Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow

[Greengenes707]

Happy Sunday bro. Great update. Both sides look awesome. Huge difference in temps but that was expected. That blackberry nug looked delicious and nice bong. Digging the ash catcher, always a pain to suck ash through and muck up the water. So you're planning on 3 at 600's for the next run?

Eventually yes, 3 at600's. I might just buy the boards with the new chips on them from apache and upgrade my at120 to at200's myself. That would be the most cost effective way for me since I have a stockpile of 120's.

 

[kmog33]

Eventually yes, 3 at600's. I might just buy the boards with the new chips on them from apache and upgrade my at120 to at200's myself. That would be the most cost effective way for me since I have a stockpile of 120's.

What is the actual pull of the at600s?

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[Greengenes707]

What is the actual pull of the at600s?

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685W

 

[captainmorgan]

I'm a full spectrum LED grower and I've noticed with cuts that I've given a friend that grows under 1000 HPS that they can appear quite different by the end than mine look. His main cola's can look bigger and leafier but the LED buds seems to be much denser and resinous.

 

[kmog33]

685W

So if they didn't pull more yield than a 600 HPS there would be no point in swapping out. Except I noticed a bud quality is Better under leds. What at you pulling per light?

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[kmog33]

I'm a full spectrum LED grower and I've noticed with cuts that I've given a friend that grows under 1000 HPS that they can appear quite different by the end than mine look. His main cola's can look bigger and leafier but the LED buds seems to be much denser and resinous.

I've noticed the same thing on my leds too, much better but but not as much of it.

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[Greengenes707]

I'm a full spectrum LED grower and I've noticed with cuts that I've given a friend that grows under 1000 HPS that they can appear quite different by the end than mine look. His main cola's can look bigger and leafier but the LED buds seems to be much denser and resinous.

It's not a surprise to me about the size...but I was impressed when it was just the AT, so now to see that they could be even bigger...you get it. It's hard to use that as an arguing point with hps guys trying to convert...they don't want to loose anything just use less power to do the same. I understand if they are fluffy and big...but dense and big is what makes it hard to beat. Resin and quality is something that separates them...so we will see how it all plays out.

So if they didn't pull more yield than a 600 HPS there would be no point in swapping out. Except I noticed a bud quality is Better under leds. What at you pulling per light?

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I wasn't running at600's when I was running 600hps...I was running 8 at120's over 4x12 and also running 3 600hps(center one on a mover) over a 4x12 and was pulling the same from both sides...about 3/4lb per light/space(4x4). I needed more wattage on both sides but the fact was that I was getting the same result with less power. Then the new lights/chips came out and have stepped things up a bunch since then. But learned a lot while starting out about led's and where they are in their abilities. That is when I started pushing for the at least 600 true watts are needed to compete with 1000hps. And now that is proven and accepted by many. And also the at600 came out of that and now is the only light with the power and coverage to give 1000hps a run for it's money.
I pulled 503g of grade A off the last run with just the at600 solo over a 4x4 tray. That made me want to put them head to head to see what was the actual difference when all else is equal. And that brings us to where we are today.

 

[captainmorgan]

I've noticed the same thing on my leds too, much better but but not as much of it.

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I actually get a higher grams per watt then he does but we grow different styles.

 

[kmog33]

It's not a surprise to me about the size...but I was impressed when it was just the AT, so now to see that they could be even bigger...you get it. It's hard to use that as an arguing point with hps guys trying to convert...they don't want to loose anything just use less power to do the same. I understand if they are fluffy and big...but dense and big is what makes it hard to beat. Resin and quality is something that separates them...so we will see how it all plays out.

