I have defoliated my plants in the hope to increase my yeild :)

[SunJ]

http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/corn/production/management/planting/frost.html

Might not be exactly what you are looking for, but an interesting read nonetheless. Took only a few seconds with this Google thing you mentioned earlier...

"It appears that if defoliation due to frost is greater than 70% then replanting may prove beneficial; if defoliation is less than 70% it may not increase yields." Direct quote from that page.

 

[SunJ]

they do not give up their energies either in my understanding.....they PRODUCE the energy.

but you are right, sorta. Later on they are not important to vertical growth, they then become important to the growth of fruit

Which is why many growers find that a light defoliation is beneficial. Perhaps you should brush up on how energy is produced and stored and then redistributed for a better understanding, as they do indeed, "give up their energies".

 

[SunJ]

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/248423366_Late_defoliation_and_wheat_yield_Little_evidence_of_post-anthesis_source_limitation

I find this last sentence in the summary very revealing...

The results suggested that grain yield of the cultivar used under the condition tested is more controlled by sink than source strength.

 

[joe macclennan]

http://www.agronext.iastate.edu/corn/production/management/planting/frost.html

Might not be exactly what you are looking for, but an interesting read nonetheless. Took only a few seconds with this Google thing you mentioned earlier...

"It appears that if defoliation due to frost is greater than 70% then replanting may prove beneficial; if defoliation is less than 70% it may not increase yields." Direct quote from that page.

ok so I read it. correct me if I misunderstood but it basically said that after defoliation from frost NONE of the plots produced more yes? I don't get how this is a win for defoliation techniques.

Which is why many growers find that a light defoliation is beneficial. Perhaps you should brush up on how energy is produced and stored and then redistributed for a better understanding, as they do indeed, "give up their energies".

but if they are removed entirely there is no energy to produce or "give up" correct? Because the leaf is gone entirely?

 

[SunJ]

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/jrm/article/viewFile/12468/11739

This one has a graph on page 3 for you to look at... have you tried any of this "research" stuff you recommended to me?

 

[joe macclennan]

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/248423366_Late_defoliation_and_wheat_yield_Little_evidence_of_post-anthesis_source_limitation

I find this last sentence in the summary very revealing...

The results suggested that grain yield of the cultivar used under the condition tested is more controlled by sink than source strength.

and I found this revealing as well.



Significant changes were not observed for grain protein content between defoliated and control plots.

 

[SunJ]

If they are gone, entirely? No. But done correctly, with healthy plants, the other leaves have no problem compensating for the loss of a leaf here and a leaf there. How many leaves do you think have been lost over the centuries to deer and other natural elements out in the wild? Smart plants would find a way to make this beneficial, no?

 

[SunJ]

You're comparing "grain protein content" vs. yield... now you're trying to change your losing argument...

 

[joe macclennan]

https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/index.php/jrm/article/viewFile/12468/11739

This one has a graph on page 3 for you to look at... have you tried any of this "research" stuff you recommended to me?

ok so I guess we'll go back to the dick comments. so here is one. The onus is not on me to prove that defoliation is beneficial. It is on those who want to tout it as the next coming of christ......like you apparently.

and none of those links prove otherwise. Although I haven't read the last one entirely yet it is about grasslands and pastures in arid or semi dry areas....a pretty far fucking cry from a hydroponic grow room but whatever. I'll read it through because there could be parallels I am missing here.

continue with the dick comments if it makes you feel better. I'll go back to them too and we will just get this thread closed if you like....

your fucking call

 

[joe macclennan]

You're comparing "grain protein content" vs. yield... now you're trying to change your losing argument...

no I am not. I simply missed that.

ME BAAAD!

my losing argument lol. where are all those stickied threads again?

 

[SunJ]

I challenge you to find a place where I resort to name calling. I'm simply pointing out that I'm giving you evidence that you asked for and then refuse to acknowledge and then continue to argue with anyone and everyone. I've laid out why I have my opinions, and you're right, that's about a "different environment".... But it's dealing with the SAME PRINCIPLE! I'm sorry you cannot connect the dots for yourself.

I happen to live in a very dry and arid environment and I don't run hydroponics. All the more reason that the way I grow WORKS FOR ME! This is what you can't seem to understand. Not everyone is you and is going to think like you. If you want to change peoples minds and show them how superior you are, give them a little more meat to chew on.

I wish you the best in all your endeavors. I don't mind if the thread is closed. You made your points, and I made mine. I also made several friends and apparently only 1 enemy. So I'm doing something right.

Peace!

 

[joe macclennan]

If they are gone, entirely? No. But done correctly, with healthy plants, the other leaves have no problem compensating for the loss of a leaf here and a leaf there. How many leaves do you think have been lost over the centuries to deer and other natural elements out in the wild? Smart plants would find a way to make this beneficial, no?

so why would a plant needing to compensate for the loss of vegetation be good?

 

[Alexander Supertramp]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruning#Types_of_pruning



[video=youtube;fI7d7kE4hng]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI7d7kE4hng[/video]

Just so you understand, I don't condone completely cutting every leaf off the plant, I haven't said once that that is a good idea. The information above is why I do what I do..

Get it?

Training techniques date further back than dumbasses growing in their moms house.

"right after flowering and right into set" opening statement of your video. If you equate fruit with a calyx/bract. Well then get yourself a helmet and heres your sign...

edit:airflow and light equate to no mold on the grapes that eventually arrive in your kitchen...

It must just be me...but all of those grape clusters are hanging underneath the canopy. Dont buds grow above?

 

[joe macclennan]

I challenge you to find a place where I resort to name calling. I'm simply pointing out that I'm giving you evidence that you asked for and then refuse to acknowledge and then continue to argue with anyone and everyone. I've laid out why I have my opinions, and you're right, that's about a "different environment".... But it's dealing with the SAME PRINCIPLE! I'm sorry you cannot connect the dots for yourself.

I happen to live in a very dry and arid environment and I don't run hydroponics. All the more reason that the way I grow WORKS FOR ME! This is what you can't seem to understand. Not everyone is you and is going to think like you. If you want to change peoples minds and show them how superior you are, give them a little more meat to chew on.

I wish you the best in all your endeavors. I don't mind if the thread is closed. You made your points, and I made mine. I also made several friends and apparently only 1 enemy. So I'm doing something right.

Peace!

ummm okay, I never said name calling. Now you are making shit up to start another fight...nice

I said dick comments. which is precisely what you did. If you can't figure that one out...well too bad. and to my knowledge you are yet to prove any points. Other than you follow some other growers thread who you like. You posted a few mediocre links to studies that didn't prove anything about defoliation being better...and that is your argument yes? that defoliated plants produce more? You haven't gotten there yet.....keep trying.

and i'm sure you don't mind if the thread is closed as your continuing support of an absurd practice makes you look kinda bad....but anywhoo...back to reading the last link on grasslands I do so enjoy reading university study links

 

[Widow Maker]

I'm going to close this. It seems the argument has gotten off topic. There is a difference in topping/training/super cropping and butchering your plant. It seems no one can decide which one they are talking about and new readers may be picking up bad advice. I don't want to see that. I'm not some scrub that just busted out my first qp of some homegrown. I'm around 22-23 year vet. I have tried topping, fiming, supercrop, training, Scrog bla bla bla. Top your plant if you want. Definitely cut the under brush. But don't hack your plant to get these results. And it's takes 4 years to get a degree. What's 22 years get me?

/thread