Effect of Defoliation on Yield - Skywalker OG indoor scrog

[miccyj]

I'm happy to engage in conversation about this, sorry to OP about jacking your thread, I fully support your experiment.

No need to take this personally.

Being that this is about the 50th (lame) defoliation thread at this made-for-noobies-with-theories-who-have-no-common-sense website, it just gets boring. Most of you guys wouldn't understand the function of a leaf if it bit you on the ass.

Read my red sig line and have fun with your yanking activities.

Uncle Ben

Ben, I'm not talking about theories, I'm talking about results. The fact is, that I increase my total yield by removing fan leaves, I'm not claiming to completely understand why this happens, although I have a few theories, but the fact remains, I have measurable and repeatable gains of end product compared to not removing leaves at all.

Only in cannabis forums such as RIU will folks (always noobies with little to no education or experience) get the basic botanical concepts bass ackwards when it comes to flower/fruit/seed production.

I'm no expert by any means of the word, but I have been growing for the better part of 6 years and I like to think that I'm no longer a "noobie". I'm just trying to discuss, no need for name calling.

I think that the OP's experiment is sound, I dont see why there are so many ready to shoot it down before seeing the results.

 

[BenFranklin]

Ahh yes, of course, you claim that what you posted I read all wrong, when in fact there is nothing to read that could be interpreted any others way than how you typed it.

Then you bailed.

Care to elaborate? Ohh, that's right, you can't, your butthurt, so you bailed.

 

[miccyj]

Example - how many threads have you seen around here that complain that the lower leaves are yellow and finally die off? It's because most do not provide enough N, they have their NPK ratios all fucked up (because they haven't learned to stay away from the vendor's low N foods hype). So, what does the plant do? It pulls N from the lower leaves and sends it upstairs. Upper leaves stay green, lower leaves die.

UB

I haven't had this problem in quite some time.

 

[tortie]

Subbed!

 

[Hydroburn]

Care to elaborate?

Sure, I asked which will make a bud bigger: a higher up fan leaf producing energy at half efficiency that will reach the bud eventually; or the actual bud site itself with the same square inches of plant material as our fan leaf, except it would probably be like 2 small fan leafs, some sugar leaf, and bud material.

Which is a rhetorical question meant to point out how indoor defoliation is not such a cut-n-dry answer. I wasn't looking for a lecture on how bud doesn't photosynthesize; that completely misses the point of what I said... and actually makes up part of the question of - is a shaded bud site with fan leaf more or less productive than an unshaded bus site.

Outdoor should not be compared because the lighting scenario is completely different in just about every way. One is nuclear fission from a star 100 million times the mass of our planet traveling millions of miles through space, bending through our atmosphere as our planet spins like a top and rotates around the star. The other is a light bulb. The only thing they have in common is they both produce photons and heat.

Now, I'm out.

 

[miccyj]

Sure, I asked which will make a bud bigger: a higher up fan leaf producing energy at half efficiency that will reach the bud eventually; or the actual bud site itself with the same square inches of plant material as our fan leaf, except it would probably be like 2 small fan leafs, some sugar leaf, and bud material.

Which is a rhetorical question meant to point out how indoor defoliation is not such a cut-n-dry answer. I wasn't looking for a lecture on how bud doesn't photosynthesize; that completely misses the point of what I said.

Outdoor should not be compared because the lighting scenario is completely different in just about every way.

I also remember reading a thread on RIU not to long ago with a link to an article about larger fan leaves actually competing with buds for energy, I'm not sure how accurate the report was, but this re-enforces your point "indoor defoliation is not such a cut-n-dry answer".

And I think that hostility like this prevents people from wanting to experiment to find the answers for themselves, or to share their results if they do. Why try to share information if we just get slammed for it.

 

[BenFranklin]

Thank you.

 

[chuck estevez]

The butthurt is going to be fierce in this thread... I'm out.

seems like your Butt, Just got EXTREMELY hurt, which is why you are leaving. You just got defoliated by UB.

 

[waterdawg]

Sorry Oscar its happened!!! Slammed for trying something just to see for yourself . I dont get it??? Why not just sit back and relax, pull up a chair and watch? As stated by OP this was not a definitive test just a "lets see what happen's thing".

 

[waterdawg]

Quote from someone whi just had to try it for themselves lol.

"But I was "playing games" regarding 2 versus 4 years ago jest fer fun. I decided to do quite a bit of experimentation on cannabis years ago, potting techniques, soil chemistry, pest control, etc. rather than taking someone's take on it. 4 main colas is my ditty. "

Just saying it is fun to try things!!!

 

[waterdawg]

"Being that this is about the 50th (lame) defoliation thread at this made-for-noobies-with-theories-who-have-no-common-sense website, it just gets boring. Most of you guys wouldn't understand the function of a leaf if it bit you on the ass."

Why bother then? Why feel the need to even get involved. For that matter why are you even on this lame forum? I gotta ask because it seems like a big pain in your ass having to deal with all of these uneducated morons. Fyi i am a moron when it comes to growing pot and I've been growing outdoors for over 35 years now lol.

 

[Sparkticus]

"Being that this is about the 50th (lame) defoliation thread at this made-for-noobies-with-theories-who-have-no-common-sense website, it just gets boring. Most of you guys wouldn't understand the function of a leaf if it bit you on the ass."

Why bother then? Why feel the need to even get involved. For that matter why are you even on this lame forum? I gotta ask because it seems like a big pain in your ass having to deal with all of these uneducated morons. Fyi i am a moron when it comes to growing pot and I've been growing outdoors for over 35 years now lol.