I wasn't running at600's when I was running 600hps...I was running 8 at120's over 4x12 and also running 3 600hps(center one on a mover) over a 4x12 and was pulling the same from both sides...about 3/4lb per light/space(4x4). I needed more wattage on both sides but the fact was that I was getting the same result with less power. Then the new lights/chips came out and have stepped things up a bunch since then. But learned a lot while starting out about led's and where they are in their abilities. That is when I started pushing for the at least 600 true watts are needed to compete with 1000hps. And now that is proven and accepted by many. And also the at600 came out of that and now is the only light with the power and coverage to give 1000hps a run for it's money.
I pulled 503g of grade A off the last run with just the at600 solo over a 4x4 tray. That made me want to put them head to head to see what was the actual difference when all else is equal. And that brings us to where we are today.

what strain were you running, cuz 503 is a good deal less than I pull off my 600s I do dwc and have fewer bigger plants(three month cycle) so that may have something to with it. But you're pulling about .75ish per watt with that I don't have a calculator to do 503/685 but that's I still feel like on thousand pulling the same ratio per watt would be 750 grams so it seem that this competes more on the 600 level than 1000.

What strain were you running on the 503 and veg time and all that goodness. Sorry I'm starting getting into leds so I'm trying to figure out what's each sacrifices and benefits. I feel like thinnest I've figured is HPS mains with supplemental or secondary leds or vise versa.

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[puffenuff]

Eventually yes, 3 at600's. I might just buy the boards with the new chips on them from apache and upgrade my at120 to at200's myself. That would be the most cost effective way for me since I have a stockpile of 120's.

That would be awesome if you can do that. Let me know if apache will hook you up with the boards and chips. Id love to upgrade my at120 as well. And then maybe rig up the 120 chips as side lighting somehow.

 

[Greengenes707]

I actually get a higher grams per watt then he does but we grow different styles.

Nice! That's what I am going for.

what strain were you running, cuz 503 is a good deal less than I pull off my 600s I do dwc and have fewer bigger plants(three month cycle) so that may have something to with it. But you're pulling about .75ish per watt with that I don't have a calculator to do 503/685 but that's I still feel like on thousand pulling the same ratio per watt would be 750 grams so it seem that this competes more on the 600 level than 1000.

What strain were you running on the 503 and veg time and all that goodness. Sorry I'm starting getting into leds so I'm trying to figure out what's each sacrifices and benefits. I feel like thinnest I've figured is HPS mains with supplemental or secondary leds or vise versa.

It's all documented in my other thread...in my signature. And on my youtube. It was blackberry and I got broad mites at the end of veg. saved it and pulled off a decent run...decent enough for me to put them head to head to see if it was me, the light, or the problems that held things back. DWC should always pull more...plus I have said in many updates I have never been a 2/light guy. That is also why they are going head to head...it's me vs me...so the grower is not a variable. For the people who do better than me hps to hps...they will do better than me with led's too.

That would be awesome if you can do that. Let me know if apache will hook you up with the boards and chips. Id love to upgrade my at120 as well. And then maybe rig up the 120 chips as side lighting somehow.

I haven't even talked to them about it...but I have 9 that I would change...and then 2 all whites that I would leave as 120's.
I will run it by them and see what they say.

 

[kmog33]

Nice! That's what I am going for.

IT's all documented in my other thread...in my signature. And on my youtube. It was blackberry and I got broad mites at the end of veg. saved it and pulled off a decent run...decent enough for me to put them head to head to see if it was me, the light, the problems that held things back.


I haven't even talked to them about it...but I have 9 that I would change...and then 2 all whites that I would leave as 120's.
I will run it by them and see what they say.

Cool I'll check it out.

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[Greengenes707]

Mixed soil up today, (6) 2cuft bags...3 coco, 3 420mix...Plus amendments. Everything but the castings are in it. In addition to what's in the pics, I put lime, mycorrhizae, epsom salt, diatomaceous earth, some of my compost tea mix.
I need to get the castings(25lbs) tomorrow. I think I'll pick up some pure N guano too. Plus I will be using a fish protein in veg with my tea. Next run is going to be a very productive real organic run. Everything they will need should be packed in the soil from the get go and the teas will keep it living and thriving the whole time.

