging has been FAR MORE harmful to society than the innocuous weed you have been railing against.

maybe youre the "addict", "addicted" to the need to play mommy and tell others how they should live their lives.

Why are you getting hostile and adding things to my argument that aren't there.

I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives.

I'm not saying weed should be illegal.

I am saying that perhaps people who study weed smokers for a living have a better idea than the weed smokers themselves. Objectivity and all.

There is probably something to your point about the addiction specialists penchant for declaring everything addictive and stating only they can help. But that doesn't make them wrong.

Addiction can form to all sorts of things, sex and gambling form well established addictions, so can weed.

 

[ttystikk]

Our tax laws are simply rigged in favor of rich and megacorps- who of course have the money to pay to rub it in their favor.

That does not make it right.

Every country has the right to exact reasonable taxes for its operation and defense- and to tell companies that simply don't want to pay that they may not do business here.

To argue that we can't charge enough taxes is unpatriotic and supports the scam we're all suffering for. I'm not suggesting that's your aim, I'm pointing out that supporting the country that gives you a strong, stable market and a good workforce deserves companies that pay for these privileges. NO ONE gets a break, especially not the richest- but that's exactly the situation we've accepted in this country since the Reagan administration!

 

[Dr Kynes]

Why are you getting hostile and adding things to my argument that aren't there.

I'm not telling anyone how to live their lives.

I'm not saying weed should be illegal.

I am saying that perhaps people who study weed smokers for a living have a better idea than the weed smokers themselves. Objectivity and all.

There is probably something to your point about the addiction specialists penchant for declaring everything addictive and stating only they can help. But that doesn't make them wrong.

Addiction can form to all sorts of things, sex and gambling form well established addictions, so can weed.

so youre suggesting that i dont study weed, and instead i should take the advice of the govt functionaries who insist there is only ONE species of cannabis on the earth, and it's dope, or that "Marijuana cigarettes" will make darkies think they are as good as the white man, or one puff on a marijuana joint will drive me to suicide and make my girlfriend prostitute herself to pay her dope pusher, segvicing all manner of pimps, various negroes, and sinister jazz musicians?

and even though "addiction specialists" and their "addict" converts call EVERYTHING "addictive", we should take their word for it anyhow?

why am i "hostile"?

because you are selling a bullshit agenda, because you think lies sound more believable than the truth, and because youre simply full of shit.

i am not adding anything to your arguments, you have taken the position of the government, repeat their propaganda, and insist that they are the source authority on weed, so you get to drag around the baggage they have created with their half century of horseshit, lies and deceptions.

if you had a point that didnt come straight from the ONDCP, i cant spot it, so you have earned my hostility.

 

[reasonevangelist]

Why should anyone be forced to pay to support something that is designed to minimize their quality of life?

It's MY lunch money. I don't care if the bully don't eat!

 

[SmokeyDan]

Our tax laws are simply rigged in favor of rich and megacorps- who of course have the money to pay to rub it in their favor.

That does not make it right.

Every country has the right to exact reasonable taxes for its operation and defense- and to tell companies that simply don't want to pay that they may not do business here.

To argue that we can't charge enough taxes is unpatriotic and supports the scam we're all suffering for. I'm not suggesting that's your aim, I'm pointing out that supporting the country that gives you a strong, stable market and a good workforce deserves companies that pay for these privileges. NO ONE gets a break, especially not the richest- but that's exactly the situation we've accepted in this country since the Reagan administration!

Taxes are way too fucking low.

There are many who pay nothing. I don't want to fleece the poor and lower middle, but everyone ought to pay something. Ten percent of a poor persons income should go to tax. They could choose to pay it to the government or tithe to a religious organization. But everyone ought to pay 10 percent.

America became an economic powerhouse with over 70 percent top marginal rates.

Making 50 million dollars per year should be nearly impossible under a proper tax system.