Well said. Whatever I think I know is always subject to alterations and improvement . Considering anything to be "definitive" is detrimental to progress. Trying new things is how we learn, even if we're just soothing our stubborn nature by trying something others more experienced are telling us is wrong, lol. In fact, innovation usually happens when someone goes against popular opinion and thinks outside the box.

 

[sikkinixx]

Jeez even when trying to find out for yourself you get slammed!! I'm sure we can all agree this is not a definitive test to seek the truth lol. Its a fucking guy wanting to see for himself what the outcome will be, wow! If indeed the pruned/ defoliated plant does better is that a reason to start plucking leaves off of all your plants? I think not. Why can't you guys just sit back and watch lol. This reminds me of the big rock I have (had) in my yard. My dad would say that it cant be moved due to its massive size under the ground (been there for years lol) i finally dug it up to see and it went down 4", tied it to my truck and pulled it out! Kinda miss the rock .

Very true... but seriously, why'd you yank the rock out? People pay top dollar for big ass rocks for land scape "features." White people will buy anything.

 

[waterdawg]

Very true... but seriously, why'd you yank the rock out? People pay top dollar for big ass rocks for land scape "features." White people will buy anything.

It kept getting in the way lol. I live in the land of rocks. Want some?

 

[sikkinixx]

Fuck weed. Tryin' to hustle them rocks son!

It kept getting in the way lol. I live in the land of rocks. Want some?

 

[OscarLaGrouch]

I hate to disagree with uncle Ben, and I by no means know as much about the plant we all love so much, but I've been yanking leaves in flower for the better part of a year now and I've seen the results first hand, my bottom and mid growth is much more dense, and my tops don't seem to suffer for it at all.

Just my 2 cents.

miccy I'm gonna start yanking leaves right now. I was thinking to yank all damaged leaves, all leaves that create crowding, and I'm even debating taking the mature fans from the buds in late flower. I'm starting to yank leaves today. what is your vote on what to pull? here are some pics of tables A and B respectively and flowers too

 

[OscarLaGrouch]

No need to take this personally.

Being that this is about the 50th (lame) defoliation thread at this made-for-noobies-with-theories-who-have-no-common-sense website, it just gets boring. Most of you guys wouldn't understand the function of a leaf if it bit you on the ass.

Read my red sig line and have fun with your yanking activities.

Uncle Ben

I'm not taking it personally. I read it. I have given you nothing but respect. You have been mildly condescending and outrightly dismissive.
I'm no noob. I've pulled almost a g per w and I'm getting better all the time.
I like to yank leaves. I just wanna know if this hurts my yield, does nothing to my yield, or god-forbid, increases my yield.
WE WILL FIND OUT IN JULY.

 

[OscarLaGrouch]

Maybe we don't want to grow where any fool with a $200 quadcopter and camera can see your shit.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2606972/Thieves-using-heat-detecting-60-drones-bought-supermarkets-spot-cannabis-farms-break-steal-drugs.html

 

[OscarLaGrouch]

No.. the yield will be the same, and might be a little better, because all of the little kola's were able to get the same light, that they would not get, if you had the light over a 2 foot tall kola....

So all those side buds are further away from the light and unable to reach the full potential they could if they were closer to the light.

However. Then you end up with 5 lbs of tiny little one hit buds, and it's REALLY hard to harvest and trim, leaving you with 5 lbs of mediocre little buds that have been man handled repeatedly and harshly... Instead of one big 4 lb PRIMO kola.

Get it?

this is why I lollipop and mainline. I CONSISTENTLY have the biggest buds of anything on the shelf at any shop. why? cuz other growers are too lazy to prune their plants. they would rather trim popcorn, I guess.
that being said, I prune from the bottom to the top and from the main stem to the halfway point of the branch, concentrating my energy to the apical and lateral meristems.
the question I want to settle here is whether or not I should prune/defol from the top down?

top down or bottom up, guys?

 

[OscarLaGrouch]

This thread should really be constrained to discussions of indoor only, since outdoor/indoor scenarios are so different.

One thing is for sure, if you just let marijuana grow "wild" in your closet, you are not yielding 100% of the genetic potential. It's really very simple and pretty much any indoor grower will agree... removing old big fan leafs that shade bud sites absolutely makes the shaded nugs bigger. People assume fan leaves are 100% efficient at photosynthesis through the entire life span, but we shouldn't assume this.

Think about it... which is better: a 4" sq. fan leaf exposed to 3,600 lumens and photosynthesizing at 65% of it's maximum potential, OR, 4" sq. of fan and sugar leaf and bud material receiving 3,350 lumens a little lower down photosynthesizing at 95% max potential? In real life, who the fuck knows?

All we can do is say those nugs got noticeably fatter when I removed shade leafs, or I removed leafs and now my yield sucks. Pretty simple to see for yourself; don't be scared to try.

.
agreed. I can only speak to indoor cuz I have never grown outdoors.
I plan on removing leaves that are obviously performing at less than 100%. for instance:
~leaves that are withering underneath the canopy
~leaves that show signs of damage or stress
~leaves where the function of energizing growth has been taken over by a nascent (new) set of leaves)

so basically I am planning to defol from the bottom up. miccyj defols top down.
anybody have an opinion on this? I want to start with a consistent plan of attack.

the theory is that leaves are either a source or a sink. I plan to remove 'sink' leaves and leave the 'source' leaves