My outdoor growing is what has gotten me to the point that I am at. I have tried to change too many things over the last couple years indoors. I didn't have a place to mix and have been lazy since I got this place. But no more of that, nothing is as good as a great soil mix IMO. I am getting back to just growing like outdoor...just inside. My garden is big enough that I can produce some big girls and my soil is what is going to let them do that all the way through effortlessly.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Your adding lime on the west coast? Plus adding Epsom salts on top of it?

Too much mag IMO...........be safe GG

 

[Greengenes707]

Your adding lime on the west coast? Plus adding Epsom salts on top of it?

Too much mag IMO...........be safe GG

Dolimite lime to stabilize/buffer the PH. And I always add epsom salt. They account for each other and are in reason.
It's a pretty balances mix. I haven't had problem in the past. This run I wish I had put more epsom salt in.
What does the west coast have to do with it???

 

[PSUAGRO.]

All the soil west of the rockies is basic/alkaline and all the soil east of the rockies is acidic as a general guide taught in school....soil bags have heavy shipping costs so it's always a local source for the brand.

Look at gypsum/crustacean meals as a better supplement IMO

Too much mag tightens the soil and locks Cal, but if it works for you.......great

 

[kmog33]

All the soil west of the rockies is basic and all the soil east of the rockies is acidic as a general guide taught in school....soil bags have heavy shipping costs so it's always a local source for the brand.

Look at gypsum/crustacean meals as a better supplement IMO

Too much mag tightens the soil and locks Cal, but if it works for you.......great

Doesn't this only really apply if you're planting in the ground? I'd assume foxfarm on the east coast is the same as out here...

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[Cococola36]

Eventually yes, 3 at600's. I might just buy the boards with the new chips on them from apache and upgrade my at120 to at200's myself. That would be the most cost effective way for me since I have a stockpile of 120's.

So if that plan works, you can basically turn 8 of your lights to at 200"s and in essence have 2 more at600 with better coverage? Considering the obvious that an at600 consists of 4 at200s. Not bad having all those lights to begin with. If that at600 pulls even close to the gpw of the 685 it pulls I'm switching my 1000 watt out in between my 860 cmh's. I think the 3 lights together could do a great job for my needs. And shit I'll still have a spare 5x5 area for my 1000 watt to mess around with

 

[Greengenes707]

All the soil west of the rockies is basic/alkaline and all the soil east of the rockies is acidic as a general guide taught in school....soil bags have heavy shipping costs so it's always a local source for the brand.

Look at gypsum/crustacean meals as a better supplement IMO

Too much mag tightens the soil and locks Cal, but if it works for you.......great

You learn something new everyday.
DE has calcium. There was a phos guano with calcium I passed up.

Doesn't this only really apply if you're planting in the ground? I'd assume foxfarm on the east coast is the same as out here...
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My soil is from a local yard...so I would guess it applies pretty well here. But either way I have always had success with this recipe and this local soil.

So if that plan works, you can basically turn 8 of your lights to at 200"s and in essence have 2 more at600 with better coverage? Considering the obvious that an at600 consists of 4 at200s. Not bad having all those lights to begin with. If that at600 pulls even close to the gpw of the 685 it pulls I'm switching my 1000 watt out in between my 860 cmh's. I think the 3 lights together could do a great job for my needs. And shit I'll still have a spare 5x5 area for my 1000 watt to mess around with

That sounds awesome. I think It should do that. the spectrum and power would be there no doubt.

I think that I have good argument for them to at least do it for me. 1) I have spent my plenty on them, when they were not what they are now. 2) if they want me to blow up my room and use them, I am showing that I need the best tech to do it.

Not sure how easy a aboard switch is...but I wold pay for it.

 

[joe macclennan]

first that's a great update man and as usual a great comparison grow. mad props to ya.

but where do you come up with the figure that it is 60% less heat? I mean how do you determine this?

and your estimate of an hid bulb running @ 1500 degrees f is waaaay off man ...not even close. If they ran that hot it would melt the reflector.